Intelligence

[Dame Aussie]

My Aussie is too smart for her own good, always watching everything, listening to everything, very easy to train and teach new things. She pretty much toilet trained our other dog for us and when he was a puppy and doing something naughty, she would race over and bite him on the muzzle and growl to stop him. She is very in tune with our emotions and moods, although my boy is like that also.

People often think my Anatolian x is stupid because he doesn't always follow commands, he's not, far from it. He only does what he is told if it benefits him, otherwise we get the proverbial finger!

Edited January 29, 2014 by Aussie3

[LisaCC]

Nova is too smart for his own good. He watches people and other things very carefully and figures out problems he encounters very quickly.

He knows how to manipulate people that don't know how to control him properly too, such as my mother or housemate.

He also has a very high drive to work, so learns things very quickly and remembers them well. He was taking himself to the back door to toilet the day I got him at 8 weeks.

I started teaching 2x2 weaves this morning and he realised he should run through the set almost straight away to earn the reward.

My lab on the other hand was like Hank, bit of a dope, wasn't a real independent thinker, but he still had intelligence when it came to learning tricks. Even at 10 years old I could teach him a new trick in one or two sessions. Food is always a good motivator for a labby!

[Guest hankodie]

People often think my Anatolian x is stupid because he doesn't always follow commands, he's not, far from it. He only does what he is told if it benefits him, otherwise we get the proverbial finger!

Yes I'm all to familiar with this Aussie :laugh: I can almost hear the cogs turning in Odie's brain whenever I ask her to do something out of the blue: "hmmmm... I don't think she has treats. Or maybe she does. No wait - she's wearing those pants without the pockets. Definitely no treats on her. SCREW YOU HUMAN, I DO WHAT I WANT!"

:laugh:

[Guest hankodie]

Nova is too smart for his own good. He watches people and other things very carefully and figures out problems he encounters very quickly.

He knows how to manipulate people that don't know how to control him properly too, such as my mother or housemate.

He also has a very high drive to work, so learns things very quickly and remembers them well. He was taking himself to the back door to toilet the day I got him at 8 weeks.

I started teaching 2x2 weaves this morning and he realised he should run through the set almost straight away to earn the reward.

My lab on the other hand was like Hank, bit of a dope, wasn't a real independent thinker, but he still had intelligence when it came to learning tricks. Even at 10 years old I could teach him a new trick in one or two sessions. Food is always a good motivator for a labby!

Is Nova biddable as well Lisa or is training him more of a challenge sometimes? I'm always curious if the dogs too smart for their own good are always harder to train.

Hank is definitely a bit of a dumb dumb head but I love that about him. Food is a great motivation, as affection and general enthusiasm - I can't pull the excited "GOOOOD DOGGGG" routine with Odie, she just looks at me like "seriously. Can you stop with the high pitched voice?" whereas I can teach Hank a trick and reward him through affection & enthusiasm alone. It's so hilarious when he does something right and I act really excited and give him lots of pats as a reward, he runs around and does victory circles with his tongue hanging out like he's saying "human happy! Hank get pats! HANK IZ GEENIUS"

[LisaCC]

I find him very easy to train, he has a huge toy drive and will do anything for a tug. Multiple times he has preferred to work for tiny bits of food than eat out of his bowl filled with the same stuff even though he has permission to go eat from it. He comes back and offers behaviours instead if he feels like working

In saying that, I watched my housemate try and get him to do a trick yesterday for a bit of carrot (which he loves and will do tricks for) but he basically gave her the finger and walked away I did point out to her all the mistakes she made. She watches me train him and tried to do the same, but with weak hand signals, tone of voice was off, repeated the command, even just basic body language.

So I think he is easy to train IF you know how to

[Keshwar]

This is all I'm going to say about Afghans and intelligence!

Edited January 29, 2014 by Keshwar

[Guest hankodie]

LMAO

[Bjelkier]

I would say my Samoyeds can think circles around a lot of dogs I've owned and known, including my Labrador. Sure the Lab is easy to train but he's not intelligent. Quite frankly compared to the Sammys he's a dumb as a box of rocks :laugh: poor boy

Samoyeds have been bred for thousands of years to think for themselves. This makes them interesting to train and fascinating to live with.

For example my girl Daenerys is a thinker. When she wants something I have she will bring me an item she believes is of equal value and place it in my lap. She then pokes whatever I have, telling me this is the trade. If I don't accept the trade she will take her item and find something better and try again.

I certainly don't believe a trainable dog is necessarily an intelligent dog.

[BlaznHotAussies]

I would say my Samoyeds can think circles around a lot of dogs I've owned and known, including my Labrador. Sure the Lab is easy to train but he's not intelligent. Quite frankly compared to the Sammys he's a dumb as a box of rocks :laugh: poor boy

Samoyeds have been bred for thousands of years to think for themselves. This makes them interesting to train and fascinating to live with.

For example my girl Daenerys is a thinker. When she wants something I have she will bring me an item she believes is of equal value and place it in my lap. She then pokes whatever I have, telling me this is the trade. If I don't accept the trade she will take her item and find something better and try again.

I certainly don't believe a trainable dog is necessarily an intelligent dog.

Aw that is adorable!! My Aussie is smart too, he's very good at giving the finger if he doesn't agree with me. Things such as getting in the ute. "Oh, I don't feel like it, I'll just sit here under the ute for as long as I like and you can't do anything about it or go anywhere!" he is lovely though. I wish I could find the bag of treats, it's disappeared! Haven't been able to find it since we got back from holidays!

[kelpiecuddles]

Wouldn't that be more accredited to nose rather than brain?

Well I did once see someone suggest that intelligence in dogs is best tested by their ability to do the job they were intended for(or a 'pet' approximation of that, eg. a working breed that does agility instead of herding) So something like a basset hound should be smart in ways that allow them to use their superior snoz, follow and find and alert their owner, a border collie should be smart in ways that could be moulded to make them a sheepdog and so on. Doesn't mean they are actually doing that job in real life but that the potential is there if that makes sense. I thought it was an interesting way to look at intelligence in a very variable species.

[Amax-1]

Border Collie, Standard Poodle and GSD are usually the top 3 of dog intelligence ratings. Not that I have had much experience with Poodles, but Borders and GSD's are certainly up there in the smarts for sure and certain :)

[Trisven13]

Border Collie, Standard Poodle and GSD are usually the top 3 of dog intelligence ratings. Not that I have had much experience with Poodles, but Borders and GSD's are certainly up there in the smarts for sure and certain :)

They're also up there with obedience. Obedience (or biddability) is not necessarily an indicator of intelligence.

My friend has Border Collies and they are very obedient, they're definitely NOT any smarter than my Fauves however.

[BoxerB]

Here's some info from a book/study that was done.

Not sure i agree with the rankings though. It has the Boxer down at 48.

This is completely wrong. Eg when my boy has gas, he'll get up from where he's lying down, walk over next to us, let one rip, then go back to where he was.

If thats not intelligence, I'm not sure what is!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Intelligence_of_Dogs

[Steph M]

But for sheer ingenuity in getting what THEY want, Whippets are hard to beat. Very cunning thieves.

Yes. Rosie the whippy x koolie is as smart as they come. Knows how to solve problems, beat obstacles, knows how to get Gus in trouble or get a toy she wants from him (she will pick up another one and throw it about like she's having a blast and when he comes to investigate the fun she zooms back to the original toy).

She learns in no time at all, yet only uses her skills when she knows the reward is worth her time.

If I'm eating a bag of chips she will offer me anything I ask for, yet if it's kibble. She will half-ass it for a while and give up.

We had so much trouble training her recall when we got her. We were treating her every time she would come back but if we had a treat that wasn't up to scratch she would do it two or three times and you could see her change and realise that was all she was getting and she would just go deaf. Meanwhile, if you have ham or steak she was there like a shot...

She's great to train as long as you're keeping it interesting, if you get bored or slack off even for a second you'll lose her.

Gus on the other hand is like Hank. Slower to learn, happier but never forgets or faulters in what he knows. Not so good at problem solving, will do anything to please but picks things up slower and requires more repetitions and reinforcement, which is easy when he will work for an ear scratch or a scrap of kibble, probably even rocks if I tried.

Biddable as anything, but perhaps not the brains trust.

They complement each other really well though!

I get the slower one for obedience this term too. Brooke thinks he got a good deal....heh heh heh.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Steph M

[Steph M]

LOL, that's pretty much how I find living with a kelpie and a basset Haredown. Bassets aren't considered to be very bright but I'd say she's smarter than she lets on, she just can't be bothered most of the time. She managed to hunt out the bag of fishfood hiding in my bedroom very successfully though!

Yup, this is what I wrote in the original post but I deleted it because it was a bit long-winded :laugh: bulldogs aren't considered to be a very smart breed but some of the stuff Odie figures out scares me. She is so cunning sometimes. For example if Hank is playing with a toy that she wants, she will pick up a stick, run around wildly in the yard with it until he chases her and then she will make a mad dash for the toy and disappear with it :laugh:

JUST LIKE THIS!

Hahahaha!!!

I should also mention that for all her brains, Rosie is a nervous wreck. If I could just reason with her...

[Amax-1]

Border Collie, Standard Poodle and GSD are usually the top 3 of dog intelligence ratings. Not that I have had much experience with Poodles, but Borders and GSD's are certainly up there in the smarts for sure and certain :)

They're also up there with obedience. Obedience (or biddability) is not necessarily an indicator of intelligence.

My friend has Border Collies and they are very obedient, they're definitely NOT any smarter than my Fauves however.

A lot of the intelligence rating is based on how quickly a dog can be trained to complete a task or exhibit a desired behaviour from what I can establish.

[Salukifan]

I gather they haven't had much luck assessing the IQ of cats because cats don't care much about performing tasks for reward.

There are more than a few dog breeds like that.

[Sayreovi]

Biddability and intelligence definately don't go hand in hand unfortunately with my lot :laugh:

I have a mixture, all within the same breed and also related. I have an intelligent dog who isn't biddable (I always say he is too smart for his own good!), a very sweet but dopey dog who would bend over backwards to please and lastly a very intelligent and biddable dog.

It really does make an interesting experience training them and while they generally all learn at the same speed, it's the repeating what I want and doing it on command that sets them apart. Also if anything requires thinking and trouble shooting it's where the intelligence shines through over biddability.

[kelpiecuddles]

Honestly I think it's no different than kids really. My oldest is ridiculously smart but gets crap reports and would probably score quite low on things like Naplan because he's just not interested in sitting there and doing what he sees as a silly test, he'd rather be dismantling the toaster, fiddling with his chemistry set or building something awesome with Mechano.

[espinay2]

Having Pyreneans you learn a lot about dog intelligence. VERY intelligent. NOT biddable. If you want them to perform tasks or behaviours for you they have to have a VERY good reason to do it. But their reasoning and problem solving capabilites are sometimes simply astounding. They are dogs bred to think for themselves. I find it endlessly fascinating just to observe them.

Stanly Coren's book 'the Intelligence of Dogs' is worth a read. Much maligned, but mainly because the 'list' is taken out of context. He clearly explains in the book that his list is in relation to one aspect of 'intelligence' only ('obedience intelligence') and does not take into account other aspects of intelligence such as adaptive intelligence or instinctive intelligence.