Why Doesn't The Ankc (like Most Clubs) Keep Death Stats

[kelpiecuddles]

Well it means bugger all unless you can identify exactly what is bringing that number down so far. Also how do you select for longer life if you don't know the answer to how long will this dog live? until it's dead, can't breed it at that point LOL If there are lines that are genuinely simply dying of old age related issues that young I'd be wondering whether those lines should just be essentially thrown out, I certainly wouldn't be using them as a source of breeding stock.

[Steve]

Well it means bugger all unless you can identify exactly what is bringing that number down so far. Also how do you select for longer life if you don't know the answer to how long will this dog live? until it's dead, can't breed it at that point LOL If there are lines that are genuinely simply dying of old age related issues that young I'd be wondering whether those lines should just be essentially thrown out, I certainly wouldn't be using them as a source of breeding stock.

It would have to be way up there with difficult things to attempt as a breeder I think. Its rare for one of the beagles Ive bred to die of natural causes before they are 15 some have lived till their early 20's - but it takes over a decade to know if you have a dog that's going to live till very old age and there are so many variables which may impact . My Maremma do well also with the oldest here being 16 but if I throw in numbers for a couple that died young from snake bite that would muck up the averages. Most animal breeding doesn't place much importance on longevity because they are used for breeding or food young and in the main low longevity is blamed on in-breeding without considering that it may be the fact that selection for longevity isn't happening or that some characteristic in the breed is linked to lack of longevity.By the time you work out there is a problem its a huge ask to make it better.

[kelpiecuddles]

Plus if a breed has very low numbers it only takes just a few animals dying young to muck things up.

How much of it is environmental do you think? My dogs are lean and fit and everyone is very surprised when I say my kelpie is nearly ten and my basset is 5, most people seem to place my basset at around 2 and the kelpie at around 4. I credit the way I keep them as the reason for their health and 'youthful good looks' LOL. I will be interested to see what sort of lifespan they have because neither have shown any signs of age related issues or slowing down any time soon.

[Diva]

Also how do you select for longer life if you don't know the answer to how long will this dog live? until it's dead, can't breed it at that point LOL

You can look at how long parents, g/parents and other relatives have lived. You can use older dogs, or even better store semen from a young dog and use it when his longevity is proven. And dead males are bred, I have heard of litters from frozen semen over 20 years in storage.

[kelpiecuddles]

True Diva, it does make it a very long term breeding goal though doesn't it, which is a good thing but it's a bit like asking politicians to look past their four years LOL

[Diva]

True Diva, it does make it a very long term breeding goal though doesn't it, which is a good thing but it's a bit like asking politicians to look past their four years LOL

Yep. A good goal though, if it is for a long healthy life. Not so good if it is just length and not quality of course so you do need those who know the 'family' lines to be well informed and honest about the family history. That isn't aways easy info to get, which I guess takes us back to the OP, kind of.

I did make longevity a priority when I went looking for sires. It wasn't top of the list by any means but it was in the reckoning.

Edited January 15, 2014 by Diva

[sandgrubber]

If you play with the Finnish data, you'll find various surprises. Attached is the data for the ASBT. Note that for dogs who make it to old age, average age of death is 12 1/3 yrs. But accidents and euthanasia for behavioral reasons knock off around one in four dogs, typically at an age of 3 to 4. Also note that skeletal or articular disease takes a huge toll at a pretty young age. Cancer, on the other hand, takes out older dogs. Because there are major causes of early death, the average life expectancy for the breed as a whole is a bit under six years.

see http://jalostus.kennelliitto.fi/frmTerveystilastot.aspx?R=122&Lang=en

If I were an ASBT breeder, these stats would carry some strong messages, eg, that screening for skeletal/articular disease (I presume this includes HD and OSD) is a necessity, that breeding for good temperament is a must, and that puppy buyers should be screened carefully to avoid people who won't be careful of things like fencing.

I suspect the reason many breeds come out with shockingly short lifespans in the Finnish data it that the data accounts for deaths we tend to forget . . . ie, accidents, pts's for behaviour, chronic diseases with early onset. I think it's important that both breeders and puppy buyers are aware of the things that pick off dogs when they are young, and work to prevent premature deaths.

Edited January 15, 2014 by sandgrubber