Advice Needed - Incident With My Labrador

[Georgina Ebony]

Hi There,

I have a 3 and a half year old black lab (pedigree with papers that we purchased from a breederfound on Dogzonline) she is adorable!,wants nothing more than belly scratches, absolutely loves people and is totally ball obsessed. I also have a two year old Shih Tzu x Pekingnese (male)and they get a long well, play and sleep together

My Lab is quite a dominant femaale and the breeder informed us that her mother was the same, e.g. if a male tries to mount her she will sit and growl and they will leave her alone she is also a great guard dog at home.

She has been to puppy training and further training to work on her manners e.g. walk without pulling, no jumping etc which has been a huge help. She has also been going to an off the leash dog park since she received all her puppy vaccinations so is used to being around all sorts of people and dogs over the years.

The other day we went to this same dog park and we were throwing the ball she was bringing it back nothing out of the ordinary just minding her business, when on her way back a poodle mix (much small than her) came running very fast at her then the next think i know my lab has grabbed it by the neck and was shaking it and the poor thing was squealing, i ran as quickly as i could as soon as i grabed her she let go of the dog and it ran off - i didnt see any puncture wounds or blood but the poor little thing was so scared and the owner was very angry with us (as you would be) saying its an off the leash area how can we allow a vicious dog off the lead etc. I was trying to explain that she has never acted like this otherwise i definitly wouldn't have her off lead, i didn't see if this dog nipped her first for her to act this way.

She has experienced a lot of small dogs running up to her and either barking or nipping at her feet but she would either just walk off or growl and keep on walking never acting like she did with this dog.

I am so upset that she would act this way towards another dog and am trying to understand what could have made her behaive this way as she has never been treated badly by anyone, did she just get fed up with smalls dogs having a go at her? This small dog didn't seem aggressive at all. Needless to say we won't be going back to this park

Advice from anyone would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

G

[raineth]

Do you think she may have been guarding her ball?

[Christina]

No idea why she did this out of the blue. Do not let her off lead in dog parks anymore or anywhere there is likely to be any other dogs is my advice.

If she shows any sign of aggression towards your own dog take her for a vet check.

The only time in her life my doberman snapped my chihuahua or any of my other dogs was when she was 10 years old. She had a bit of a cough but it turned out she had cancer.

Not saying your dog has cancer but they may act out of the ordinary if they are not well.

Sometimes you don't know why a dog turns nasty but you can't let them loose in public once they do.

[Georgina Ebony]

Thanks so much Christina, she doesn't usually guard her ball actually other dogs at the park steal it off her all the time and she lets them, she had a recent vet check two weeks ago for her yearly injections and all was ok, i think i will take her back for another check up to make sure everything is ok.

She has been fine with my other dog but will keep an eye on them, i agree with you i don't feel comfortable for her sake and other dogs sake off the lead any more it's definitly not worth the risk

Thanks again for the advice.

Cheers

Georgina

[persephone]

At first thought, it sounds like she may have been very focussed on bringing her ball back ..and the other little dog made contact - bumped her/whatever .Unfortunately , then instinctive resource guarding behaviour was used..... much as if you were walking along a dark narrow laneway and someone poked you suddenly .. a lot of folks would turn aroound defensively!! I would!!!

if she growls normally .. then she is warning ..which is a good thing - silent bites are worse

I suggest NO toys if you do frequent dog parks ..keep ball play to home or deserted beach or something - walk her lots on lead ..and manage her 'personal space'

if a male tries to mount her she will sit and growl and they will leave her alone

'

sounds perfectly normal for a bitch who is not ready to mate ... esp a brood bitch!

[Georgina Ebony]

thanks so much persephone for the advise much appreciated, yes she is walked on lead every day which i will continue, also noted on the above

Thanks again

[cavNrott]

I think your dog was guarding her ball, particularly as she is ball obsessed. She of course should not have acted this way but the small dog owner is also at fault. The owner should have called their dog when they saw her running full speed at your dog. It was foolish of them to allow their dog to run at another dog who's engaged in playing fetch. It's imperative for dogs to have good recall if we are going to take them to a dog park. I understand they were angry but they were part of the equation in this.

It's probably a good idea if you don't play fetch when there are other dogs in the park. I would take her to the park on lead for a while and see how things pan out. Hopefully a small dog will run towards you when you are aware of what's going on and you can pre-empt what your dog's reaction will be by her body language. You're right there to step in if things don't look good.

I think this was probably a one off incident that will never happen again. Don't be upset with her. No dog is perfect all the time. For sure it was caused by her guarding her ball. From now on, fetch is off the agenda when other dogs are in the park.

Don't lose trust in her due to this incident. She sounds like a nice, well behaved dog who took exception to being ambushed by the small dog.

[tdierikx]

When my Lab girl was around the same age as yours, this is what she did to my Rottie/Pittie cross girl...

The Lab meant business, and despite 2.5 cans of capsicum spray, batons, and boots, she wasn't going to stop until she was too exhausted to stop. The wounds to the 2 front legs were to the bone, as the Lab was shaking her by the front legs to try and disable her enough to go in for the kill. The only thing that stopped that actually happening was that I had a hold of the Lab's tail and had her back legs off the ground to stop her getting purchase enough to finish the job.

This was 4 years ago now, and neither dog has run together since... and I don't take the Lab to dog parks any more either, purely because I know exactly what she is capable of if triggered to have a go.

The wounds to the Lab were all defensive and none were significant enough to need any stitching - the poor Rottie/Pittie cross girl just doesn't have that level of aggression in her - not even to save her own life... *sigh*

Note: the swelling on the Lab's face was due to the capsicum spray that got into the wounds, not due to their actual "severity"...

T.

[Salukifan]

I think you, your dog and the little dog were all very lucky. What your dog did was enough to have her declared dangerous and you are lucky that you're not footing a major vet bill. Dogs don't have to leave bite marks to do very serious damage when they shake a small dog – it can rupture internal organs or break their spine.

Yes, I'm probably coming across rather negative but there is no way known I'd be risking a repeat of that behaviour in a public dog park with a dog that now has a history of aggression.

If you want to find reasons for this, seek professional help. No one can tell you what your dog was doing without observation and qualifications but I can tell you that shaking like that is often a predatory response. Your dog might not have recognised the poodle x as a dog –- wouldn't be the first time that has happened.

I would not be exercising her in public offlead areas without seeking professional help first and probably not even then.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Haredown Whippets

[Loving my Oldies]

Don't lose trust in her due to this incident. She sounds like a nice, well behaved dog who took exception to being ambushed by the small dog.

I agree with this. It will do more harm if you are pressured into thinking you dog is a time bomb.

..... with a dog that now has a history of aggression.

I wouldn't have thought one incidence constitutes "a history".

I agree with all the posters who say not to play ball with your girl in the park. We all have to remember that a dog is a dog is a dog, not matter how happy, well socialised, or trained. We can't always tell what is going to trigger an unwanted response.

Athough a dog can be severely injured and even killed through just being shaken by another dog, if the poodle had been injured you would have heard by now. (I realise this is not the point though.) So I think you girl was just telling this dog off.

You've had a big fright and I hope it can be resolved and your enjoyment of your dogs is not diminished.

[Simply Grand]

I think you, your dog and the little dog were all very lucky. What your dog did was enough to have her declared dangerous and you are lucky that you're not footing a major vet bill. Dogs don't have to leave bite marks to do very serious damage when they shake a small dog – it can rupture internal organs or break their spine.

Yes, I'm probably coming across rather negative but there is no way known I'd be risking a repeat of that behaviour in a public dog park with a dog that now has a history of aggression.

If you want to find reasons for this, seek professional help. No one can tell you what your dog was doing without observation and qualifications but I can tell you that shaking like that is often a predatory response. Your dog might not have recognised the poodle x as a dog –- wouldn't be the first time that has happened.

I would not be exercising her in public offlead areas without seeking professional help first and probably not even then.

^ This, absolutely. Whatever the reason it happened your girl could easily have killed the other dog.

Without having seen exactly what happened I don't think anyone here can make an assessment.

I'm really sorry this has happened, it doesn't make her a bad dog but I do think you have to be very careful from now on.

[tdierikx]

I wouldn't lose trust in the dog either... but I'd be a hell of a lot more alert for warning signs that she may not be having the great time at the park we think she's having...

I won't take my Lab to a dog park now purely because I know exactly what level she can escalate to if her buttons are pressed "just so"... yet I trust her implicitly with my other 2 dogs and a myriad of foster puppies she has helped me raise to an adoptable state/age...

T.

[Amax-1]

My Lab is quite a dominant femaale and the breeder informed us that her mother was the same,

Perhaps the mother shouldn't have been bred is my immediate thought? Dominant alpha type dogs are not dog aggressive in the slightest unless challenged for leadership by another dominant dog wanting that role. Sounds more like the Lab has a low threshold to defence drive like her mum is where that came from.

[tdierikx]

My Lab is quite a dominant femaale and the breeder informed us that her mother was the same,

Perhaps the mother shouldn't have been bred is my immediate thought? Dominant alpha type dogs are not dog aggressive in the slightest unless challenged for leadership by another dominant dog wanting that role. Sounds more like the Lab has a low threshold to defence drive like her mum is where that came from.

Whatever...

The fact still remains that the OP wants some helpful advice on what to do next...

t.

[Salukifan]

..... with a dog that now has a history of aggression.

I wouldn't have thought one incidence constitutes "a history".

Really? Just how many times do you consider a dog has to aggress before you consider it has a "history". This wasn't just a yappys/snappy incident with no contact. I've yet to see a dog "tell another dog off" with it in its mouth shaking the shite out of it but perhaps that's just me.

Personally I think anyone counselling the OP NOT to take this seriously isn't doing her, her dog or other dogs any favours. There I go ruining things again.

Fortunately it seems the OP will be cautious in future - very wise.

Edited January 28, 2014 by Haredown Whippets

[Kirislin]

Perhaps also consider muzzling her in public from now on too.

[kelpiecuddles]

Just breathe and be sensible about future dog interactions. :) I know my kelpie will get cranky about other dogs 'in her face' when we are out and about, she's not an aggressive dog but she doesn't appreciate the unwanted attention and will make it clear that it's not appreciated. As I don't want to chance it going to a higher level where she may feel she needs to escalate to truly aggressive behaviour I manage any interactions and will place her on lead if other dogs are approaching until I am sure what the other dogs behaviour is like. She plays well with dogs who don't behave rudely to her she just doesn't tolerate rude puppies and adults who haven't been taught to greet other dogs appropriately.

[Simply Grand]

Plenty of dogs don't like rude behaviour or even just unexpected behavior, and will tell off dogs that demonstrate it, and many will guard balls in dog parks but as HW said grabbing by the neck and shaking is not a normal telling off behaviour, so if it was a telling off it was a highly inappropriate and dangerous one.

[Rebanne]

Don't lose trust in her due to this incident. She sounds like a nice, well behaved dog who took exception to being ambushed by the small dog.

I agree with this. It will do more harm if you are pressured into thinking you dog is a time bomb.

..... with a dog that now has a history of aggression.

I wouldn't have thought one incidence constitutes "a history".

I agree with all the posters who say not to play ball with your girl in the park. We all have to remember that a dog is a dog is a dog, not matter how happy, well socialised, or trained. We can't always tell what is going to trigger an unwanted response.

Athough a dog can be severely injured and even killed through just being shaken by another dog, if the poodle had been injured you would have heard by now. (I realise this is not the point though.) So I think you girl was just telling this dog off.

You've had a big fright and I hope it can be resolved and your enjoyment of your dogs is not diminished.

To grab and shake is not a "telling off", it's a "I'm going to kill you". Haredown Whippets is totally correct. This dog now has an aggressive history and should not be off lead around other dogs. I bet if one of my greyhounds grabbed and shook you'd be calling for it to be muzzled at a minimum.

[mumof4girls]

Just a question sorry OP for butting in .

My girl is aggressive on lead , she goes off when people with offlead dogs walk close to our back fence . She loves sucking her teddy and if she has it in her mouth when a dog comes close to our fence she will shake it madly . She has a high prey drive .

So is she shaking the teddy cause she wants to kill the dog that's off lead ? She normally doesn't display aggressive behavior off lead she barks but nothing like on lead . Just curious ..