I Hoped I Would Never Have To Ask This :(

[Starkehre]

"Reasons" and "Excuses" are totally different things.

The reason for certain behaviours may or may not be because a dog is a rescue dog. Regardless of whether or not it is the reason, it is still not an excuse and should never be excused.

This is what I am saying

Yes. It seems this is what most are trying to say. I think pretty much everyone would agree. I was just reiterating. :)

Edited January 6, 2014 by dyzney

[hankdog]

When I greet people with Jake I say "my dog has social problems" I think it's a quick way of saying please don't throw yourself on him and just give him space. If they're interested I'll go on to say he's a rescue to me so I'm unsure of his exact history...blah blah.

My door opening goes this way.

Knock on door, barking run to the door.

Clip on leash tell him to sit and quiet. ( commands he's been taught)

I then explain to the person through the side glass panel that I will unlock the door and step back. When I say so they are to open the door and remain standing there and ignore the dog until I say so.

If they open the door and start talking g to him, trying to pat him or whatever they're not suitable and the dog is put in a different room.

If they're suitable and Jake is calm and responding to my "look" command and calmly taking treats then I approach them. Still on lead and still no interaction from them.

He is then given "free" command and everyone can pat him.

If he's behaving in the work room I'll often let visitors command him for tricks and give him treats for listening.

This is a routine for him now and he's comfortable with this "script."

Giving a dog a new way to behave in a situation is important and really it's like a piece of theater that you rehearse. The key is consistency, practice and repeat. Start with fake door knocks, knock on wall and say the look command. Break it down and at each stage the dog must look at you.

Avoid people who won't listen to you around the dog, particularly avoid people who think they are "dog whisperers". They'll try doing weird things behind your back and it can end badly.

ETA ms Overall has a calming protocol that runs over 28 days. You build up a solid stay including knocking on the door and leaving the room. It's really excellent.

Edited January 7, 2014 by hankdog

[Guest Ams]

The hardest part is training the other humans to do what you ask.

[playfulpiscean]

Pets Haven is responsible? All about moving animals to make money? Please be careful with your choice of words. I'd love to know where all the money is - I have been a PH volunteer for 4 years and know first hand about money - THERE IS NONE. They struggle every day. This animal was taken from a horrendous situation and rehomed to an adopter that was very obviously dishonest about it's potential living situation. Then palmed it off when it all got too hard. They were also well aware of the dogs history and requirements for a full and happy life.

Well Pets Haven is irresponsible to say the least, its all about moving animals through their shop to make money. And your story is one of many

[Leah82]

Interesting. Do you know if this dog was temp tested thoroughly and if so what were the results. Also why wasn't a house check done on the initial adoptee, or at least have the dog taken to the house for a meet and greet prior to a formal adoption

Considering the number of dogs that end up in the pound it's very clear that people lie about their circumstances and they don't expect their cute dog to then turn into a destructive monster.

Surely the rescue organisation is responsible for making sure that they match their dogs with the best possible owner using every resource available and not just one person's story

[Inka3095]

I'm not 100% sure of the circumstances surrounding her most recent home as the girl had adopted from the Pets Haven foster-carer. I didn't ask if she had been required to offer a home check etc. I also don't know if she'd been thoroughly temperament tested.

I doubt she lied about her living situation though, she would have had no desire to do so. She was a lovely girl who did what she could for Kirra but just didn't work out best for this dog, so she rehomed her again once she'd accepted this. Some rescue groups don't rule people out based on no backyard, or working full-time if they can offer the dog heaps of walks and attention once they're home. I can only assume all this was disclosed and unfortunately for Kirra, it just wasn't enough for her.

We've had a trainer come to the house for the first of three sessions. I wasn't able to be there but Mum is feeling much more positive about Kirra's behaviour being something to work with. We'll have two more sessions and then if improvement isn't satisfactory we can talk about further training options from there including group classes etc.

[megan_]

I know nothing of this case but I HATE it when rescue groups say that someone gave up/ palmed off the dog when it got too hard. If you don't have the skills and resources to cope with a fear aggressive dog then giving it up is the right thing to do. What else do you want this person to do ? I have a fear aggressive dog and I love her to bits . She has cost me a lot of $ and time though. I'm single so I can cope but if I had kids she would have gone to heaven a long time ago. It is also a big drama to have people over and requires planning. It is really hard not to be able to have a friend just pop over for coffee . I wouldn't be able to have a relationship either as she randomly attacks on her territory. This is NOT the life that rescue groups should give people when they adopt a dog, and then have the nerve to say that ithe adopter is requirements giving up when it is too hard. A FA dog needs to go to a known expert (someone that you know and trust) or go to heaven. There are no other responsible options. None.

t

Pets Haven is responsible? All about moving animals to make money? Please be careful with your choice of words. I'd love to know where all the money is - I have been a PH volunteer for 4 years and know first hand about money - THERE IS NONE. They struggle every day. This animal was taken from a horrendous situation and rehomed to an adopter that was very obviously dishonest about it's potential living situation. Then palmed it off when it all got too hard. They were also well aware of the dogs history and requirements for a full and happy life.

Well Pets Haven is irresponsible to say the least, its all about moving animals through their shop to make money. And your story is one of many

[persephone]

I know nothing of this case but I HATE it when rescue groups say that someone gave up/ palmed off the dog when it got too hard. If you don't have the skills and resources to cope with a fear aggressive dog then giving it up is the right thing to do. What else do you want this person to do ? I have a fear aggressive dog and I love her to bits . She has cost me a lot of $ and time though. I'm single so I can cope but if I had kids she would have gone to heaven a long time ago. It is also a big drama to have people over and requires planning. It is really hard not to be able to have a friend just pop over for coffee . I wouldn't be able to have a relationship either as she randomly attacks on her territory. This is NOT the life that rescue groups should give people when they adopt a dog, and then have the nerve to say that ithe adopter is requirements giving up when it is too hard. A FA dog needs to go to a known expert (someone that you know and trust) or go to heaven. There are no other responsible options. None.

[playfulpiscean]

I'm not 100% sure of the circumstances surrounding her most recent home as the girl had adopted from the Pets Haven foster-carer. I didn't ask if she had been required to offer a home check etc. I also don't know if she'd been thoroughly temperament tested.

I doubt she lied about her living situation though, she would have had no desire to do so. She was a lovely girl who did what she could for Kirra but just didn't work out best for this dog, so she rehomed her again once she'd accepted this. Some rescue groups don't rule people out based on no backyard, or working full-time if they can offer the dog heaps of walks and attention once they're home. I can only assume all this was disclosed and unfortunately for Kirra, it just wasn't enough for her.

We've had a trainer come to the house for the first of three sessions. I wasn't able to be there but Mum is feeling much more positive about Kirra's behaviour being something to work with. We'll have two more sessions and then if improvement isn't satisfactory we can talk about further training options from there including group classes etc.

My point was that had this girl told Pets Haven that she lived in a 'tiny terrace house with no backyard' she would not have been considered an appropriate adopter for this dog. And yes for those asking Pets Haven temp tests all dogs per the Code of Practice. I wonder if she had even attempted to contact PH for any advice? At the end of the day, I hope Kirra is improving - you sound like a lovely girl who wants only the best for this poor dog.

[Inka3095]

Kirra IS improving!

My parents have had a really nice, practical dog trainer come to their house for 3 training sessions and we have noticed marked improvement

- she waits at doors and asks to be allowed through

- she no longer goes insane at the vaccuum cleaner

- she will 'quiet' and stop barking at strangers who come to the front door

- she 'goes to her bed' when we're eating and doesn't beg for food

Overall she's a lot calmer, less anxious and a much more pleasant dog. I'm hoping that with continued training she'll only continue to improve. She has a long way to go but my parents are besotted and I struggle to get them to talk about anything else except Kirra's latest escapades hehe.

Not sure if I'd trust her with a male stranger in the house yet, just in case, but we're working with her

Thanks for your help guys - I'll keep you updated!

[hankdog]

That's so great to hear. No dog is perfect and I think the ones that need a bit of work burrow deeper into your heart.

[persephone]

so good to read :)

[mita]

Great news, Inka.

[dogbesotted]

another example of a small group of committed people working together to make a change!!! great work... in this day it seems there is such a huge demand for instant everything that the big thing get thrown away because it takes time and effort

Kirra is a fortunate dog and your parents are wonderful responsible dog people

Helen

[Simply Grand]

What a great update :) I agree Kirra is a lucky girl to have found your family.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Then Mum recently had a guy come over to help set up some electronic equipment. Kirra met him with some barking but nothing too bad. Then whilst he was inside the house he stood up quickly and she did the same thing. Barked hysterically and lunged at his hands, nipping him hard enough to hurt and scare him but didn't draw blood (for whatever that's worth).

My dog is completely different at home, than she is outside the home. I don't have people over much, and I'm really careful about what opportunity she has to interact. She's cattle dog x and they are notorious for being unfriendly with strangers and nipping.

Barking and scolding - leads to nipping.

So if this had been me.

1. dog would not have been where she could get to the tradesperson.

2. barking is a sign of a dog trying to get control of situation - which the tradie ignored. And your Mum ignored instead of asking the tradesman to keep still while she removed the dog.

I call this kind of situation a "Clustr Fsk" where "little" things going wrong - together lead to a major stuff up.

With my dog - I've had her since 10 weeks old puppy - so I can't blame any bad treatment she might have had before I got her. I just have to deal with what she's telling me and prevent it as much as possible. And most of it is understandable and explainable - she did this because of ... but not always predictable - because she doesn't react the same way to similar situations every time. Which also makes it hard to train her to be more relaxed about these kinds of situations.

[dancinbcs]

Kirra IS improving!

My parents have had a really nice, practical dog trainer come to their house for 3 training sessions and we have noticed marked improvement

- she waits at doors and asks to be allowed through

- she no longer goes insane at the vaccuum cleaner

- she will 'quiet' and stop barking at strangers who come to the front door

- she 'goes to her bed' when we're eating and doesn't beg for food

Overall she's a lot calmer, less anxious and a much more pleasant dog. I'm hoping that with continued training she'll only continue to improve. She has a long way to go but my parents are besotted and I struggle to get them to talk about anything else except Kirra's latest escapades hehe.

Not sure if I'd trust her with a male stranger in the house yet, just in case, but we're working with her

Thanks for your help guys - I'll keep you updated!

Good news. Also keep in mind that herding breeds often do nip. It is no indication that they will ever bite harder because most never do but owning them means you do get nipped at times when they are excited and for this reason I always warn buyers to lock the dog away if kids are playing chasing games as the dog will join in and try to herd the kids and may nip in excitement. If they feel threatened they do exactly what they would do to a sheep that threatens them. They nip to make whoever threatens them, back off. Some are also very territorial. I would never have trusted most of my very social BCs with a stranger in the house. They have always been kept locked away from any tradies working in the house to ensure nothing like this ever happens. Visitors were always carefully introduced to the dogs one at a time, with the dogs on lead first. A dog that is wary about strangers in your home is a good guard dog. She just needs to learn when she should guard and when you don't want her to and that comes down to general control that you are already working on.