Elise+Hudson Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I have recently had my first taste of rally-o at a new obedience club and really enjoyed it! There area a few trials coming up soon and I would love to have a go at some stage. What things do you guys practice at home for Rally trials? And is there any advice for the 270-360 left turns and getting the dog back? as well as how to train the finish left? We have only been learning an obedience finish around the back of the handler, so this is different for him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Glad you're having fun - and one of the nice things about Rally is that it's very doable to practise at home. You can download the signs - most of us use a home laminator to laminate them and then some cheapo clipboards as stands - you only need a few at a time. (And of course you can practise without the signs. For a lot of the things you're asking about, a lot of rear-end awareness work using a perch box (or disc/bowl is even better), to teach the dog to use it's rear-end to move its body around - the front feet stay on the disc/perch. Once you have this sort of rear-end stuff happening fluently, you'll find that the dog can maintain position on turns (for obedience as well, obviously - and rear-end awareness and training is also really valuable for agility.) Platforms are also your friends, for getting nice straight fronts and tight finishes - both sides. The quality on this clip is rubbish (I'm so bad at videoing, and it was done in a hurry) and the boy was a bit OTT, as was the nearly 12 year old feral girl - but it will give you an idea of what the finished product looks like. This is a dog who's been trained this way from puppyhood. Obviously when you start, you're only asking for small movements. And on the pivot disc, you'll find that the dog will usually be stickier one way than the other. Oh, and because I'm impatient, I lure, but you can shape it if you have time. Hope that helps. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainy Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 (edited) How i trained my food motivated dog finish left was: Dog sitting in front' As you move your left foot a step back then together again, food in left hand lure dog in anticlockwise circle until they are in the heal position. ETA I Like those target mats Tassie may i ask what they are? Edited February 5, 2014 by Rainy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 What Tassie said about rear end awareness :) Once you have pivoting down (I used shaping, lots of Youtube videos online for that) you're set! I don't train much for rally anymore (just need one more RAE pass) so when I practice I just do a bunch of pivoting in the living room, some stay reinforcement, changes of position in heel position and some heelwork around objects (like the coffee table). Short, snappy sessions to keep the pup happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elise+Hudson Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 Hudson is almost ready to trial CCD and there is a Rally O comp coming up in a few weeks and I am not working! So thought it might be fun to have a go. His heeling could obviously improve, but depending on how distracted he is on the day I think we would be fine to make an entire run out. I have really struggled with the rear end awareness on the disc, Hudson tends to crank his head right around and not move at all till he kind of falls of the side of the disc.. funny boy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Do you have a video of his disc work? If you would like some ideas put one up on here! I do this with lots and lots of puppies so have seen a few stumbling blocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elise+Hudson Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 I will film a session tomorrow and see if anyone has some ideas for us :) That is a good idea! It's more than likely something I am doing wrong. I went to a new obedience club the other day and the head instructor was so lovely, and he told me that Hudson is ready for CCD, I am not quite up to speed with him yet! haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Hudson is almost ready to trial CCD and there is a Rally O comp coming up in a few weeks and I am not working! So thought it might be fun to have a go. His heeling could obviously improve, but depending on how distracted he is on the day I think we would be fine to make an entire run out. The Rally ring is a good place to start trialling obedience type stuff IMHO, because you can (and should) talk to your dog to tell him he's doing great and/or to remind him where his attention should be. :D And it reminds you and gives you a chance to be working with a nice loose lead - most judges will ping you for tight leads - as they should. If you get the chance, gradually do little bits of work in more distracting environments - don't ask for too much, but reward him heavily for maintaining attention - first when the distractions are low level and further away, then gradually asking a bit more of him - back off if you need to. I have really struggled with the rear end awareness on the disc, Hudson tends to crank his head right around and not move at all till he kind of falls of the side of the disc.. funny boy! So that's information to you that he's not really aware of what his rear end is doing, or that his rear end can drive him. IMHO, not so surprising in an Aussie because of their squarish structure - different length to height ratio to a BC for instance. As well as having a look at some of the Youtube things, you can try 'cheating/short cutting' by moving closer in towards his body - aiming behind his shoulder, while still holding the lure just in front of his nose - but be sure to watch like a hawk for the tiniest movement of a rear foot, and mark and reward that - it will be the foot furthest away from your body. Reward any tiny movement a few times, then see if he'll give you a bit more. And always work both ways - i.e. clockwise and counter-clockwise - the dog should move more freely on one of those directions, depending on his "pawedness". When you're starting off with the disc, you'll be working with the dog facing you if you can - perpendicular to you - until they're really comfortable working rouind the circle. Even with Rory in my clip, the warm up started with him facing just to remind him of his job - then switched to the heel part. Oh - and should we tell you now that Rally can become as addictive as agility almost - and expensive in entries when you get to doing RAE - 10 double Qs - 2 entries for each dog for each trial. Rory got RAE2 at the end of last year - and one towards his 3. The feral one finally got RAE - now do I keep going with her - answer - probably yes - see - I'm addicted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 What Tassie said about rear end awareness :) Once you have pivoting down (I used shaping, lots of Youtube videos online for that) you're set! I don't train much for rally anymore (just need one more RAE pass) so when I practice I just do a bunch of pivoting in the living room, some stay reinforcement, changes of position in heel position and some heelwork around objects (like the coffee table). Short, snappy sessions to keep the pup happy! Not forgetting the heel back 3 steps along the wall - and the proofing against whatever might be the distractions in the offset Figure 8 . My non-toy feral girl has frequently cost me points going to investigate the toys - mind you, she doesn't really know how to heel properly, given that she's primarily my agility and tracking girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elise+Hudson Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 I was surprised we did the offset figure of 8 at training on Monday and he didn't even look at the toys! He is only really distracted by other dogs, not so much food or toys. I will do a bit of work with him tomorrow and see if I can film it. I might enter this trial anyway, the biggest problem we will come across I think is the tight lead - I tend to use a bit of tension on the lead to remind him he needs to pay attention - particularly when doing the left turn 270's etc. Will have to keep that in the front of the mind for the next week or so in training! Can you hold the lead in your right hand, or does it have to be held in the left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Which is why I always train behaviours without a lead or collar as much as possible (except long lines for recalls if necessary) - it's a very easy trap to fall in to! If needed (rarely as I don't do Rally) I would add it in later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Which is why I always train behaviours without a lead or collar as much as possible (except long lines for recalls if necessary) - it's a very easy trap to fall in to! If needed (rarely as I don't do Rally) I would add it in later. Yes - totally agree. Or if you need the lead - like at club, try to tuck it into your belt so you're not tempted to use it. I try to train if I have to be on lead, as if I didn't have it on IYSWIM. You can hold the lead in either hand or both. And you can give a bit of directional guidance to your dog with your hand - (not touching the dog) - although under the new rules, if you're deemed to be luring a lot of the time (with your hand) you'll be NQd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainy Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Yes - totally agree. Or if you need the lead - like at club, try to tuck it into your belt so you're not tempted to use it. I try to train if I have to be on lead, as if I didn't have it on IYSWIM. You can hold the lead in either hand or both. And you can give a bit of directional guidance to your dog with your hand - (not touching the dog) - although under the new rules, if you're deemed to be luring a lot of the time (with your hand) you'll be NQd. I almost got NQd once for my hands I didn't realise I was looking at them for my left and rights and the judge said it could have been classed as lureing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elise+Hudson Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 So can you pat your side for heel? Or would this be considered luring? Yes sadly I have done almost all my training in obedience on lead at either private training or in a club situation. I will have to use my longer lead and put it in my right hand so I am not so tempted to use it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piper Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Thanks for starting this thread :) I am working on getting my 2 ready for the BC Nationals in about 6 or 7 weeks. It will be good to watch and get ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I also don't train on lead. I only put the leash on to practice getting my hands right!!! You can pat your side for heel in rally (not constantly) but not in obedience. I find my girl works better with less signals and talking so you also have to work out what your dog likes :) We tend to get a bit "chatty" in trials because of nerves ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 How i trained my food motivated dog finish left was: Dog sitting in front' As you move your left foot a step back then together again, food in left hand lure dog in anticlockwise circle until they are in the heal position. ETA I Like those target mats Tassie may i ask what they are? Rainy, they're just cut to size to fit your dog from those interlocking camping floor mats you can get in packs of 4 from outdoor and camping stores .. the solid ones obviously, not the ones with holes. :laugh: They're quite often on special. You can cut them with a Stanley knife or scissors, and then I just gaffer tape them together. It's good to have a couple that the dog can stand on .. with only a bit of room at the sides and a bit more in length. You can also have cut down ones as the dog learns what he's doing, do that they just fit a neat tuck sit. Mine could probably do with being a bit higher .. it's good for the dog to be able to feel when he's out of position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Thanks for starting this thread :) I am working on getting my 2 ready for the BC Nationals in about 6 or 7 weeks. It will be good to watch and get ideas. Looking forward to meeting up, piper. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Definitely do some rear end awareness work, I think you'll find it will help with his understanding of heel position which could in turn help with the need to 'remind' him of heel position in your turns. Try to work without the leash as much as possible as others have said, outside of rally and CCD you won't use the leash in trial work so start trying to get rid of it in training now to 'wean' yourself off using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemesideways Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Definitely do some rear end awareness work, I think you'll find it will help with his understanding of heel position which could in turn help with the need to 'remind' him of heel position in your turns. Try to work without the leash as much as possible as others have said, outside of rally and CCD you won't use the leash in trial work so start trying to get rid of it in training now to 'wean' yourself off using it. My problem is now when I have to hold a leash I get all confused as to how I'm supposed to hold it and where do my hands go! I think im just easily confused though! Sorry OT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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