BlackJaq Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I have used the search function but didn't get much.. I realize we are mostly a show/pet forum but I'm hoping some people on here might know a bit about ratters anyway? Basically I have been playing with the idea of rat control around the shedding and poultry area and I really don't like putting out bait. I'm not having much luck with live traps at all and kill traps only catch one rat at a time and I have found that often the rat does not die immediately, instead dragging the trap all over the place and bleeding everywhere before finally dying. Putting them down if I find them still alive is NOT pleasant, the rat is usually caught across the head or back and is pretty pissed off and not nice to get out of there... I have been resorting to drowning them still in the trap but I don't think drowning is a very humane death either.... So, the other day I was watching a vid about a pack of ratting terriers cleaning up a hay shed and I thought somebody here could advise me on ratting breeds and how to best utilize them. I am guessing they don't need to have a handler nearby telling them to kill rats? Our situation would mean the dog would be mostly a pet during the day, coming inside the house and probably going to work with OH (he's been wanting a compact sized dog to ride with him in his truck during the day, with air con obviously) but staying outside in a fenced in area with access to the shedding and general poultry area at night. Would that be a workable situation? Is the dog likely to want to be inside at night or is it dependent on what the dog is used to? I have house dogs as well as an outdoor working LGD (and there will be more in the foreseeable future), so we already have several dogs. Some of them do agility etc but I honestly don't think I would have enough time to take another dog to agility lessons. We are certainly not dog novices but I realize terriers are generally not easy and I have never owned one, but I would certainly appreciate recommendations for the easiest breed/s that would be suitable. I honestly don't need another pet dog, so a dog who is happy with generally being around people during the day and happy to work on its own at night would be ideal (if there is such a breed?). A short coat is my preference and obviously a small size would be good, too. Any and all advice would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Something like a Jack Russell I guess, but you wouldn't want to leave it in with your hens at night or it might kill them & also you would have to make sure it was not going to help himself to chook food etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 the first breed I thought of is a Jack Russell. Great little dogs and I would imagine fierce ratters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) Haha no all poultry gets locked away at night, hence the dog would be with the people during the day and not near the poultry area lol I don't know much about JRT except there are heaps BYB bred everywhere.. I will go have a read of the breed thread OH was interested in a Miniature Pinscher but I'm guessing they would be one of the more difficult breeds? So you guys think a JRT would be happy to sleep outdoors then? Edited February 1, 2014 by BlackJaq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) Oooh I forgot to say, if there is a breed that is less yappy I would prefer that, too, although what I know of Terriers so far makes that seem unlikely... Would love to be corrected if I'm wrong! Edited February 1, 2014 by BlackJaq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I think some whippets could be keen, they're not yappy but they wouldn't like to sleep outside. I've stressed some whippets. At least 2 of mine would be psycho killers, but the others might just go ewwwww! I'm not biting that thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 ..and where there are rats, there are often snakes I much prefer to 'hunt ' the dog/s during daylight hours , rather than leave them freerange at night. I hunt rabbits/mice/cats during daylight mostly - so I can see what's happening , and be there in case of accident/snake/ over enthusiasm ..and to finish off anything humanely. ..and I don't know about terriers being 'not easy' ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 Whippets had crossed my mind but I was a little concerned about broken legs etc.. Especially when chasing vermin in sheds with obstacles... I have read several times now that people's whippets and even greyhounds had broken bones after chasing things and not looking where they were going and colliding with fences and such.. Do you think that would be a problem? We have some Whippies in agility (hehe) and they are lovely, nice and quiet, laid back.. Both are BYB but bred as a pet and not interested in catching things overly much, the other is "hunting" bred and quite a bit taller (probably there is something else in there) and more prey driven. Both look terribly fragile though. I like that they are not hyper like a lot of terriers though. Would sleeping outside mostly be a problem due to being away from their people or mostly due to weather conditions? As I said there will be access to all the shedding, including hay shed and I'm sure we could set up a bedding area or a dog house additionally? I've never had a sight hound before either so any more info would be appreciated (personally I would favor a sight hound over a terrier but was afraid the risk of injury might be greater?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 Oh..and if you think traps are inhumane - forget little dogs who are not well versed in quick killing ..and prefer to play . :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) Hi pers, unfortunately I won't ave too much time on my hands during the day to go rat hunting, hence I was hoping to find a dog to do the job on their own without a human handler present. Night time was mostly a convenience thing as poultry are safely locked away then. Snakes are a big problem in any scenario I can think of and they are part of the reason I would like rodents kept as short as possible. I am not sure how to deal with the snake issue but I would have thought any dog who is outside, especially at night during the summer, would be in danger, including the LGDs? ETA: I am sure a ratter would get better at his job as he matures, something I cannot say of the traps at least. A cat will play with rodents also. We have a cat but he prefers to eat rabbits and has made no impact on rodents that I can tell. I would really like to get away from bait and I do not want any more cats since they kill all sorts of wildlife as well. At least a dog will be confined in a fenced in area and cannot climb trees (most of the time). We will not get any more cats once the current one passes Edited February 1, 2014 by BlackJaq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRG Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I was brought up with Border Terriers who were great ratters and very hardy - not sure the modern day show stock would fit the bill. EM me privately and I'll give the number of a friend who will know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I am not sure how to deal with the snake issue but I would have thought any dog who is outside, especially at night during the summer, would be in danger, including the LGDs? yes, but snakes also love hidey holes, and disused mouse/rat tunnels are perfect! the disturbance of a dog digging & chasing can and does get snakes moving/scared/territorial. Dogs outdoors do face some risk .. but often a snake will drift by , grab a drink , or a feed ,.and drift away again if there is no interference . having a feisty dog cross paths with a snake in the dark is not a pleasant thought. Dogs hunting at night do not have (AFAIK) cat whiskers or night sight like cats to aid them ..and can easily walk into/off things ..get eyes poked by stalks/wire/sticks ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I was brought up with Border Terriers who were great ratters and very hardy - not sure the modern day show stock would fit the bill. EM me privately and I'll give the number of a friend who will know. I have a friend with a Border Terrier & surprisingly it is NOT a barker. May I suggest you forget the idea of getting a dog, & get a carpet snake instead :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 That is an interesting idea but what kind of fencing would you need to contain it? And will the local snakes see it as an intruder and attack it? That is a serious question btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I have a Tenterfield Terrier - he was shown a mouse once as a puppy and his switch flicked - he is never wrong and we always know when there are rodents nearby because he hunts them obsessively - he has disposed of rats that were probably 2-3 times the size of his head - he grabs them - crunches and shakes and spits them out and is instantly looking for the next - he is very efficient and fast! Tenterfields are a hardy sturdy dog that needs little maintenance other than a nail clip - they like to be with you but not on you - are independent and I know some who live outside - not my preference though. Some of them can be anxious and highly strung though so I'd select lines carefully and meet a lot of dogs. Chooks might be okay depending on the dog - but a major cause of death in Tenties is being bitten while attacking snakes. They were bred specifically for the purpose you require really. I have a truckie friend who is onto his second Tentie - the dog travels everywhere with him in his Semi doing runs all over the state. They lived on a station in the outback and both of their Tenties were fine with chooks and ducks, the issue they had was that the dogs wanted to get the Bungarras - probably not a problem for you! For temperament I'd probably go a JRT over a Tentie as a pet but I don't have one so can't speak of their ratting abilities - I do know my old neighbours had two of them and they said they would lay on the couch just watching mice run around the room - that definitely would not happen in my house :laugh: I also have a Manchester Terrier who was apparently bred for serious ratting but she's not the sharpest tool in the shed (prefers to run around with the rat the other dog has killed) and there is no way a Mannie could live outside - they are very attached to their people, and have very little coat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 A carpet snake would love it ( and possibly eggs & chooks as well ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 INDOORS POTENTIALMust be kept indoors in a climate-controlled terrarium. I think this kinda puts a crimp in the carpet snake idea :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pjrt Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 What about a good old fashioned standard fox terrier. A breed so often overlooked these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 The Tenterfield sounds very interesting.. I suspect that many good ratting breeds might no longer be independent or hardy enough to live outdoors 24/7, at least the show lines perhaps... I refuse to buy a BYB one though so I have to wonder what my chances are for a breeder to be willing to sell into an "outdoor working home" rather than a cushy indoor lifestyle lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted February 1, 2014 Author Share Posted February 1, 2014 (edited) What about a good old fashioned standard fox terrier. A breed so often overlooked these days. I don't know much about them, what do you think their outdoor suitability and potential to be on their own over night would be? ETA: We might even have some work for an earth dog in genuine fox hunting if we could found a suitable dog. Obviously the dog would have to be sharp and high prey drive, a soft dog would probably not be able to drive a fox out into the guns Edited February 1, 2014 by BlackJaq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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