cavNrott Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I wouldn't doubt the diagnosis of osteosarcoma. It is perfectly clear to identify on xray even for a novice. The thing is your dog has advanced osteosarcoma which is why the leg has broken. Palliative care is out of the question. You need to ask yourself if you are keeping this dog alive for his benefit or because of the emotional pain it will cause you to have him euthanised. Sadly you will have to come to terms with this emotional pain within a short period of time even if you amputate. I know how difficult this decision is for you. My dog was the light of my life. She was my heart dog and now, 5 years after having her put to sleep I still miss her every day and I've had to learn to live without her, but I know what I did was right for her. With the help of the oncologist we were able to palliatively care for my dog dog and keep her pain free. Pain free was always my priority. I couldn't let my dog suffer. If you did the amputation to gain another, say, 4 months of life at his age, what about the pain and trauma of the amputation and the pain of recovery after the surgery. That would surely take a couple of months. The you have just a few short weeks left while your dog learns to deal with a missing limb, especially at his advanced age. Is it worth putting him through all that? I know this is a very painful time for you but what is best for your dog must come first. We are never ready to make the final decision that must be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 saltydog ... breathe. :) there are many differing opinions on D O L always , in these horrible scenarios - and we all know how it hurts. You ,as a responsible owner need to weigh up (write it down, perhaps?:) the pros & cons of each action for the QUALITY of life your boy has/will have. take into account the following ..as well as your needs/wants ... effects of anaesthetic/surgery recovery time pain appetite medications mobility during/after. toileting also bear in mind the hind leg/hip amputation will certainly have an effect on how his body moves ..and will make the other hind leg work harder . his general health/happiness his heart etc his activity levels ask specific questions on here ... we will discuss anything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wundahoo Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I'm sorry to hear about your dog. You certainly have a hard time ahead of you both. When you say he has a "broken leg" do you mean that his femur is fractured because of the tumour ? If so. this is termed a pathological fracture. It cannot be mended. It happens because the cancer has replaced the bone and other normal tissues. It is very painful. When osteosarcoma has reached this stage the cancer has usually metastasised to other places so amputation wont bring about a cure. It will, however, ease his pain once the surgery has healed. Amputation in these cases is usually a part of the palliative treatment and not done as an attempt to cure the patient but to help with maintaining a better quality of life with less pain for as long as possible. If you consider the amputation, your vet will probably also want to check his other hip to see if he has any signs of arthritis there as it will have to carry the full load and so it needs to be able to do that without causing him too much discomfort. If the surgery is done it will take about 4 weeks for him to recover from the procedure..... some dogs are really good within a week or so, others can take longer. Unless you have already done so, perhaps it would be a good idea to speak with a specialist as a second opinion to get an idea of how muh time and pain relief amputation can bring you both. Quality of life becomes the issue in these cases and palliative care is usually about decreasing pain and increasing mobility for as long as possible. Sometimes it can be difficult to differentiate between osteosarcoma of the femur and a serious form of infection (usually fungal) so a second opinion from a specialist might be a good idea, although most osteosarcs are easy to diagnose. If there is any doubt often a bone biopsy is suggested or if amputation is decided upon then the lesion is sent for testing. Either way it's still a serious condition and you will have a hard decion to make sooner or later. Hugs to you. It's never easy. Make a list of all the things that he likes to do and how his day generally went when he was well. Look at how he is behaving now and write down all the things that he is currently doing that are on the first list. Ask yourself when you think he was last at his happiest. Decide on a measure that gives you an indication of his pain levels and general comfort. Use a numerical scale if that makes it easy. Do this each day. Use these parameters daily to assess him. If you use a numbering system for each category then make a weekly graph if that helps too. I have always found this to be a good way to try to see how the situation is really, rather than how I might perceive, or WANT to perceive the situation. Our emotions almost always get in the way and so I think that to have a method of quantifying each day takes away the emotional fog that we can sometimes allow to cloud the reality. Hugs to you. It's never easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trifecta Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I'm so sorry you are going through this, SaltyDog. I too lost a wonderful companion to mandibular osteosarcoma about 18 months ago. I have nothing more to add to the insightful responses already posted here, but send you strength to face the coming days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltyDog Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 He has been very happy up to date. Looking back, he has slowed down and slept a lot...but not really noticeably, and we had chalked it down to him getting older...and he has put on about 4kg from his peak weight...which would slow him down. Even now, he doesn't seem to be distressed. He is on pain killers until we come to a decision...but too look at him, he seems happy. Eating, drinking wagging his tail when we pat him. All in all, he seems happy. It's just blown us out of the water have to make a decision on what is basically a healthy dog...and to hear his best case is 12-18 months, is just mind blowing given the lack of symptoms before this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I understand. Late last year my young and apparently healthy dear Burmese girl went in for a teeth clean and came out with a serious diagnosis that left us with only a month together despite trying everything possible. It's heartbreaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 we are all here coloured by our own experiences. My experience say PTS. I would never amputate for osteosarcoma and the fact the leg has already broken is very bad news. After my experience with how quickly a dog can go downhill with this disease and having my dog suffer for a few hrs when the pain killers stopped working suddenly until I could get a vet here, I will always PTS within 48 hrs of diagnoses. I would rather put down early then ever, ever wait and risk my dog suffering. I couldn't live through that again. That is my experience. Good luck with your decision, it is not easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentchild Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) I feel the same way as Rebanne, looking back now on how I cared for my osteo girl and how long I kept her alive with painkillers, and the long difficult months of keeping her comfortable, even though she was happy and bright still, now looking back I reflect and I do wish I had her PTS earlier - not because of how I feel or anything but just because of the sheer struggle I selfishly put her through in the hopes that she would have more good days - every day she had a happy smile on her face I kept her alive - and now looking back I feel like she was happy because that is what she does - she stays happy for me, with me, and I really should have done the right thing by her and let her go before she even felt any more pain. Back then I kept feeling that if I PTS I was "giving up on her" or even committing "murder", but now with the benefit of hindsight I see it all so differently. On the day before she was PTS she suffered a terrible seizure-type attack, I believe as a result of her medications, it was so traumatizing watching her lose herself and I will never forgive myself for it. It haunts me to this very day that I let her stay that one day extra. If my current dog was ever diagnosed with osteosarcoma again (touch wood), I think I would PTS much quicker, so that she will know no suffering and can leave in a dignified manner. My sorrow is a small price to pay for her peace. There is no right or wrong decision, it is all individual cases, and my heart really really goes out to you. I just wanted to share my thought process with you. If you look in the palliative care forum my thread is there which dictates very similiarly to the thoughts that are currently running through your post. At the end of the day our dogs give us so so so much, it is our final duty as their caretakers and our turn to do something for them. Osteo is a terrible, terrible disease but this experience will also help you learn and grow yourself as a pet owner and a human being. Cancer changes lives. Big hugs to you whatever you decide. Edited January 17, 2014 by silentchild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltyDog Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 We just spoke to Melbourne Uni specialist and are going in for some chest X-rays shortly...which, if it's spread will make our decision process more simplified. If it hasn't, we are weighing up the decision for surgery. But his broken leg, which is a pathological break, is like a ticking time bomb. He seems fairly happy at the moment but he HAS to be in pain...the vets have said the pathological break is less painful then a normal break, and he is in pain killers but even so it must be hurting like hell. So we need to make a decision ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Sending thoughts .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Our Grey had the same diagnosis & we opted to let her enjoy her time after discussing with other people & seeing dogs we board with similar procedures. Yes many dogs cope well but we decided it wasn't an option we wished to put her through . She enjoyed a few months of still being a dog before we new it was time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*kirty* Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 My work colleague went through this last year - old dog with osteosarc, she amputated and did chemo. I think they got 6 months with her. Personally, after seeing what she went through, I would PTS. Amputation is a massive surgery and I'm not sure that the benefits outweigh the negatives in thise case. I'm really sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaltyDog Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 We had a very good chat with out vet today, and had lung X-rays done, which came up clear. We have him booked for surgery Monday, obviously pending us making a decision over the weekend and being sure. The vet has told us he thinks at least 12 months with him, and 95% of that will be happy, quality time. He has also said it will most likely go to the lungs and that it will be quite quick when the time comes... We have also been told by a couple of specialists we have spoken to today, that there isn't much point doing surgery with no chemo...so we will opt for both. We are leaving towards surgery as he just seems so happy and wanting to fight...despite the discomfort of a broken leg and the pain of the tumor. If we can remove that, and get him past the 1-3 weeks of post op recovery, we can have another 12 or so months with our boy and prepare ourselves mentally for what is to come. We realise part of our decision is selfish...but when I made the PTS call on my other boy Jake, I could tell he wanted to give up by the look in his beautiful eyes...Thabo just doesn't seem to have that look, and his eyes tell me he wants to go on, just as much as we want him too. So we are ready to fight this and give him all the love and care he needs to get throught surgery and spend a quality 12 months with him. We are also currently investigating Chinese medicine, which we did with Jake and believed he got benefit from it. Even if we can prolong the cancer growth for a few months, it will be worth it we think. We still haven't 100% made a call either way, but we certainly feel surgery and fighting the brave fight with him is the best option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harley Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 what a difficult time for you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) It's something I would not put any of mine through.. I hope whichever way you go goes smoothly :) , and that your boy stays happy . (do we get to see pics of the boy we are sending thoughts to ? ) I;ll be thinking of you over the weekend . Edited January 17, 2014 by persephone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentchild Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Best of luck to you and your boy, SaltyDog. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyWal Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 It's something I would not put any of mine through.. I hope whichever way you go goes smoothly :) , and that your boy stays happy . (do we get to see pics of the boy we are sending thoughts to ? ) I;ll be thinking of you over the weekend . No I wouldn't either. I wish you and your boy all the best SaltyDog and sending hugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xyz Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I work for a surgeon and see this from time to time. Most dogs recover very quickly from the surgery and adapt quickly (he's obviously not using the leg now and coping well!). He will im sure be on quite suitabke pain medication and i bet he's up and walking in a day or 2! I would most certainly do the surgery for my dogs if they were healthy happy dog otherwise! Good luck, I will follow with interest :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (he's obviously not using the leg now and coping well!) it's only been around 24 hrs ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ish Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (edited) Keep in mind too that you're being advised of best case time frames (which I hope you get, and more) but worst case can be much shorter. My 4 year old GSD was put to sleep 10 days after her osteosarcoma diagnosis - her tumour growth was very rapid and surprised even our vet, who had given her several months to live. Wishing you the best, whatever your decision Edited January 17, 2014 by ish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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