Upgrading My Camera

[leopuppy04]

I'm looking at upgrading my camera body and possibly a lens and doing some shopping around. I was wondering if you could possibly give me your opinion on what you would recommend?

I currently have a 450D, which I've had for about 5 years. My main gripes with it is I would like a faster frame rate for agility. The ISO is also very low which means shooting in low light without a flash quite difficult. I'm currently looking at the 70D or 7D and wondering what he would recommend and the pros/ cons for both, given the 70D is very new, and the 7D is about 4 years old. I have also been recommended to look into the 6D but I don't know much about this camera.

The other question is lenses. One of my main lenses that I use is the 70-200 f4 USM. Absolutely love it. I'm now noticing a difference when I use the 18-85 base model lens and find that the clarity is just not the same. Mainly for portraits I use the 50mm f1.8 or the 24mm f2.8 however I would like a little more versatile lens and I'm tossing up between the Canon 24-105 f4 and the Sigma 24-70 f2.8.

Finally flashes - I would like to get a proper flash but I don't even know where to begin, what I should be looking for and what would make a good flash. Again, I've been recommended to look at the Yonangu (?) flashes.

[tdierikx]

I have 2 friends with the 70D... and it's image quality even in JPG mode is to die for! I have the 60D myself, and that was my upgrade from my 450D. I'd buy the 70D if I had the money... *sigh*

My cousin has the Canon 24-105, and as a pro photographer, he loves it! He is using the Canon 5DS Mk1 (I think that's waht he said it was) - and he wants the 5D Mk3, but hasn't got the money for it yet.

I'm no help for the shorter lenses, as I tend to do more zoom type photos (Zoo animals mostly)... I have the Canon 100-400mm 4.5-5.6 L and even though it's heavy, I love the images it is giving me on my 60D. Can't wait to try it out on the showjumping or woodchopping at the Sydney Royal... I got nice pics last year with my Tamron 18-270mm, but the 100-400 L should give even better pics... ya think?

As for flashes... no idea here sorry... never used one... errr!

T.

[Gertrude139]

Re bodies - My first question would be how do you use your camera.

Do you use auto or manual settings? I'm assuming manual but just checking.

Max ISO on the 7D is quite low so that may be a problem for you, but if you are getting a flash will you be needing to use high ISO? Both the 6D and 70D have high ISO and good low light performance.

The biggest difference of the three models you have mentioned would be that the 6D is a full frame sensor. Obvioulsy that full frame sensor is the difference in price, $500 or so, so it depends how much it means to you.

Max shutter speed is actually higher on the 7D and 70D than the 6D but I can't think of many applications where you would need more than 1/4000sec anyway

=6629&compare[]=7544&compare[]=7592"]Comparison

Re lenses - If you like the pretty background bokeh that you would be getting from your f1.8 and f2.8 lenses you may not be happy with an f4 for portraits, although you say you are happy with your 70-200 f4 so maybe not a problem?

Prime lenses (fixed eg 50mm, 24mm, 85mm etc) tend to be sharper than their equivalent level zoom, which is why portrait photographers will often use a collection of primes rather than a zoom like the 24-105 or 24-70.

If you will be carrying your camera gear around how important is it to you to have fewer lenses each with a large zoom rather than multiple smaller zoom or prime lenses? Are you happy to change lenses regularly or would you likely end up with one on there 90% of the time?

Flash - are you doing night photography? If it's just dusk or indoors etc you may be able to use a higher ISO rather than a flash if you get the 6D or 70D. I have a flash and very very rarely use it. Would you only want to use the flash on the body or would you want one with a transmitter that can be placed off camera for fill light? Canon speellite's are generally good flashes but just depends what features you want and how much you want to spend.

How much do you want to spend all up? That may determine which body/lens combo you get.

[leopuppy04]

Re bodies - My first question would be how do you use your camera.

Varies - on average a few times per month, but I may put it away for months and not use it at all.

Do you use auto or manual settings? I'm assuming manual but just checking.

manual

Max ISO on the 7D is quite low so that may be a problem for you, but if you are getting a flash will you be needing to use high ISO? Both the 6D and 70D have high ISO and good low light performance.

The biggest difference of the three models you have mentioned would be that the 6D is a full frame sensor. Obvioulsy that full frame sensor is the difference in price, $500 or so, so it depends how much it means to you.

Max shutter speed is actually higher on the 7D and 70D than the 6D but I can't think of many applications where you would need more than 1/4000sec anyway

=6629&compare[]=7544&compare[]=7592"]Comparison

The ISO on the 7D worries me a little. I would like to start shooting night shows and such, which is where the ISO will outrank the flash - because you are shooting the distance and I won't set up flash umbrellas or anything like that, the flash would blow out the image. For anything indoors, I would probably vote to use the flash. The full frame worries me slightly as I love the zoom and I know you loose a little magnification with the full frame. So I think that alone rules out the 6D for me.

Re lenses - If you like the pretty background bokeh that you would be getting from your f1.8 and f2.8 lenses you may not be happy with an f4 for portraits, although you say you are happy with your 70-200 f4 so maybe not a problem?

Depends what I'm shooting - indoors or portraits I tend to use the fixed lens, however for agility shooting and playing around with the dogs (candid shots), the zoom lenses are far more useful than the prime lenses. I find I still get great Bokeh even with that 70-200.

Prime lenses (fixed eg 50mm, 24mm, 85mm etc) tend to be sharper than their equivalent level zoom, which is why portrait photographers will often use a collection of primes rather than a zoom like the 24-105 or 24-70.

If you will be carrying your camera gear around how important is it to you to have fewer lenses each with a large zoom rather than multiple smaller zoom or prime lenses? Are you happy to change lenses regularly or would you likely end up with one on there 90% of the time?

Depends on the day - Happy to carry around lenses, but usually will just bring 1-2 lenses for the day and utilise those.

Flash - are you doing night photography? If it's just dusk or indoors etc you may be able to use a higher ISO rather than a flash if you get the 6D or 70D. I have a flash and very very rarely use it. Would you only want to use the flash on the body or would you want one with a transmitter that can be placed off camera for fill light? Canon speellite's are generally good flashes but just depends what features you want and how much you want to spend.

Mostly indoor photography - e.g.: photographing puppies inside - I don't like the flash directly on them (blow out of the image). but indoors can often be quite dark and you loose a lot of the quality of the image.

How much do you want to spend all up? That may determine which body/lens combo you get.

Not sure... but I can get a pretty sweet deal with canon equipment :)

[Gertrude139]

Well sounds like the 70D is probably the body for you, since you aren't keen on FF and the ISO is much lower on the 7D.

I agree if you want to shoot night shows at a distance then the ISO is quite important.

[RallyValley]

I have a 7D and shoot plenty at night (even dog shows), Max ISO isn't a big deal to me as you will get too much noise at high ISO anyway. The 7D has a superior focusing system and a higher rate of frames per minute then the 60D - not sure how it compares to 70D.

However saying that if you can afford it get the 6D.

[CrazyCresties]

In terms of a 'cheap' flash I got the Yongnuo 568ex for $220. Remote wireless control works with my 7D as does the HSS :) If you look on POTN there is a lot of info with regards to the Yongnuo models.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=35

I got mine from hypop and had prompt and excellent service from them :)

http://www.hypop.com.au/yongnuo-yn-568ex-high-speed-sync-hss-flash-speedlite-for-canon.html

[tlc]

If your budget allows get the 6D, its awesome and coupled with the 24-70 f.2.8 Sigma it is a wicked combo! I have that and other lenses but really with the 70-200f/4 (I love it too) together with the 24-70 you have a lot of the focal lengths covered.

With regard to losing some magnification with the full frame, the benefits of the full frame totally outweigh the magnification factor, I have not noticed it all all. I learnt pretty quickly using prime lens to zoom with my feet so if I want to get closer I just take a few steps forward. I guess this isn't always an option depending on what your shooting but you can always get a longer lens! the 100-400L would be an awesome option especially for the dogs and it give you another whole range over the 70-200. The IQ looks to be the same as they are both L.

Just my experience having owned the 7D and the 6D, for me it's not hard to compare I didn't like the 7D much I had a real love hate relationship with it, but the 6D I love I mean really seriously love it, better low iso performance nicer bokeh and DOF from the full frame is a winner for me. That being said my friend bought my 7D off me and it loving it!

I ended up getting a 430 ex II and it serves its purpose, I mostly shoot in daylight and use it occasionally for fill flash and sometimes for macro stuff.

Good luck with your decision its a big one!

[leopuppy04]

Thanks everyone for your input. So much to consider :)

TLC - i think the hard thing is when shooting agility you don't necessarily have the time to move with your feet as if you did you would miss that 'moment'... so that is something for me to consider too.

There are just too many choices! :laugh:

[Gertrude139]

Good luck! I know I agonised for ages over my decision.

From what you've said if you had the budget I would get the 6D and the largest zoom L series you could afford. Maybe the 100-400 or the 70-300. hard to say if that would suit though as it's getting exy. but maybe you could sell your 70-200 and get a bit for it IDK.

I agree with tlc that the FF aspect outweighs the loss in lens reach. I upgraded from a 40D to the 5Dmk3, in hindsight I probably could have saved a bit in buying the 6D and still loved it. (I should have listed to tlc's advice to me at the time :p)

[tlc]

All good points to consider and food for thought. When I shoot at our dog training days sometimes the 70-200 is not quite long enough and I imagine when you shoot agility you would really notice it as its quite fast moving and would be in a larger area. The 100-400 would be awesome for that then the crop factor or lack there of wouldn't be an issue.

lol@G139!

[tdierikx]

I love my 100-400... and you really can get used to using it handheld... I have biceps now... lol!

I got this shot handheld while the bird was travelling at least 60kph - and there's not a lot of cropping of the image either... takes some practice, but is oh so worth it!

27-10-2013-taronga 858-dixie2 by tdierikx, on Flickr

T.

[tlc]

Thats pretty awesome! What was your shutter speed for this shot?

Just another consideration for the 6D, the max shutter speed is 1/4000, so if you generally use a higher Shutter you might need to choose a different camera. I have never needed to use fasted than 1/4000.

[tdierikx]

f/5.6

1/1600 sec

ISO 320

Focal length 275m

The camera (60D) selects all of that stuff for me... I tend to shoot in the Sport preset and have AF on. Essentially, I just point the camera/lens at something I find interesting and press the magic clicky button... *grin*

T.

[helen]

I would recommend the 7D too. I would recommend a crop frame (not full frame like 6D) - you will not be able to zoom in as much with a full frame camera with the same lens attached, so if you want to zoom in you will have to spend much more in the price of a lens.

edited to add - I have full frame but am really considering getting a crop for shows for the same reason as above.

Edited February 6, 2014 by helen

[Kirislin]

I love my 100-400... and you really can get used to using it handheld... I have biceps now... lol!

I got this shot handheld while the bird was travelling at least 60kph - and there's not a lot of cropping of the image either... takes some practice, but is oh so worth it!

27-10-2013-taronga 858-dixie2 by tdierikx, on Flickr

T.

this shot reminds me I must renew my FOTZ membership!

[Linda K]

ah, the old full frame vs crop frame - consider that the mounts for a full frame camera may be different to some of the mounts on crop frame, so bear that in mind. I would always shoot wider open in a way to add light well before I start adjusting ISO< and finding ways to add natural light - I will do portrait shots indoors, but set up a room so that natural light is coming in. As far as I am concerned the ugly pin prick catchlights that one gets from a flash are not worth adding a flash to the equation. I use the 5D II and love its low light capabilities. To me, you need way wider open lens than an f4 and must admit had and sold the 24-105 F4 lens - it was just not a fast enough lens for me - I love shooting at F2 or wider. I would also go full frame very time - full frame is how cameras were designed, and how most lens were designed to work

[leopuppy04]

I would recommend the 7D too. I would recommend a crop frame (not full frame like 6D) - you will not be able to zoom in as much with a full frame camera with the same lens attached, so if you want to zoom in you will have to spend much more in the price of a lens.

edited to add - I have full frame but am really considering getting a crop for shows for the same reason as above.

That's my thoughts too Helen and currently the specs on the 70D outweigh the 7D. I know they are going to make a mk2 on the 7D but that will come with a higher price tag and I just can't afford it, so the 70D is a winner for me.

The verdict is still out on the lens. I currently have the 18-85 basic and I HATE it at the moment. Maybe people can help me and maybe the lens needs a clean but it's ability to AF is 0 and it's driving me nuts. Constantly zipping back and forth and just unable to choose it's focal point.... Ideas?!

So the advantage of the 24-70 is the lower fstop, but the overall versatility of the 24-105 wins out on me over that extra stop I think.... Why did everyone choose the one that they did?

ah, the old full frame vs crop frame - consider that the mounts for a full frame camera may be different to some of the mounts on crop frame, so bear that in mind. I would always shoot wider open in a way to add light well before I start adjusting ISO< and finding ways to add natural light - I will do portrait shots indoors, but set up a room so that natural light is coming in. As far as I am concerned the ugly pin prick catchlights that one gets from a flash are not worth adding a flash to the equation. I use the 5D II and love its low light capabilities. To me, you need way wider open lens than an f4 and must admit had and sold the 24-105 F4 lens - it was just not a fast enough lens for me - I love shooting at F2 or wider. I would also go full frame very time - full frame is how cameras were designed, and how most lens were designed to work

Another decision to sticking with my crop frame is that most of my lenses won't work on a full frame body