Adverse Reactions To C4 Vaccinations

[WreckitWhippet]

If you travel on a regular basis then the dogs are more likely to have been exposed to the diseases. If they were home in your yard, never travelled and never exposed, then there is more chance if they do come into contact with parvo etc, that they would become ill.

Titre test and forget about vaccinating, you cannot give a dog that already has immunity any additional immunity.

[Alyosha]

Contact your vet and get them to report the issue here: http://www.apvma.gov.au/use_safely/adverse/veterinary.php

If they are adults and don't need C5 for boarding, I would be giving C3 every three years or titre testing if you can access it. The trouble with over vaccinating is that it is suspected of actually weakening the immune system instead of strengthening it..

[Rosetta]

Contact your vet and get them to report the issue here: http://www.apvma.gov.au/use_safely/adverse/veterinary.php

If they are adults and don't need C5 for boarding, I would be giving C3 every three years or titre testing if you can access it. The trouble with over vaccinating is that it is suspected of actually weakening the immune system instead of strengthening it..

Many boarding kennels are now accepting the 3 yearly vacs with yearly kennel cough - it is a matter of asking around to find one.

[Wundahoo]

Not out to start a discussion over if they need yearly vaccinations or not as everyone has a opinion on this subject, even our breeder agree's they do need vacinations as they travel a lot,,visit many parks and often stay at accomodation where other dogs have stayed.

Yes Titre testing could be an option for the future but not many vets actually offer this service and it is very expensive in Australia. As for changing vets thats a harsh call since this was the first time they have all reacted!! And he was as shocked as we were...

sorry to be blunt but it's not as expensive as your dogs dying on you from a reaction. This is what you have to weigh up.

Actually titre testing should not be expensive ! If your vet is charging you a lot of money for the service then shop around for another vet which does the test at a reasonable price. The laboratory which does the testing charges a standard fee and this is not a huge amount. Anything else that is added to the cost is done so by the veterinary practice.

Invest in a titre test and even if it's more expensive than one annual vaccination you will probably find that your dogs levels are very high and you will probably not need to revaccinate for quite a few years (if ever again!!). Your dogs cannot be any more immune than immune..... annual revaccination does not "boost"their immunity unless they are below the line, and if they have had multiple vaccinations it's unlikely that will have been a non-responder.

I'm sorry that your dogs have suffered a reaction to the vaccination. They have probably developed a sensitivity to something included in the vaccine. This is usually something like the adjuvant or vehicle which is used to carry the actual antigen.

I have had a young dog come up in hives within 20 minutes of vaccination. My vet made enquiries to the vaccine company and was told that sometimes thre is a carryover of a small amount of abtibiotic which is used in the production of the vaccine. She obviously had a sensitivity to this.

Titire testing wasnt available at that time and she needed another vaccination to complete her puppy course. We used a different brand of vaccine and also gave her an antihistamine 20 minutes before she was vaccinated and we saw no reaction. We didnt ever vaccinate her again just in case the reaction might have been worse at some stage in her life.

I know that you have said that you dont want to start a debate about vaccinations however annual vaccinations for DHP are really a thing of the past and in the interests of your dog, should not be done.

You say that many places need "uptodate" vaccinations. The world protocols now say that this is triennial vaccinations. For the health a safety of my dogs I do not vaccinate any more frequently.

Here is a section taken fronm the WSAVA Vaccine Guidelines Group paper. Question 54 (my highlight) is particulalry relevant to your siruation.

QUESTIONS RELATED TO ADVERSE REACTIONS TO VACCINES

52. Is there a risk of over-vaccinating a pet (e.g. injecting it too often, or using vaccines that are not required for the

specific pet)?

Yes. Vaccines should not be given needlessly, as they may cause adverse reactions. Vaccines are medical products that should be

tailored to the needs of the individual animal. Also, when administering bacterins it is advisable to give them at separate times

rather than giving them together.

53. Are certain vaccines or combinations of vaccines more likely to cause adverse reactions than others?

Yes. Although the development of an adverse reaction is often dependent on the genetics of the animal (e.g. small breed dogs or

families of dogs), certain vaccines have a higher likelihood of producing adverse reactions, especially reactions caused by Type I

hypersensitivity. For example, bacterins (killed bacterial vaccines), such as Leptospira, Bordetella, Borrelia and Chlamydophila are

more likely to cause these adverse reactions than MLV viral vaccines.

54. Should dogs and cats with a history of adverse reaction or immune-mediated diseases (hives, facial oedema,

anaphylaxis, injection site sarcoma, autoimmune disease etc.) be vaccinated?

If the vaccine suggested to cause the adverse reaction is a core vaccine, a serological test can be performed and if the animal is found

to be seropositive (antibody to CDV, CPV-2, FPV) revaccination is not necessary. If the vaccine is an optional non-core vaccine

(e.g. Leptospira or Bordetella bacterin) revaccination is discouraged. For rabies, the local authorities must be consulted to determine

whether the rabies vaccine is to be administered by law or whether antibody titre may be determined as an alternative.

If vaccination is absolutely necessary then switching product (manufacturer) may be helpful. Hypersensitivity reactions are known to

be related to excipients contained within the vaccine (e.g. traces of bovine serum albumin used in the virus culture process). The use

of antihistamines pre-revaccination is acceptable and does not interfere with the vaccinal immune response. Revaccinated susceptible

animals should be closely monitored for up to 24 hours post-vaccination although such reactions (Type 1 hypersensitivity) generally

occur within minutes of exposure. Other types of hypersensitivity (II, III, IV) can occur much later (e.g. hours to months).

55. Can vaccines cause autoimmune diseases?

Vaccines themselves do not cause autoimmune disease, but in genetically predisposed animals they may trigger autoimmune

responses followed by disease – as can any infection, drug, or a variety of other environmental factors.

56. How common are adverse reactions to vaccines?

There is no definitive answer to this question as it is difficult to obtain accurate data. Determining the frequency of adverse

reactions relies upon the veterinarian or owner reporting such reactions to the manufacturer or national authority (where such

routes exist). It is currently accepted that the vaccines that we use are very safe with a very low incidence of possible side effects. The

benefits of protection from serious infectious disease far outweigh the risks of developing an adverse reaction. Recent analysis of a

major US hospital group database has allowed publication of data based on very large numbers of vaccinated dogs and cats. Adverse

reactions (of any kind, including very minor reactions) were documented within the first 3 days following vaccination in 38 of

10,000 vaccinated dogs. Adverse reactions (of any kind, including very minor reactions) were documented within the first 30 daysfollowing vaccination in 52 of 10,000 vaccinated cats. However, many other animals had reactions that were not reported to the

practice, but were reported to other practices or emergency practices where the animal was seen. Some breeds and families of pets

will have a much higher evidence of adverse reactions than the general population of animals.

[espinay2]

To add to Wundahoo's excellent information, here is a link on managing vaccine reactions by Dr JEan Dodds who is considered a leader in relation to the issue of Vaccinosis: http://www.dogs4dogs...jean-dodds-dvm/

Skimmed an interesting article by her too that mentions that dogs with predominantly white or colour dilution may be more prone to vaccine reactions: http://www.dogsadver...redisposed.html

Titres don't cost the earth. As I mentioned in the other thread currently running on Titres, I paid $59.65 to get one run about a year ago.

This series of videos is worth watching as it is very educational on current research and need for vaccination. Dr Ronald Schultz who is being interviewed is considered a leader in vaccine reseach and a major contributor the the WSAVA guidelines (on which the AVA and Australian Government vaccination guidelines are also based - all of which recommed vaccinating every three years rather than annually). Link is to the first of 4 videos:

As Alyosha suggests, I also strongly recommend reporting the reactions. It is only through people reporting that an accurate understanding of reactions can be gained.

Edited February 4, 2014 by espinay2

[Queen Maeby]

I don't understand why dogs must have all the vaccinations in one go. If we did that with humans it would make us very sick, surely. No wonder they react to them.

[aliwake]

I don't understand why dogs must have all the vaccinations in one go. If we did that with humans it would make us very sick, surely. No wonder they react to them.

There's quite a few that we take together - like MMR for starters...

[Wundahoo]

I don't understand why dogs must have all the vaccinations in one go. If we did that with humans it would make us very sick, surely. No wonder they react to them.

There's quite a few that we take together - like MMR for starters...

Taken from the WSAVA Vaccine Guidelines Group (my highlight)

QUESTIONS RELATED TO ADVERSE REACTIONS TO VACCINES

52. Is there a risk of over-vaccinating a pet (e.g. injecting it too often, or using vaccines that are not required for the

specific pet)?

Yes. Vaccines should not be given needlessly, as they may cause adverse reactions. Vaccines are medical products that should be

tailored to the needs of the individual animal. Also, when administering bacterins it is advisable to give them at separate times

rather than giving them together.

As an interesting aside, The Chair of the VGG is Prof Michael Day of Bristol Uni UK. He is considered to be one of the world's foremost authorities in Immunology and vaccines. He is an Australian (West Aussie actually) and is a product of our country's University system.

Sadly, some Australian vets have been reluctant to fully embrace the new protocols and when they were first introduced into this country there was much debate regarding the implications (mostly financial).

The AVA's statement was originally produced as a "Policy" document (ie binding on members) but was later revised to a "Position Statement" which is voluntary, hence there are still many vets in this country who recall their clients every year for vaccination and routinely give C5 rather than discussing the need with the client first. Australia is one of only a few developed countries in the world to have done this..... most others have produced their document as "policy".

[Kavik]

Actually titre testing should not be expensive ! If your vet is charging you a lot of money for the service then shop around for another vet which does the test at a reasonable price. The laboratory which does the testing charges a standard fee and this is not a huge amount. Anything else that is added to the cost is done so by the veterinary practice.

When I asked my vet about titre testing they quoted me around $200. I would say that is expensive!

[Wundahoo]

Actually titre testing should not be expensive ! If your vet is charging you a lot of money for the service then shop around for another vet which does the test at a reasonable price. The laboratory which does the testing charges a standard fee and this is not a huge amount. Anything else that is added to the cost is done so by the veterinary practice.

When I asked my vet about titre testing they quoted me around $200. I would say that is expensive!

Hi Kavik,

Yes that does seem high.

Titre testing should not be expensive..... this is what I said. I also said that IF your vet is charging a lot of money for the service then shop around.

There are a number of people who have indicated that the test is available at a very reasonable price.

Titre testing is a far better, safer and healthier alternative than needlessly vaccinating a dog when it is already immune.

People vaccinate their dogs because they want them to be healthy..... but vaccinating needlessly is NOT contributing to their health and can have some deleterious outcomes.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Wundahoo

[twodoggies2001]

Firstly if you read my post this is the first time they have reacted, both have had regular vaccinations since pups and never had any reaction before.

Not out to start a discussion over if they need yearly vaccinations or not as everyone has a opinion on this subject, even our breeder agree's they do need vacinations as they travel a lot,,visit many parks and often stay at accomodation where other dogs have stayed.

Yes Titre testing could be an option for the future but not many vets actually offer this service and it is very expensive in Australia. As for changing vets thats a harsh call since this was the first time they have all reacted!! And he was as shocked as we were...

I breed Italians, may I please ask why you are vaccinating them after the first reactions ?. :)

Is it because you believe that they need yearly vaccinations?. Contrary to much belief they do not need yearly vaccination as this compromises their immune system. If this was me I would NRVER vaccinate them again. Ask your vet for a titre test in future and perhaps you should change your vet. When you contacted the vet what did the vet say?.

I have mine titre tested and it's no more expensive than a vaccination.

[cavNrott]

Does anyone know of a vet in the SE 'burbs' of Melbourne who titres for a reasonable price. Thanks.

[Erny]

Not sure of the price comparison, cavNrott - I've not bothered as I wouldn't go to another Vet in this area regardless. I use Dr Bob Cavey at Ultimate Veterinary Clinic. Narre Warren South. Can't remember his pricing as it's been a while and the last Titre I had done I combined it with Mandela's annual Thyroid level check, which I get done via Dr Jean Dodds in the USA. It was cheaper for me to do it that way.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Erny

[cavNrott]

Thanks Erny. I'm in Mt Waverley. Narre Warren is a bit of a stretch.