mita Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) Having Pyreneans you learn a lot about dog intelligence. VERY intelligent. NOT biddable. If you want them to perform tasks or behaviours for you they have to have a VERY good reason to do it. But their reasoning and problem solving capabilites are sometimes simply astounding. They are dogs bred to think for themselves. I find it endlessly fascinating just to observe them. This fits Tibetan Spaniels as well.... tho' the degree of biddability varies. Just my theory, but I think dog breeds that had to survive in difficult/harsh/demanding conditions learned to be exactly as you describe, in order to survive. I read where Tibetan horses behave differently from those in the West. They take a lot of the 'control' from the rider, because they're first to be aware of 'coming' rockfalls, weather changes, dangerous creatures around.. So the Tibetan horse makes decisions about actual path to take.... & the riders follow that. Tibbies ask about anything that's asked of them... 'And the point of this, is?' You'd better be able to convince them. But it's made up for the fact that once they agree & learn something... they never forget & apply it themselves. They'll even apply it against you! Edited January 31, 2014 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malamum Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I have one dog who is very intelligent and one dog who is very bidible and as the others have said they are two very different traits. The smart one is very good at problem solving, learning new things and following direction as long as it's something he wants to do. He always understands what you want but that doesn't mean he will always do it. The dopey one just likes to please for the most part and if she understands what you want will do as she is told but she gets confused very easily so is often more frustrating than the smarter but more stubborn one. When I used to take Indy to obedience classes it was always one extreme or the other, if he was interested and in the mood for training he would be the star of the class and would often get used as the demonstration dog but if he was in FU mode you couldn't get him to do anything. After being reduced to tears a few times I quickly learnt that if he was in that mode then it was insanity on my part to try and force him to cooperate so we'd just call it quits for the day. However on his good days he was amazing, I still remember learning heeling about turns and we couldn't seem to get it, when I asked the instructor for help she watched us and then cracked up laughing and said "You're the problem, Indy is doing it perfectly and it's you who is turning the wrong way" :laugh: Training with Kira was frustrating in a different way as she never actually listened or followed instructions. She would get so excited and worked up at the prospect of a treat that she would just throw any behaviour regardless of whether it was the one you asked for or not. She's still like that at dinner time, Indy sits and waits patiently, you don't even need to tell him as he knows the drill but she is up and down like a yo-yo as she can't decide if she should be dropping or sitting and which one is going to get her the release command quicker. Another time when we were staying at a property which was not our own we called the dogs in from being allowed to run around free as we wanted to lock them in the house yard so we could go inside. They both came running but as soon as Kira realised she was going to be locked in she went to turn back around and run away as she was obviously not ready to stop exploring and Indy noticed this and dived on her and pinned her to the ground so she couldn't move and held her there until I got to her and made her come inside. So as well as being smart he's also bossy. I've tried the tea towel over the food with both of them and Indy figured it out instantly. It almost broke poor Kira's brain and I had to take it off for her as she just couldn't figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DobieMum Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I had to do this test for an assignment. Here's how we went Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hankodie Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Aw awesome Dobiemum, what a cute vid! I'll have to try out those tests with my 2 now :laugh: thanks for sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph M Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 I'm pretty sure Gus would eat through the tea towel and we would be at the vet with an obstruction ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebbles Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Over the years I've had a number of different breeds but the Afghans were the ones which always amazed me with their ability to figure out problems - obedience, not so good but free thinking, brilliant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hankodie Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I'm pretty sure Gus would eat through the tea towel and we would be at the vet with an obstruction ... I threw a blanket over Hank's head yesterday after reading some responses on this post. He made a half-assed attempt to paw it off then he just lied down quietly and waited for me to come and take it off his head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I'm just going with the thought that my bully only does things if she can see something in it for her, why go around something when you can walk through ,or over it,she must be smart :laugh: Terriers are bred to think for themselv's, I personally can't stand breeds that want you to tell them what to do all the time. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trisven13 Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I haven't thrown a tea-towel over my dog's head but I have no doubt if I did it would be off her head very quickly lol. She can open a crate, open the back door, open the fridge.... a tea-towel on her head wouldn't last long :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perry's Mum Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 I have two koolies and while Friskie is far better at learning things than Perry, Perry is way smarter and can think things out for herself. I have watched her count off sheep into a pen, work out the most efficient way of getting three separate lots of sheep together and keep them together, she taught herself to open the fridge, get what she wanted and shut the door again, when she knocked a glass of water over on the coffee table she went and got kitchen towel, unrolled it over the spill and then dabbed it down with her paws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Maeby Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 when she knocked a glass of water over on the coffee table she went and got kitchen towel, unrolled it over the spill and then dabbed it down with her paws. Wow, that's impressive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disintegratus Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 My lot have varying levels of intelligence. Zehra (rotty x) is generally dumber than a bag of hammers, but she figured out very quickly that if she manages to sneak inside without permission, the best thing to do is to find somewhere quiet, dark and out of the way where she won't get noticed, whereas the others sneak in without permission and come straight up to me for pats Bones (husky x rotty apparently) is generally regarded as the dumbest of the lot. after almost 9 months of being with us, she still hasn't figured out the basic requirement of sitting down quietly and waiting for food. it's not even excitement at being fed, she just gets distracted really easily, wanders around, once or twice she's even gotten half-way into a sit without being told, only to get distracted and start walking around for no reason. However, she is the only one who's figured out how to open the back door. Harley (dobe x kelpie) is more biddable than intelligent, though he does have potential. Thundercleese (pigdog mongrelly thing) is both intelligent and biddable, but is hampered by his crippling need to be touching me all the time. He has issues with listening to me when off lead (only at home, he's the one with fear issues), because he seems to hear everything that comes out of my mouth as "come over here and touch me with your face." I think it might be related, but his recall is excellent! :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trisven13 Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 As a brilliant example of the difference between intelligence and biddability - yesterday we attended Noseworks and I took two of my dogs, Marie & Bazinga. Marie is the LEAST biddable dog I own and at 7 years old only now will come to me SOMETIMES if she is in the yard off lead. At only her second session of Noseworks she is doing so well that she is almost ready to proceed to working on scents, not food. There are other far more obedient dogs doing this but she is kicking their butts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 As a brilliant example of the difference between intelligence and biddability - yesterday we attended Noseworks and I took two of my dogs, Marie & Bazinga. Marie is the LEAST biddable dog I own and at 7 years old only now will come to me SOMETIMES if she is in the yard off lead. At only her second session of Noseworks she is doing so well that she is almost ready to proceed to working on scents, not food. There are other far more obedient dogs doing this but she is kicking their butts. If her scent drive is anything like daisys that's why she tunes out to you calling her - her instinct has her so locked on to the scent. Glad she's loving nose work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trisven13 Posted February 1, 2014 Share Posted February 1, 2014 As a brilliant example of the difference between intelligence and biddability - yesterday we attended Noseworks and I took two of my dogs, Marie & Bazinga. Marie is the LEAST biddable dog I own and at 7 years old only now will come to me SOMETIMES if she is in the yard off lead. At only her second session of Noseworks she is doing so well that she is almost ready to proceed to working on scents, not food. There are other far more obedient dogs doing this but she is kicking their butts. If her scent drive is anything like daisys that's why she tunes out to you calling her - her instinct has her so locked on to the scent. Glad she's loving nose work! :laugh: Yep, we say her ears are painted on, purely for decoration. She has a really strong food & scent drive though so a game that involves both things is a big win! She jumped out of the car yesterday and Steve and I each thought that the other had the lead. She took off straight away for where she gets to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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