Guest Roka Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 G'day, I read with interest an old post topic on debarking surgery for dogs. There is a website with good information on this procedure at: http://www.naiaonline.org/articles/article/debarking-bark-softening-myths-and-facts Basically what is says is that this procedure which is commonly called "Debarking" of dogs is actually "A more simple procedure then removing the uterus in spaying or removing the testicles in neutering". I am considering this procedure as my dog barks a lot and has a very high pitched loud bark. He is well cared for and goes for walks every day. I have tried everything and am at my wits end. My fear is that neighbors will complain about his barking and I will be fined by council or else my dog will be taken away from me and put to sleep. Softening his bark with this simple surgery seems a much better option they having to cope with complaints by neighbours, the local council fining me (Over $3,000) and also threatening to take my dog away only to kill him. Quoted from city council leaflet on barking dogs in the city of Cessnock NSW: http://www.cessnock.nsw.gov.au/resources/file/Rangers/Leaflet.pdf stop barking dogs 11 If the court is satisfied that the dog is causing an offensive noise, or that the noise is likely to recur, it may order the owner to stop the noise within a specified time or prevent a recurrence. If the person fails to comply with the order, they could be prosecuted and be liable for a maximum penalty of $3300. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roka Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 For example, if you complain about a noisy dog, the council officer can investigate to substantiate your complaint. This may include collecting evidence such as written statements from neighbours, asking you to keep a diary of when the noise occurs, and visiting the property where the dog is kept (check with your council about what evidence is required). If the complaint is substantiated, the officer can issue a nuisance order , specifying aspects of the dog’s behaviour that must be prevented. This order cannot be appealed against. The order remains in force for six months. If the owner does not comply with the order, the offender is liable for a fine of up to $880 for the first offence and $1650 for the second and each subsequent offence. Use the Protection of the Environment Operations Act Seek a prevention notice Under sections 95–100 of the Protection of the Environment Operations Act 1997 (POEO Act), a council officer can serve a prevention notice on the owner of a noisy dog. Conditions that may be added in a prevention notice include providing regular food and water facilities, sufficient space and freedom, and adequate shelter. The notice may also include taking some action against barking. The notice can also apply where there are several dogs involved and a specific noisy dog cannot be identified. The prevention notice has a 21-day appeal period. The POEO Act allows local council officers to issue on-the- spot fines of $750 to individuals ($1500 to corporations) who breach a notice. If proceedings are taken to a local court, and the offender is prosecuted, they may be liable for a maximum penalty of $22,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaneLover233 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 My friends had their Pyrenees Mountain Dog "de-barked" as their neighbours would complain NON STOP about his barking to the point that the council were going to destroy the dog on the next occassion. As it is illegal in QLD they drove across the border to a lovely NSW vet who did the procedure for about $450 I think and the dog was fine, didn't seem to be in any discomfort at all and was happier from then on as he wasn't getting told off for barking. Funny thing was, the jerk neighbours KEPT COMPLAINING even though there was no noise!! Some people hey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 My friends had their Pyrenees Mountain Dog "de-barked" as their neighbours would complain NON STOP about his barking to the point that the council were going to destroy the dog on the next occassion. As it is illegal in QLD they drove across the border to a lovely NSW vet who did the procedure for about $450 I think and the dog was fine, didn't seem to be in any discomfort at all and was happier from then on as he wasn't getting told off for barking. Funny thing was, the jerk neighbours KEPT COMPLAINING even though there was no noise!! Some people hey! Makes you wonder if it was barking excessivly in the first place... and what measures were taken before the de-barking to try and stop it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwifeathers Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I dunno if the procedure was done wrong or something but I've seen cocker spaniels and shelties at shows that have been de-barked and they make the most awful loud rasping-bark noise instead. Would rather have the normal barking myself, but if its that or your dog is seized and put to sleep and de-barking is your only option left then I don't see why you shouldn't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowanbree Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Have you actually had complaints? I have debarked dogs in the past and currently own one debarked dog but would only do it if I really had to, not as a precaution. They can still bark but the tone changes and depending on the vet you use and their experience the volume is about 1/2 to 1/4 of the former volume. The most important thing for a successful debark is to only use an experienced vet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roka Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) Hi, I'm the lady who originally posted this... I am a mature age lady (58) retired and living on a very limited budget. I SIMPLY DON'T HAVE THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS LAYING AROUND READILY AVAILABLE TO BE ABLE TO PAY THE LOCAL COUNCIL (OR WHATEVER GOVERNMENT AGENCY DEMANDS THE MONEY)IN FINES OVER MY DOG BEING A DOG AND BARKING. I now live on a small rural property in regional rural Australia but may move to a house on a smaller house block in a more densely populated area soon as we are needing to "Downsize" due to my husband being ill recently and taking a redundancy from the public service in Canberra. My dog is a small dog (JRT x Mini Foxy) and will bark at anything that seems a threat of which there are many here including SNAKES. Just the other day a brown snake came slithering towards his kennel and he barked up a storm which I am very grateful for. He seems to be wanting to warn me of dangers that come near to the house. **** I DON'T LET HIM JUST RUN LOOSE BECAUSE OF THE BROWN SNAKES THAT FREQUENT OUR PROPERTY BEING RIGHT ON THE END OF A SMALL RURAL TOWN**** If I didn't take this precaution he would be dead as I am a good 45 minutes from a reliable vet and he is a very small dog so wouldn't last long anyway after being bitten. Due to the 40c + degree weather we've been having for over 2 weeks now I keep my dog indoors with me so that he is comfortable in the air conditioning and safe from Brown Snakes. However, keeping him indoors and not being able to walk in 40+ degree heat (note that I am a mature age woman pushing 60 and cannot tolerate the heat!) has exacerbated his barking problem over the last two weeks. Added to all the above I'm the lady who has gotten on all "The Locals" nerves due to my wanting people to keep their dogs on lead whilst out walking their dogs in the local park because I've been run up to and over by too many loose big dogs off lead! When will this heat ever end?! :'( Edited February 6, 2014 by Roka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 If you want to debark him go ahead and do it. You don't need a forum of strangers to give you their blessings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I think debarking has its place :) AFAIK the procedure can only be done after all other measures have been tried .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roka Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 (edited) P.S And, added to all the above... I have to try and cope with a very cranky and sick 63 year old husband who, when my dog starts barking, barks at ME and says "If you don't stop that dog barking I'm going to go out and kill that THING!" >:'( Which I don't think he'd really do but the threat of it alone on top of everything else I've had to cope with recently is giving me A NERVOUS BREAKDOWN!!!!! (Sobbing :'() Edited February 6, 2014 by Roka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Why does he bark? Is he bored, or wanting attention, or wanting to play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roka Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 If you want to debark him go ahead and do it. You don't need a forum of strangers to give you their blessings. I don't need blessings. I need some support which is what I thought this forum was here for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roka Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Why does he bark? Is he bored, or wanting attention, or wanting to play? Recently I think, from not getting enough exercise due to the 40+ c degree weather. Please read all of my post before you reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roka Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Anyway, no I don't need your blessings. I will discuss this with my vet and if after having exhausted all other options and if my vet thinks it is a humane solution will resort to the surgery. BTW, I know I didn't need to post this here. However, this is a forum and I thought discussion was it's main purpose. \ Probably a bad idea to have joined it in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Why does he bark? Is he bored, or wanting attention, or wanting to play? Recently I think, from not getting enough exercise due to the 40+ c degree weather. Please read all of my post before you reply. Sorry for trying to be of help. I won't bother again. Good luck getting anything here from anyone with that attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 My friends had their Pyrenees Mountain Dog "de-barked" as their neighbours would complain NON STOP about his barking to the point that the council were going to destroy the dog on the next occassion. As it is illegal in QLD they drove across the border to a lovely NSW vet who did the procedure for about $450 I think and the dog was fine, didn't seem to be in any discomfort at all and was happier from then on as he wasn't getting told off for barking. Funny thing was, the jerk neighbours KEPT COMPLAINING even though there was no noise!! Some people hey! Makes you wonder if it was barking excessivly in the first place... and what measures were taken before the de-barking to try and stop it... With a Pyrenean - stopping them barking can be VERY difficult and most measures tend to not be successful if they are a chronic barker. It is a breed bred to bark to warn predators away and some take this role more seriously than others. Generally anti barking collars (of ANY kind) have minimal impact and they tend to bark straight through any discomfort/pain. Bringing inside generally helps, but they cant be inside 24 hours a day. They can actually get quite stressed sometimes if prevented from barking as they feel they are being prevented from doing their job. Sure you can say 'don't own a Pyrenean' but in a large number of situations this can be managed with minimal complaints. But some do draw the short straw with a barker (and generally breeders will make this trait well known to prospective owners!). In reality, Bark softening for this breed at least can be a real option and I have met several bark soften Pyrs over the years. They are happy and less stressed because they can now bark when they want and the owners are happy and less stressed as they are not dealing with worry over complaints and stressed neighbours.Do I think other methods of management should be tried first? Yes I do, and there are some management techniques that can be used with this breed that when started as a puppy may help reduce barking issues. But IMO it should not be discounted as an option that can be beneficial for both the dog and the owner. BUT Dog owners considering bark softening should make themselves well aware of the laws and regulations that exist regarding this procedure. For example in Victoria where dogs which have been debarked can not be exhibited (eg such as in a show or obedience trial or even perhaps at some other type of event that you want to take part in with your dog). We should all remember the case not so long ago of the breeder (Judy Garde) who had her dogs confiscated and was charged/taken to court and put through no end of stress and hurt simply because she had had some of ther dogs debarked (some in NSW if I remember correctly), and they had attended a dog show. So any recommendation for the procedure must be made with extreme care. To the OP, if you have not had complaints yet, I would think very seriously about whether bark sofening is a positive move or not at this point in time given your whole situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 If you want to debark him go ahead and do it. You don't need a forum of strangers to give you their blessings. I don't need blessings. I need some support which is what I thought this forum was here for. can't help you with the heat or the cranky husband. You sound pretty cranky yourself, maybe you should have a cool shower or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Why does he bark? Is he bored, or wanting attention, or wanting to play? Just read some of the posts that arrived when I was writing mine and this was a good point. Noting how the barking has increased while he has been more confined, perhaps some work on providing mental stimulation for him may help? Training, tricks, treat balls and kongs, other interactive toys are all things that can be done indoors and even with you sitting down for the most part. It may help give him some of the stimulation he needs which he is currently getting by barking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Why does he bark? Is he bored, or wanting attention, or wanting to play? Just read some of the posts that arrived when I was writing mine and this was a good point. Noting how the barking has increased while he has been more confined, perhaps some work on providing mental stimulation for him may help? Training, tricks, treat balls and kongs, other interactive toys are all things that can be done indoors and even with you sitting down for the most part. It may help give him some of the stimulation he needs which he is currently getting by barking. That was going to be my suggestion if the OP has noticed any reasons for the barking, but since I was just instructed to not bother replying again unless I read her posts first, I wasn't going to waste my time with any suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliwake Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I think you should not panic about fines. If nobody has actually complained yet, I believe there are a fair few processes that need to be gone through before the council would actually be able to fine you - after receiving a complaint. I think you're jumping the gun and stressing too much. I would consider the surgery IF/WHEN you receive complaints, and in the meantime just do your best to keep him occupied and happy... Just think - if he'd been de-barked, you might not have been able to save him from the snake the other day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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