Titre Testing

[espinay2]

Would love to get the list when done. Could be very handy.

Thing to note about vaccines in the US and breeders giving them themselves. A lot of breeders seem to have problems when they do this.

Many vets wont accept that they have been done by the breeder (even with info provided by the breeder including vaccine label) and insist puppy owner revaccinate their puppies.

Many boarding kennels and obedience clubs/training schools also wont accept them.

Main concerns appear to be concern that vaccines have not been shipped or stored properly or that they have been administered properly.

Many breeders are finding this to be extremely frustrating especially when puppies are compromised when pushy vets convince pet owners that they MUST be revaccinated.

Unfortunately this problem seems to come up far too frequently. As a result some breeders prefer to have vets administer the vaccines, despite the added expense, as it is way less hassle and stress for puppy owners and potentially less damaging for pups.

In the interview with Dr Shultz (I posted the link earlier) he mentions that if a dog has a low titre or did not sero-convert, they are generally this way for either parvo or distemper but never for both.

Apparently the dogs that are non-responders to one will generally always respond to the other. Interesting.

I also found his information about titreing the Dam to determine exactly when maternal antibodies in the pups will sink to a level where a first vaccination will be effective was interesting.

With this method pups need only one vaccination rather than a series.

Interesting that this was the method used before the 'easier' scattergun approach of a series of shots was introduced into general practice.

Edited February 8, 2014 by espinay2

[VizslaMomma]

Hi guys!

I would really appreciate some DOL opinions on this, titre testing in particular and also on vet attitude towards it? This is my first time to titre test so obviously I have no previous experiences to compare to :/

My experience is this: nearly 15 years ago, my oldest male Vizsla had his 'last vaccination'. All I can say is he was so poorly afterwards. Site of the needles was swollen & he was off colour for quite sometime. From that time onwards he paces. Walks around, around around in a kinda aimless manner.

Vet I spoke to then suggested he had had a reaction to the vaccination. No, we did not blood tests at that time. That vet THEN suggested to never vaccinate again. He explained the concept of doing blood serum levels to determine if the dog had protection against different diseases. I did a whole heap of research. I was beyond shocked to read what was happening to poor dogs given does of chemical poisons.

Dogs have never been given poisons since. They have had a combination of conventional & holistic medicine. In a space of 15 years, they had fleas ONCE. They were healthy enough, as borne out by their 6 monthly check ups.

For me I have been lucky to find more than one Vet totally receptive to what 'I' want for my dogs, aka my fur-kids. I noticed in the thread mention of the Russell Lea Clinic. Outstanding place. The protocols changed for vaccinations. Not all vets moved with the times.

Since 3 year boosters are suggested & titre testing it's better for people with aging dogs to be aware of not overloading their systems. The durgs are poison even if they prevent illness. It's that fine line isn't.

Just my experiences. I am happy with what I chose to do. The dogs were healthy and happy, :D

[Steph M]

Sorry to go OT but I'm having huge trouble finding a vet who does it here also. The confused sounds on the end of the phone are something else!

Would you vacc the 12 month ones and titre thereafter or titre from 12 mths, post initial puppy vaccs?

Edited February 16, 2014 by Steph M

[fbaudry]

I think you would do the 12 months one and titre from then on...

I know what you mean regarding confused sounds on the end of the line, it's so frustrating when you seem to know more than the experts and have to explain what it is you want done. Lucky the boarding kennels knew of them and accept them.

What really frustrates me is that my boy got really sick after his first booster. As it deteriorated progressively, I didn't establish the connection. He was finally diagnosed with muscular myositis at the specialist hospital (after muscle biopsies and tests at a lab in the US). The specialist said it was likely to have been triggered by the vacc, and his auto immune system is now pretty much damaged for life. One of his definite recommendations was to never vaccinate him again (and he said they be happy to board him at the clinic if needed), and he liaised with my regular vet on the matter.

5 months later, regular vet informs me that Will is due for his yearly shots, and seems confused about why I want him titre tested (and needs to research how to go about it).

Also, he only gave Penny the one year vaccine for her 12 months booster, and said it was safer to do so. He did give her the 3 years vacc at 24 months and I think I'll get her tested from then on.

I think it really pays to do your research and be firm and assertive with your vet (which I failed to be).

I wish they'd implement something similar for cats too; those of us boarding have no choice but to vaccinate every year.

[minimax]

People also have to be aware that when titre testing, pet insurance companies won't cover for anything that "can be vaccinated against", and titre testing isn't considered adequate. So if you do get an illness that could have been vaccinated against, they won't cover you. I worry about this being exploited if my insurance company realise I titre test instead of vaccinating, and they might start saying certain illnesses were caused by lack of vaccinated cover etc

[fbaudry]

Minimax, I'd hope that would only apply if your pugs contracted the specific illness they could have been vaccinated against I.e. Parvovirus, distemper, hepatitis etc?

Eg Will contracted canine cough whilst he was vaccinated, and PetPlan covered it but I wouldn't expect them to cover for it now that he isn't vaccinated.

I'd seriously hope they wouldn't start extrapolating

[minimax]

Minimax, I'd hope that would only apply if your pugs contracted the specific illness they could have been vaccinated against I.e. Parvovirus, distemper, hepatitis etc?

Eg Will contracted canine cough whilst he was vaccinated, and PetPlan covered it but I wouldn't expect them to cover for it now that he isn't vaccinated.

I'd seriously hope they wouldn't start extrapolating

That's what I'd hope too, but I worry insurance companies will be insurance companies and find a reason to not cover things. I know when I rang to ask about titre testing (without giving any of my policy details etc), when I finally got onto someone who understood the words "titre testing" they were very suspicious about why I would want to do that and not vaccinate and spoke to me like I was a 2 year old with "obviously anything relating to an illness than can be vaccinated again will not be covered", so I just worry that a dog has a chest infection, they decided to call it kennel cough, won't cover it, etc

Sorry, OT. Just me being overly cynical :p

But a lot of people don't realise pet insurance doesn't cover titre testing illlnesses like it does vaccinations.

[fbaudry]

Pretty sure Petplan doesn't cover regular vaccinations or desexing for that matter...

And I don't think you're being overly cynical; I know Petplan refused to cover a grass seed removal (it went in between toes and was migrating up Penny's leg ) because she had pre existing skin conditions

[DeltaCharlie]

I give puppy shots and then titre at 12-14months. Have never had a dog come back without a high level of immunity at this age. If they are adequately vaccinated before 6 months it should, in theory, carry them through for life. Certainly no need for a 12 month booster, its just overkill unless a titre level comes back as a low result (which still technically indicates immunity but most would revaccinate in this instance).

[moosepup]

My vet still pushes for annual vaccs but I got Moose and Zoe titred. Zoe hadn't been vacc'd for YEARS and her levels were pretty high.

This is an extract of what you get from Vetpath for those interested. This one was for Moose 3 years post vacc.

[FHRP]

My latest pup got his first two vaccinations (6 & 12 weeks) and was then titre tested at 16 weeks old, with a high positive titre result. He will not get the 16 week vaccination and I will revisit in 12 months to decide whether to 're-titre'. I will no longer have any further vaccination on a dog after the first two puppy shots without titre testing.

I have not spoken directly with my pet insurance company about tire testing, but I seem to remember a friend said they accepted titre testing. I have not had any problems with claims with my pet insurance over the years so for me the risk of them refusing something is outweighed by the benefit of not over vaccinating.

[Chris the Rebel Wolf]

Very informative thread, thanks for all those who've contributed. I am lookign at getting Maya titre tested once her next vaccination is due. I'm on the fence though about kennel cough. In the end it's likely I'll still have to carry on with that, since I believe with my agility club here it is a requirement, so I may have that in favour.

I think it would also be interesting to get Zeke done. He was vaccinated last year for the first time in three years, because he had to go into a kennel. Prior to that he had the full set of puppy vaccinations and several years of annual vaccinations, I would never have dreamed of questioning the vet back then!

[minimax]

My latest pup got his first two vaccinations (6 & 12 weeks) and was then titre tested at 16 weeks old, with a high positive titre result. He will not get the 16 week vaccination and I will revisit in 12 months to decide whether to 're-titre'. I will no longer have any further vaccination on a dog after the first two puppy shots without titre testing.

I have not spoken directly with my pet insurance company about tire testing, but I seem to remember a friend said they accepted titre testing. I have not had any problems with claims with my pet insurance over the years so for me the risk of them refusing something is outweighed by the benefit of not over vaccinating.

Who are you with? I couldn't find any that would cover vaccinatable illnesses with a titre test.

[moosepup]

I wouldn't think any policies would say it implicitly but I wonder what they'd say if you asked. Interested to know but scared to ask lol.

[Erny]

People also have to be aware that when titre testing, pet insurance companies won't cover for anything that "can be vaccinated against", and titre testing isn't considered adequate. So if you do get an illness that could have been vaccinated against, they won't cover you. I worry about this being exploited if my insurance company realise I titre test instead of vaccinating, and they might start saying certain illnesses were caused by lack of vaccinated cover etc

I'd be fighting that, if it did come up. If immunity is proven via titre, I cannot see how "lack of vaccinated cover" could be proven by the insurance cover as the cause of a disease being contracted.

[DeltaCharlie]

Even with the dogs that are covered by petplan, I am not going to vaccinate them. The whole point of titre testing is to give you the confidence that your dog has immunity and will not contract the disease even if it came in contact with it. Given that, why would I vaccinate to ensure they are insured for a disease I am confident they should have immunity for anyway? Does that make sense?

KC is a different story, even though I see it as unnecessary I am considering getting Whip re-vaccinated for it as that way if he happens to contract it and requires veterinary attention I can claim the expenses. Delta and Charlie are not insured so I won't give it to them. Shock is still covered by her puppy vaccs at this point in time.

[Dr Bruce Syme]

There is a nifty "in house" test kit called Vaccicheck, that can run a titre test in about 20-30 minutes, at a cost about the same as vaccination. I have been using this test kit for several years (although the nurses hate it because it has about 15 stages to complete). We have been advising 3 yearly vaccinations (after puppy shots and first booster) for over 12 years now, without a single negative, and lots of happy clients. I have had many dogs showing positive cover after 6-7 yrs.

EDM -Annual vaccinations.doc

[Steph M]

"To Steph,

Thank you for your question, yes we do perform the titre test here we can do it at any age as long as the dogs have had their puppy vaccinations and it is generally done when they are due for the vaccinations. It costs $315.42 per dog to be done and as long as the dog is healthy that is all that is required but if an abnormality shows up then we do need to vaccinate.

If you have any further questions please give us a call"

I have a question. Why are you 3 and a bit times more than my highest quote so far?

Ruled you our, lady!

[Erny]

"To Steph,

Thank you for your question, yes we do perform the titre test here we can do it at any age as long as the dogs have had their puppy vaccinations and it is generally done when they are due for the vaccinations. It costs $315.42 per dog to be done and as long as the dog is healthy that is all that is required but if an abnormality shows up then we do need to vaccinate.

If you have any further questions please give us a call"

I have a question. Why are you 3 and a bit times more than my highest quote so far?

Ruled you our, lady!

My highlights

Hhhhhmmm ….. What do they mean by "if an abnormality shows up"?

[Steph M]

I assume if immunity is lower than it should be?

I pretty much ruled that out instantly. There's a really nice one we've found who's quoted 110. I knew that one would be pricy as it's an inner eastern suburban practice. When we lived in St Kilda we paid heaps at vets!