A Hypothetical Question For Breeders

[kelpiecuddles]

Because she was bought as a pet only although she is on main register from fab bloodlines and although she's a lovely girl and research tells me is a reasonable basset I don't think she'd really compete with the good bassets that are out there. I'm quite willing to say she's nice but she's just not 'all that'

[kelpiecuddles]

Initially training is going to require a lot of travel, we aren't planning to get our first one intended for training for a little while yet once we are settled in our new house, my husband is living at home again and our youngest is at school. We do some fun work with our girl at home but she's already heading for 6 years old and by the time we get her to the standard we're looking at she'd be slowing down a lot. She's fun practice for at home but not suited to what I'm after.

[Salukifan]

My plans are more towards the working side of my breed, my son is keen to get in to showing but I have other plans for my dogs which are bred to standard truly fit for purpose dogs. Part of the reason I wanted to be able to chronicle our work on our own webpage and maybe a blog so that if we do decide down the track we wish to move in to breeding, our kennel name will be known and will hopefully speak for itself even though we may not have been particularly active in the show scene. Probably not such an issue if you are working with something like a herding breed but a large proportion of the dogs in my breed in Aus are bred for the show scene and are still great as working animals because it's a fit for purpose standard but their breeders aren't usually involved in that side of things so much.

What do you mean by "working"? You've got a pack scent hunting breed - are you talking about tracking? Personally that would not prove to me that your dog is fit for purpose (it's not breed specific and certainly not hunting ) but I suppose its better than nothing.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Haredown Whippets

[kelpiecuddles]

We are planning to train dogs for man-trailing work for search and rescue in bushland, it's hard work that will require my animals to be in top notch condition and able to work all day, a step up from regular tracking. Before anyone asks it's not the same as the current work that SARDA dogs do or the USAR training that Steve Austin put dogs through back in 2012. USAR is not the same as bushland man-trailing, bassets would not be ideally suited to USAR work.

And ys I realise it's not the original purpose but it's much the same level of fitness and still utilises the same breed traits that make them such good hunting dogs.

Edited January 15, 2014 by kelpiecuddles

[FHRP]

My plans are more towards the working side of my breed, my son is keen to get in to showing but I have other plans for my dogs which are bred to standard truly fit for purpose dogs. Part of the reason I wanted to be able to chronicle our work on our own webpage and maybe a blog so that if we do decide down the track we wish to move in to breeding, our kennel name will be known and will hopefully speak for itself even though we may not have been particularly active in the show scene. Probably not such an issue if you are working with something like a herding breed but a large proportion of the dogs in my breed in Aus are bred for the show scene and are still great as working animals because it's a fit for purpose standard but their breeders aren't usually involved in that side of things so much.

What do you mean by "working"? You've got a pack scent hunting breed - are you talking about tracking? Personally that would not prove to me that your dog is fit for purpose (it's not breed specific and certainly not hunting ) but I suppose its better than nothing.

(second bolding is mine) If you're trying to say that the show bred dogs in Australia are the same type as working Bassetts, I doubt very much that's the case. I'm not aware if there are any packs of 'working bassetts'in the country but this is the type used in packs in the UK, I doubt they'd do well in the show ring would you?

[kelpiecuddles]

No probably not, but the standard is still a fit for purpose standard, the differences come out of breeders preferences and perceptions of that standard. I certainly know my current basst has the fitness to go all day if I ask it of her so I have no concerns that the dogs with the necessary fitness can be got from the current stocks in this country.

If you look at something like a herding breed you will get people who breed only for work and their dogs may look nothing like a show dog, you get people who breed only for show and you gt cross over people who's dogs excel in both areas.

Edited January 15, 2014 by kelpiecuddles

[The Spotted Devil]

I guess it depends on the definition of "working" too....for a herding breed is it flyball or agility or herding trials or sheep dog trials or a dog that takes the place of several stock people on a station (and yard or paddock?). Similarly for Gundogs - RATG or retrieving trial or field trial or a hunting dog or other full time role. Each to their own as every role requires a different level and mix of skills.

[kelpiecuddles]

And to be honest apart from a bit more leg length the body type of my current basset isn't that dissimiliar from that one, show breeders tend to favour more wrinkles, etc but I specifically looked for a dog with less loose skin when I got Josie, that dog still has the prosternum, the front legs which are placed at the deepest part of the chest and come inwards with slightly pointed out front feet to support the heaviest part of their chest and from the pic it looks like the hindquarters nicely balance th front in terms of width. Would it wins shows, hell no, but it's got a reasonable body shape so it's breeders obviously use their dogs in the field and breed for what they like while still maintaining fitness. If you aren't breeding to standard because you aren't showing them obviously something like whether the dog is too tall to be shown won't factor in their breeding choices.

ETA: Obviously it's head isn't close to what we see in show bassets but once again, if you aren't breeding for show then you wouldn't care about it if it doesn't affect working ability

Edited January 15, 2014 by kelpiecuddles

[kelpiecuddles]

I like the way our dogs look here and I do feel that it's possible to breed to standard and still have working ability, there are bassets in Aus that show or come from strong show lines who also track, they are here but it's a small population so there aren't lots around

[FHRP]

If you aren't breeding to standard because you aren't showing them obviously something like whether the dog is too tall to be shown won't factor in their breeding choices.

ETA: Obviously it's head isn't close to what we see in show bassets but once again, if you aren't breeding for show then you wouldn't care about it if it doesn't affect working ability

I'm sorry, but you have gone on and on about the breeds standard being 'fit for purpose' (isn't every breeds standard originally set due to their original purpose?) and then say that people who work their dogs in their original field don't care if they aren't standard?? There is a reason the standard specifies a certain height range, length, head type etc. To give them the best structure to do their original purpose!

[mita]

My response was based on a breed that is specifically a companion dog.... & always was, in its history. With 'alerting' talents.

So I based my answer on what I've seen the 'prefixed' breeders (who show) achieve, both as individuals and working as a group.

I'm not a breeder myself, but I know what I see being maintained/developed in that breed, by those people. It's brilliant.

No problem, then, in ticking the no bloody way in the poll.

BUT I'm not talking about all breeds, where different purposes could apply. So I understand why 'Maybe' was polling well.

[Angeluca]

If you aren't breeding to standard because you aren't showing them obviously something like whether the dog is too tall to be shown won't factor in their breeding choices.

ETA: Obviously it's head isn't close to what we see in show bassets but once again, if you aren't breeding for show then you wouldn't care about it if it doesn't affect working ability

I'm sorry, but you have gone on and on about the breeds standard being 'fit for purpose' (isn't every breeds standard originally set due to their original purpose?) and then say that people who work their dogs in their original field don't care if they aren't standard?? There is a reason the standard specifies a certain height range, length, head type etc. To give them the best structure to do their original purpose!

Maybe originally but in here come interpretation and guidelines. Due to popularity of a certain look and exaggerations, some Grand champions. of certain breeds these days may fit standard but could never be fit for purpose.

Just a note, I applaud any Breeder able in this day and age to thrive in the show ring and their purpose activity. And I think these dogs should be what other breeders of the breed should strive for, Not more wrinkles, coat, colour or whatever has made the popular faze.

I'm not talking about little differences that if the dog wanted to and was trained to it could still preform. I'm talking about large differences like excessive loose skin, or shape like the GSD. Yes many show GSD's could still herd or guard, but some couldn't but still win a show cause they pretty or can stand nice or trot nice. Or other breeds they can't breathe normal but it looks good so grand champion status for them.

If a dogs look would prevent ability it shouldn't be winning shows or being bred from. Yet it still goes on.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Angeluca

[kelpiecuddles]

And I'm referring to fit for MY purpose, I feel that a dog like Josie who is bred to standard IS fit for purpose, that being the one I am using her for. I don't have a clue what purpose the person is using that dog for, maybe they need a faster dog that can cover ground quickly so that may be the type he needs to be fit for his purpose therefore he has chosen to deviate from a show standard. I need dogs that will track on lead at human pace and 5 1/2 years of working with my basset tells me that she is more than capable of that.

I know a person who used to own a standard dachshund who did endurance and cross country events with him, it was a beautiful dog from show lines but was still capable of what he asked of him despite his short legs.

[Bjelkier]

I like the way our dogs look here and I do feel that it's possible to breed to standard and still have working ability, there are bassets in Aus that show or come from strong show lines who also track, they are here but it's a small population so there aren't lots around

I think you'll also find it's not that the dogs can't work, it's that the owners don't have the time, money, interest or ability to work their dogs.

There is no doubt in my mind that my dogs can work, a boy I've bred has been working and doing great, but I don't have the time or money to show and work my dogs. I'll be giving showing a rest so I can title my dogs in other ways but some people aren't interested or able to do that.

[_PL_]

Genuine question but how do they go searching in australian bushland on those stumpy little legs?

[minimax]

Genuine question but how do they go searching in australian bushland on those stumpy little legs?

The Basset at my local park gets his long ears banged up and dirty and scratched just from romping around on the grass and cement, I'd hate to see them after bashing through the bush.

[kelpiecuddles]

We live on the edge of bushland, so my basset exercises in bushland all the time and has never had problems with her ears doing so, the only time she's ever cut her ear was when her kelpie sister and her were playing and got a bit rough :p I'm not sure why the one you see has so much trouble minimax, Josie's certainly get grotty but washing the ends of her ears isn't the end of the world and is more often a factor of the way she eats or them getting drool on them LOL

[minimax]

We live on the edge of bushland, so my basset exercises in bushland all the time and has never had problems with her ears doing so, the only time she's ever cut her ear was when her kelpie sister and her were playing and got a bit rough :p I'm not sure why the one you see has so much trouble minimax, Josie's certainly get grotty but washing the ends of her ears isn't the end of the world and is more often a factor of the way she eats or them getting drool on them LOL

He steps on them a lot when he's playing :laugh:

[kelpiecuddles]

There are some great illustrations on this page of what a good basset should look like for anyone interested: http://judgesl.com/Basset/basset.htm

I think it is important to understand that people who are breeding outside of the standard are breeding for their own reasons, if you went to a random non ANKC registered farmer in Aus who breeds his own working dogs for his own use and asked him why he bred X dog to Y dog he's probably going to tell you because they are his best workers, which simply means they are the best animals for his climate, topography and the type of animal they are herding. A standard bred basset doesn't suit every type of terrain, which is why I say I feel they are unsuited to USAR work(which would require them to traverse building rubble and similar) People who breed outside of the standard are breeding the type of dog THEY like, for THEIR conditions, for the type of hunting THEY are doing and the way THEY are doing it. That doesn't mean that a standard bred basset is unsuited to hunting or tracking work it just means that they prefer a different type of dog.

[kelpiecuddles]

The ones on this page are working bassets and much closer to the standard, very similar to the type of my girl. Not keen on the one at the very front, looks a little roached but could just be the way the dog was standing when the pic was taken.

http://www.hertsshow.com/attraction_details.php?attractionid=24721