Salukifan Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Just a question sorry OP for butting in . My girl is aggressive on lead , she goes off when people with offlead dogs walk close to our back fence . She loves sucking her teddy and if she has it in her mouth when a dog comes close to our fence she will shake it madly . She has a high prey drive . So is she shaking the teddy cause she wants to kill the dog that's off lead ? She normally doesn't display aggressive behavior off lead she barks but nothing like on lead . Just curious .. Could be transferred aggression. This is the kind of behaviour that sees dogs bite leads or their owners when they can't reach the object of their aggression - can be frustration based too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Just a question sorry OP for butting in . My girl is aggressive on lead , she goes off when people with offlead dogs walk close to our back fence . She loves sucking her teddy and if she has it in her mouth when a dog comes close to our fence she will shake it madly . She has a high prey drive . So is she shaking the teddy cause she wants to kill the dog that's off lead ? She normally doesn't display aggressive behavior off lead she barks but nothing like on lead . Just curious .. I'd say she's redirecting her frustration at the dogs being there coupled with not being able to get to them onto her teddy. Dogs frequently shake and "kill" their toys in play without it ever translating into aggression towards other dogs so that could just be what she does with Teddy and doesn't have any other way of using him to get out her frustration, however I'd say there's a strong possibility that if she got into that state and was then able to get to a dog small enough to grab she would do the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumof4girls Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Yes I was thinking the same thing .. We don't go to dog parks and she always on lead but that's good to know as I have a SIL that's always hounding to bring over her little spoodle thing and I've always said no , I think it's best I keep saying no ,, Just a question sorry OP for butting in . My girl is aggressive on lead , she goes off when people with offlead dogs walk close to our back fence . She loves sucking her teddy and if she has it in her mouth when a dog comes close to our fence she will shake it madly . She has a high prey drive . So is she shaking the teddy cause she wants to kill the dog that's off lead ? She normally doesn't display aggressive behavior off lead she barks but nothing like on lead . Just curious .. I'd say she's redirecting her frustration at the dogs being there coupled with not being able to get to them onto her teddy. Dogs frequently shake and "kill" their toys in play without it ever translating into aggression towards other dogs so that could just be what she does with Teddy and doesn't have any other way of using him to get out her frustration, however I'd say there's a strong possibility that if she got into that state and was then able to get to a dog small enough to grab she would do the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovemesideways Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 My advice would be to take her to a decent trainer and get her behaviour evaluated so that you can gain confidence back in your dog and also discover what her problems could be. I'm VERY hesitant to try and make any assumptions on her behaviour based on limited information over the internet, your best bet is to see someone face to face and have a conversation. I recommend Steve Courtney from K9 Pro, great trainer and a great guy. http://k9pro.com.au/services/ In relation to what you said regarding her having issues with small dogs attacking her, this blog post seems relevant. http://blog.k9pro.com.au/dog-owners-think/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Thought I'd come back and just extend what I was explaining earlier, got distracted with my kids LOL You mentioned she will growl to tell others off, etc and I wonder whether she has been giving you warning signs and you have misunderstood or underestimated them. I have no doubt that if I didn't make constant assessments about the dogs I allow my kelpie to interact with she could possibly escalate and I wonder whether this MAY be what has happened here. Now that it has escalated I think the best course of actions as others have said is to get an assessment with a behaviourist to determine the best course forward. I also agree that walking might be best done with a muzzle for the time being until you have had a proper assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DobieMum Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I agree 100% with what lovemesideways said. Get someone to assess her, for your sanity. There is a lot of expertise on these forums and a lot of people with a lot of years of dogs under there belts, but none of them were down at the park to see the incident or see your dog. She may be giving you some signs or symptoms that you are misreading and the poodle may have done something that you didn't see. You may have an aggressive dog or you may have a dog that hates this one particular dog, yet loves every other one. So you know where you stand and what you can and can't do with your dog, have someone assess and help you both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amax-1 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) She normally doesn't display aggressive behavior off lead she barks but nothing like on lead . Just curious Higher displays of aggression on lead is generally due to the dog having no flight path if the situation gets too challenging, when off lead they can run away from their demons so the stress induced by the encounter is less. Typically her behaviour sounds like a response to feeling insecure. Another factor for on leash aggression is the handler becoming tense anticipating that the dog will display the behaviour and the dog senses the handlers stress and thinks the encounter is more threatening than it is and lights up with a higher level of aggression to ward off the perceived threat. Because the threat retreats, walks on by......they learn that she scared them off and continues the behaviour because it works. Edited January 28, 2014 by Amax-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Can't really say why she did it but I wouldnt go to off lead parks anymore. Don't be too upset at her, the other dog may have surprised her, setting her off? Noone can really say. The owner of the other dog needs to have their dog under control as well, so hopefully they take a lesson out of it aswell. I can't imagine taking a small dog to an off lead park things can happen quickly and it doesn't take much to kill a little dog. This is why I avoid dog parks even with my big dog, generally good dogs can do things that are out of character if they're surprised, or if as others have said they're guarding a toy etc. Edited January 28, 2014 by Aussie3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 My advice would be to take her to a decent trainer and get her behaviour evaluated so that you can gain confidence back in your dog and also discover what her problems could be. I'm VERY hesitant to try and make any assumptions on her behaviour based on limited information over the internet, your best bet is to see someone face to face and have a conversation. I recommend Steve Courtney from K9 Pro, great trainer and a great guy. http://k9pro.com.au/services/ In relation to what you said regarding her having issues with small dogs attacking her, this blog post seems relevant. http://blog.k9pro.com.au/dog-owners-think/ The OP is really on the other side of the coin to the people Steve's blog seems to be aimed at. It reminds me of something I often think about though - as much as owners who let their smaller dogs behave aggressively towards larger dogs need to stop allowing or excusing it, owners of the bigger dogs subjected to it would be wise to step in and protect their dogs from it, not just leave them to take it because they look like they can handle it. It can't be pleasant for them and the risk is that eventually they will get sick of it and retaliate, when it could have been avoided by keeping them out of those situations. That isn't aimed at you personally Georgina, I don't know if it was even a factor in the incident you had, or aimed at anyone in particular, just something I wanted to mention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgina Ebony Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 Thanks everyone for your advice and notes it is greatly appreciated. I personally am wrapped with guilt that a small dog had to experience such a traumatic thing and i pray that the man took it to the vet and nothing serious occurred internally. I really feel for him as my other dog is so small only 4.5kgs and i know how fragile they are and how strong my lab and her jaws are and the damage they can do. This has been a very big eye opener for me and a learning experience and will only continue to walk on lead and play ball at home (lucky i have a decent size back yard for this). I won't act like she is a ticking time bomb however will be super careful and alert when out walking on the lead. Tdierikx - that is some serious damage your poor rottie/pittie i feel very sorry she had to go through that pain. This situation does make me think how my lab really does feel at the dog park, maybe not as comfortable as i thought she has always shown more interest, and happiness around humans and would just ignore other dogs, sniff them and walk off but never close to what happened recently. This experience would never put me off dogs i have a great love for them all and want to do the right thing by my dogs and other people dogs. I do realise that all dogs have different personalities and love my girl to death, just so upset that this happened at all. Anyway thanks all again for your comments it has been a great help Cheers Georgina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgina Ebony Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 Thanks everyone for your advice and notes it is greatly appreciated. I personally am wrapped with guilt that a small dog had to experience such a traumatic thing and i pray that the man took it to the vet and nothing serious occurred internally. I really feel for him as my other dog is so small only 4.5kgs and i know how fragile they are and how strong my lab and her jaws are and the damage they can do. This has been a very big eye opener for me and a learning experience and will only continue to walk on lead and play ball at home (lucky i have a decent size back yard for this). I won't act like she is a ticking time bomb however will be super careful and alert when out walking on the lead. Tdierikx - that is some serious damage your poor rottie/pittie i feel very sorry she had to go through that pain. This situation does make me think how my lab really does feel at the dog park, maybe not as comfortable as i thought she has always shown more interest, and happiness around humans and would just ignore other dogs, sniff them and walk off but never close to what happened recently. This experience would never put me off dogs i have a great love for them all and want to do the right thing by my dogs and other people dogs. I do realise that all dogs have different personalities and love my girl to death, just so upset that this happened at all. Anyway thanks all again for your comments it has been a great help Cheers Georgina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgina Ebony Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 Thanks everyone for your advice and notes it is greatly appreciated. I personally am wrapped with guilt that a small dog had to experience such a traumatic thing and i pray that the man took it to the vet and nothing serious occurred internally. I really feel for him as my other dog is so small only 4.5kgs and i know how fragile they are and how strong my lab and her jaws are and the damage they can do. This has been a very big eye opener for me and a learning experience and will only continue to walk on lead and play ball at home (lucky i have a decent size back yard for this). I won't act like she is a ticking time bomb however will be super careful and alert when out walking on the lead. Tdierikx - that is some serious damage your poor rottie/pittie i feel very sorry she had to go through that pain. This situation does make me think how my lab really does feel at the dog park, maybe not as comfortable as i thought she has always shown more interest, and happiness around humans and would just ignore other dogs, sniff them and walk off but never close to what happened recently. This experience would never put me off dogs i have a great love for them all and want to do the right thing by my dogs and other people dogs. I do realise that all dogs have different personalities and love my girl to death, just so upset that this happened at all. Anyway thanks all again for your comments it has been a great help Cheers Georgina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Georgina, I think you've reacted as well as you could in a very difficult situation. Sounds like you are being sensible in what you will do in the future, and you've taken varying advice on board graciously. Good on you and best wishes going forward with your girl :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 will be super careful and alert when out walking on the lead. not really .. your girl will pick up on extra alertness/worry ..and may well react in a not-so-good-way just change things ..relax with her on lead ..put obedience exercises in as part of a walk ... enjoy the scenery ... and do check the 'Look at That " games etc " :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Georgina, given that your dog has never shown the slightest aggression on lead, I see no reason for you to think she will be. You probably won't find a place that makes dogs more hyper aroused than at a dog park. My guess is outside that environment and not confronted by unknown small dogs running at her, you will be unlikely to witness a recurrence. If you want to put it beyond doubt, muzzle her on walks. If that's what it takes to relax YOU, its worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgina Ebony Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 Thanks everyone! :) Just came back from our night walk with my girl it was relaxing and enjoyable... Haredown Whippets - i agree with you that this is unlikely to reoccur and our walks on lead have always been enjoyable and relaxing for both myself and her. We will not be attending dog parks to avoid this happening again. She always heals/walks next to me and sits automatically at every kerb before we continue walking across the road this is something we have been doing from a very young age, if she pulls a little or goes to sniff too long at something i say 'leave it' and she always does and continues walking. Thanks again, have a wonderful night ahead Regards Georgina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgina Ebony Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 i will also be looking into a behaviorist/trainer on this issue to make sure i am reading signs correctly by someone qualified :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) I think you, your dog and the little dog were all very lucky. What your dog did was enough to have her declared dangerous and you are lucky that you're not footing a major vet bill. Dogs don't have to leave bite marks to do very serious damage when they shake a small dog it can rupture internal organs or break their spine. Yes, I'm probably coming across rather negative but there is no way known I'd be risking a repeat of that behaviour in a public dog park with a dog that now has a history of aggression. If you want to find reasons for this, seek professional help. No one can tell you what your dog was doing without observation and qualifications but I can tell you that shaking like that is often a predatory response. Your dog might not have recognised the poodle x as a dog - wouldn't be the first time that has happened. I would not be exercising her in public offlead areas without seeking professional help first and probably not even then. This is being responsible - you cannot afford to risk any repetition of this behaviour or the next little dog won't be so lucky. It was a Lab that killed a tiny poodle in our dog park a few years ago - most people wouldn't believe it of a Lab but it's true and I'm sure these things happen far more often than we know. Play ball in the backyard, walk your dog around the neighbourhood and watch closely for any other signs that something is amiss with her. I hope you have many more happy years ahead with no worries or problems. Edited January 28, 2014 by dogmad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canisbellum Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I strongly disagree with all the doomsayers here. Dogs also have bad days if it was my dog I would carry on as usual, probably restrict ball play keep her closer and keep an eye on her for a while. I would also have given the poodle owners a serve. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) I strongly disagree with all the doomsayers here. Dogs also have bad days if it was my dog I would carry on as usual, probably restrict ball play keep her closer and keep an eye on her for a while. I would also have given the poodle owners a serve. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk And the next time it happened and the dog killed the small dog, would you give the owner a serve then? Not saying the OPs dog would kill another dog but the point is you don't know. This is one reason I don't use dog parks, they are accidents waiting to happen. People like you Canetoad would take a dog to the park even when you know it has attacked another dog before and there's every likelihood it would again. The worst thing you can do in this situation is allow the dog to rehearse the behavior, it will become more ingrained and habitual. what the OP needs to do is get professional help to help her understand and modify the behaviour :) Edited January 28, 2014 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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