Minimum Age For Sale Of Pups In Qld

[Boronia]

Very helpful woman at the council said that she would try to find the relevant data and email me back. I think she has contacted the RSPCA as well as the email may be a cut and paste (there is a reference to "Your Customer")

I have inserted XXXX's where the names were

This is her reply...

Hi XXXX

I have investigated the matters raised by you on Wednesday 15.01.14 and have been advised of the following: Unfortunately our processes are still being updated but hopefully the information below will assist.

RSPCA have jurisdiction to address this matter as a welfare issue. It simply may be something that the owners require being educated about only. The following is off their website:

RSPCA AUSTRALIA Puppies gradually wean off their mother's milk at around 8-12 weeks of age. By this time they are ready to eat puppy food and will be spending most of their time away from their mother, playing, eating and sleeping.

RSPCA Australia considers the minimum acceptable age for a puppy to be removed from the mother dog for adoption or purchase to be 8 weeks of age. Waiting until the puppy is at least 8 weeks of age will help to ensure that the puppy has received an adequate supply of milk from the mother dog.

Milk contains important nutrients needed for normal puppy growth and development and confers a certain degree of immunity to disease (puppies will still need to be vaccinated, please see your local vet for details).

There may be certain circumstances where puppies are weaned earlier than this, such as when they are orphaned or require intensive care.

There are a number of theories about how old or how young a puppy should be when it goes to its' new home.

Research was conducted on line and the laws in each Australian State and Territory were referenced including what they have to say about the legal age for selling or giving away puppies.

The results were based mainly on Pet Shops and Registered Breeders, however because the codes of Practices etc may only have pet shops in their title it also covered breeders - registered and not - see the ACT example for instance: *

ACT - Puppies must stay with their mother and siblings until they have attained 8 weeks of age except under exceptional circumstances -

Check out the ACT Code of Practice for Pet Shops at http://www.tams.act....petshopscop.pdf and be aware that the code explicitly states that it covers anyone selling puppies or kittens in the ACT *

Queensland Code of Practice for Pet Shops (The State of Queensland, Department of Primary Industries and Fisheries 2008)

(f) Minimum age of animals for acquisition for sale, subject to maturity, should be:

(i) dogs-eight weeks (seven weeks for large breeds) (ii) cats-eight weeks.

(g) Unweaned animals should not be accepted by pet shops.

(h) Any animal that is classified as a restricted or prohibited animal should not be acquired, displayed, offered for sale or sold by a pet shop.

(i) Animals that are not accepted for sale at point of delivery or cannot be sold should be returned to the breeder, re-directed to a local government pound or shelter such as RSPCA (Qld) or AWL (Qld), or euthanased as a last resort.

(j) Concerns about sub-standard animal sources (evidenced by, for example, repeated viral diseases, malnutrition, injuries or premature weaning) should be referred to appropriate authorities.

If you require any further information, I am happy to look into this for you.

If your customer has any further contact details regarding the owners/sellers of the pups that they would like to provide us, we could definitely give them a call and just 'have a chat' with them about owner responsibilities and what is best for the pups and allude to RSPCA's minimum standards also.

If your customer requires it, the RSPCA Cruelty phone number is 3426 9971.

Kind regards, XXXX

me again....so really we are not much further ahead as the code of practice is for pet shops and as my local council's processes are being updated I cannot get much sense on the local laws regarding the minimum age for homing pups.

At least they are now aware of all the details on the Pups For Sale notice

Edited January 16, 2014 by Boronia

[Steve]

So nothing is enforceable and they wont be doing anything about it.

[Boronia]

So nothing is enforceable and they wont be doing anything about it.

In a nutshell...yes.

eta, my comment is a little unfair as I reckon the ranger will contact the owner to have a chat about the numbers of dogs on the property anyway, but as to the pups ages there is nothing to be done

Edited January 16, 2014 by Boronia

[Agility Dogs]

As for breeder permits

Bris city do not provide permits for non registered (there is from memory ankc, greyhound and other registriea) so by a BYB breeding they are already contravening their Local Laws.

I don't think this is quite right.

The council doesn't know anything about my status with Dogs Qld, yet I have a breeders permit. (I chose to go this way so that I can choose whether or not to desex - all my dogs are desexed so I haven't told the council I'm a CCCQ member. The alternative 'Companion' animal permet mandates desexing.)

From my understanding they don't care if the pups are going on a registry or not. They simply want 'breeders' ie: people who have multiple litters from an individual dog or cat to be registered with them, keep the property appropriately clean and keep records of dogs that come and go from the property. This extends to people who 'show' dogs which includes trialling dogs, not just conformation showing.

http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/forms/ca10193_animal_permit_conditions_breeder_or_show.pdf

The ANKC, Greyhound etc comes in when it comes to registering individual dogs. ie: You don't have to desex an animal to get the discount if they are regsitered with any of the bodies you mentioned.

[SeeGee]

FYI Ipswich city council has breeder permits.

[Mystiqview]

As for breeder permits

Bris city do not provide permits for non registered (there is from memory ankc, greyhound and other registriea) so by a BYB breeding they are already contravening their Local Laws.

I don't think this is quite right.

The council doesn't know anything about my status with Dogs Qld, yet I have a breeders permit. (I chose to go this way so that I can choose whether or not to desex - all my dogs are desexed so I haven't told the council I'm a CCCQ member. The alternative 'Companion' animal permet mandates desexing.)

From my understanding they don't care if the pups are going on a registry or not. They simply want 'breeders' ie: people who have multiple litters from an individual dog or cat to be registered with them, keep the property appropriately clean and keep records of dogs that come and go from the property. This extends to people who 'show' dogs which includes trialling dogs, not just conformation showing.

http://www.brisbane.qld.gov.au/forms/ca10193_animal_permit_conditions_breeder_or_show.pdf

The ANKC, Greyhound etc comes in when it comes to registering individual dogs. ie: You don't have to desex an animal to get the discount if they are regsitered with any of the bodies you mentioned.

BCC has two permits: A breeder's permit - this allows you to breed your animals. Although will allow ONE "accident" where no permit is required.

And a domestic animal permit - allows you to keep more than two dogs (providing they are desexed)

I did have this novel idea to live in suburbia and had a breeders permit with BCC. When I held my permit with BCC, I had to be a member and prove registry to Dogs Qld and had to produce my Dogs Qld ID to Council. I have since moved back to the family property (and less neighbours) in Moreton Shire Council where I have kept my permit valid from when I used to live there.

When I first lived in Moreton Shire (Then Pine Rivers Shire), only registered breeders were given breeder's permits. I know that Moreton has laxed the rules to include non registered breeders and have hiked the permit fees (so they claim to be "inline with other councils" from $40/year to over $100/year in 2013).

BCC's animal companion permit only allows you to keep excess (ie more than 2 dogs) - similar to one in Moreton Shire.

When I was a Animal Management Officer with Ipswich, we did not have breeder's permits. When I left there in 2012 they were doing talks with other councils to come inline with them and were talking about introducing Breeder Permits. So going be SeeGee's comment - they have introduced this.

[Boronia]

Went to the local IGA this morning and lo-and-behold the guy that is selling the pups was there with the pups and mother in the back of his tray-back, he has the For Sale notices sticky-taped to the sides of the tray.

The mother is in dreadful condition...ribs sticking out. The pups were still suckling while she was standing up.

I have rung the RSPCA and put in a complaint --> ( Cruelty Complaints & Animal Emergencies (including Wildlife) 1300 ANIMAL (1300 264 625)

[sheena]

Went to the local IGA this morning and lo-and-behold the guy that is selling the pups was there with the pups and mother in the back of his tray-back, he has the For Sale notices sticky-taped to the sides of the tray.

The mother is in dreadful condition...ribs sticking out. The pups were still suckling while she was standing up.

I have rung the RSPCA and put in a complaint --> ( Cruelty Complaints & Animal Emergencies (including Wildlife) 1300 ANIMAL (1300 264 625)

Maybe a rescue group could get hold of them.....what type of pups are they??

ETA Sorry just read your first post again

Edited January 18, 2014 by sheena

[Angeluca]

Went to the local IGA this morning and lo-and-behold the guy that is selling the pups was there with the pups and mother in the back of his tray-back, he has the For Sale notices sticky-taped to the sides of the tray.

The mother is in dreadful condition...ribs sticking out. The pups were still suckling while she was standing up.

I have rung the RSPCA and put in a complaint --> ( Cruelty Complaints & Animal Emergencies (including Wildlife) 1300 ANIMAL (1300 264 625)

Maybe a rescue group could get hold of them.....what type of pups are they??

ETA Sorry just read your first post again

maybe take photos which include the number plate as well but they time the authorities get off thier asses pups will be sold and he would have gone home and tied the mum to some tree.

This is bull shit. I just homed my litter of babies, could never just do that to them i owe them and their mum so much more.

[Boronia]

I was telling a woman in the library and was overheard, three of the overheard-me-library-patrons (one was a bloke who looked up the cruelty complaints number on his phone) headed off to the IGA to get the rego number and to find out any more info to notify the RSPCA.

Library peeps are not wimps where doggie-welfare is concerned

[Angeluca]

I was telling a woman in the library and was overheard, three of the overheard-me-library-patrons (one was a bloke who looked up the cruelty complaints number on his phone) headed off to the IGA to get the rego number and to find out any more info to notify the RSPCA.

Library peeps are not wimps where doggie-welfare is concerned

hope they made it in time.

[Boronia]

I phoned the council this morning, the woman took down all the details including the owner's phone number, I got a call back in around 10 minutes saying that they couldn't do much as the phone number (a mobile) didn't match any of their databases.

I have an idea the council are not allowed to phone someone and trick them into giving them their address.

I could phone and pretend I'm interested in the pups but my phone number will show up on their phone and the owners did look kinda feral, so I am not going to do that.

[Mystiqview]

Boronia

You can block the sending of your number when you call. If you text, it will show up and you cannot stop that.

Depending on the type of phone, go into call setting and select " don't show number" when you call, the number will come up blocked.

You can also do it from landlines, although the codes are different.

It does sound though that Council is not interested in following it up. The best you could do is try to get an address from them to try to see them there - that is providing they give you their home address and not a a local park or something.

[Steve]

I phoned the council this morning, the woman took down all the details including the owner's phone number, I got a call back in around 10 minutes saying that they couldn't do much as the phone number (a mobile) didn't match any of their databases.

I have an idea the council are not allowed to phone someone and trick them into giving them their address.

I could phone and pretend I'm interested in the pups but my phone number will show up on their phone and the owners did look kinda feral, so I am not going to do that.

So you have to go to the council before you do anything shonky so they can have you on their databases when they need to ping you - what a bloody joke