So Why Are Breeders Reluctant To Advertise Where There Is A Demand For

[mita]

.... yes, and pet buyers will develop preferences, too. And make their choices.

I like going to the mainly show breeders who will retire their dogs. No.... not because I'm saying they're better. But I prefer what comes with that. The dogs have benefitted from the social aspects of being shown & transported & handled/exposed to strangers. Among other things.

Others will make other choices. Like starting with a puppy...

BUT I had to learn where to go to find breeders like that.... Dogzonline is a great starting point. So is going to dog shows.

The OP made the point that many members of the public haven't yet learned where to start finding a purebred.... which was her reason for asking people to consider going where the pet buying public tend to go.

So that's still a good debatable issue.... how to get access to purebreds closer to the general pet-buying public. I wish Dogzonline could get a PR profile as widespread as PetRescue (or close to!) :) All the pet people I've referred to Dogzonline have been thrilled pink to find such a resource.

Edited January 3, 2014 by mita

[BlackJaq]

I also refer people to DOL and most never knew there was such a thing!

But not everybody has someone around who knows these things and those people could benefit greatly from breeders who advertise on pages or in papers more known to the general public. If they don't know it exists they won't be looking for it!

[Little Gifts]

I have an old school friend on FB who recently got a catahoula and said she was going to breed from it (I think in an arrangement with the breeder she got hers from). Since she has not bred any dogs before I asked if she was aware of DOL and suggested she join it because of what a great resource it is. Plus that breed is still rare out here so I'm sure we'd all like to see pics of a litter!

[The Spotted Devil]

OT - but LG I had a Catahoula in my puppy class recently. That's a whole lot of dog.

I had no idea about DOL until Zig was at least a year old - was recommended to check it out by a UK forum friend! Fortunately I got lucky in terms of a word of mouth breeder recommendation - and waited 2 years for a pup because of a good gut feeling - but my last dog (purebred but associate no papers as was normal) lived for 17 years so I was completely out of the loop in terms of where to start looking. Of course once you have a good dog and trial them it's easier to make connections for the next dog and so on. The vast majority of puppy farm dogs that I see in classes have owners who really thought they were doing the right thing - the marketing is clever.

[Trisven13]

With my last litters I was lucky that the DOL listing was sufficient to find homes for my puppies as one of the "find a dog" websites has Fauves on it these days (I *think* the Purina one). I wasn't expecting it to be so easy and had thought that I would probably advertise on-line elsewhere. I won't lie, I was concerned about the risk of censure from some.

[minimax]

So, (by some peoples unrealistic judgements) breeders aren't meant to sell the pups they aren't keeping to show to the pet market. Are they meant to keep every pup from a litter of 10?

Where do pets come from, if that's the case? And I hope people aren't about to judge people for hoarding :laugh:

[WoofnHoof]

It's actually really interesting this has been happening in the dog world for some time but just recently things have ramped up in the horse world. There is starting to become a rescue mentality in the general public because a lot of the sales and doggers are starting to get attention on facebook and other social media. So in some cases huge prices are being gotten for what are essentially dog horses and breeder culls (ie colts that aren't being kept for stallions and they don't want to spend money to geld and raise to saleable age). We see this in the dog world too with the promotion of rescue as the preferred choice over any breeder registered or otherwise, it all pervades into the public psyche and influences purchasing choices.

A topic was started recently bemoaning the fact that these unpapered dog horses are fetching ridiculous prices, almost that of well bred papered animals, I mentioned that clearly the ethical breeding world is being left behind because they often don't have a great online presence nor an interest in advertising in certain avenues. In response to this many of the same issues as being spoken about here were raised, good breeders have a waiting list, don't need to advertise, don't want to deal with numpties etc. IMO this is a very short sighted view and contributes to the general public's indifference towards breeders, if you aren't out there promoting good breeding ethics and promoting your breed, then people will not value that piece of paper that your registered animal comes with. At the moment many people think "it's just a piece of paper" they don't understand the depth of knowledge and surety that comes with that registration, the respect that many people have of purebred animals is largely traditional and instinctive, leftover from the days when the knowledge was already out there. The origins and purpose of this knowledge have been lost in this current day and age because the marketing of animals has changed, the message is being lost because others have a stronger presence in the public mind. Add to that negative publicity of defective purebred animals and you have a general public that is more amenable to taking chances on unpapered stock. Papers of a sort are still desired by most buyers though as evidenced by the emergence of sporting and colour registries, that is a whole other topic though.

Registered breeders and breed clubs especially need to be more market savvy and publicity oriented if they don't want to just lament the loss of the good old days, if they want things to improve. The culture has changed, the way we get information has drastically changed and continues to change, the old traditions are great and valuable but they need to be facilitated into the new social model so that the message is heard. Otherwise it's just whinging and achieves nothing.

[Kajtek]

I get sick of hearing the "good breeders only breed when they need a puppy" and all that crap, too. Where are good quality pets and working dogs going to come from if good quality breeders don't breed them? As many reg breeders here have said, puppies could be sold many times over, maybe more good puppies need to be bred to help satisfy customer demand. Many people just want a nice pet and when they can't find one from a reg breeder they will take the next best thing (and many don't even know why a reg breeder is the place to go) from a pet shop or byb

Thank you.

[JessicaM]

I agree with with your post, not everyone knows about dogzonline and if they are looking for a dog they will most likely look in newspapers or online. That is where people will be looking and searching.

I think it is disgusting how breeders CAN be quick to judge others for advertising on gumtree or a trading post add.

My mum bought a GSD who is pedigree through a new paper add, I would have never become involved in the pedigree world if she didn't advertise, I just didn't know.

[Sheridan]

Registered breeders and breed clubs especially need to be more market savvy and publicity oriented if they don't want to just lament the loss of the good old days, if they want things to improve. The culture has changed, the way we get information has drastically changed and continues to change, the old traditions are great and valuable but they need to be facilitated into the new social model so that the message is heard. Otherwise it's just whinging and achieves nothing.

DOLers have been complaining about this since I've been a member. And everytime a thread like this comes up, someone says what you've said about being proactive. Then someone will suggest a FB page or a brochure (many years ago, that was me, when brochures were the thing) or a sticker or a website. At some point someone will demand to know what others are to promote pedigree dogs.

And then everyone realises that someone actually has to do the work. That's the point where the thread dies. Until next time when the whole thing starts all over again.

[Steve]

Agree with Sheridan - but if we want to be able to advertise anywhere we want and not get the crap beaten out of us because we do its going to take all of us deciding to stand up to to them - not care what they say about us and advertise in those places again as a movement .The chances of that happening - unlikely - we have become in the main a group of people who do all we can to keep our camp fires low and most of us don't need to advertise in those places so reward doesn't equal effort and the beating we take to our image.

[Mystiqview]

Who cares where a breeder advertises? So long as the breeder does the right thing by the breed, does the health tests and raises and sells their puppies responsibly and ethically, the advertisement means not important.

Unfortunately and sadly, just because a breeder has a CCC prefix and membership does not automatically make them ethical. Those in each breed know who the bad apples are, yet they can advertise in the same places and be thought of to be just as ethical as they have also advertised on Dogs Online along with the ethical breeders of the same breed/s.

It is sad to see the same ads week in and week out from the same breeders constantly advertising litters and puppies. Some and I have read similar comments from other breeders of those who have near permanent ads on Dogs Online selling puppies with a near constant stream of upcoming litters. yet because they advertise on a pedigree web site, it is all ok. yet someone who may breed one or two litters a year advertising in the local paper, gumtree or elsewhere is a bad bad person.

[Marion 01]

The public look in the dog and pets column of the local newspapers, or on gumtree. My neice recently lost her epileptic Boxer and bought another pup on New Years day for $300. I said to my sister that judging by that price it would have to be a byb who has not tested for any of the health problems that Boxers can have. She should have learnt her lesson from the first dog.

If pups on limit register are sold desexed, people who back yard breed to make money, would not be able to do it. Time will come when ordinary people who want these breeds will be buying the cheapest ones from byb, and thereby over time bringing back all the health problems that breeders have worked hard to eliminate, and by breeders not desexing their pups they are also undoing their own good work. Think about it. It's like a never ending circle, until something is done about it. Think of all the cross breeds in pounds, most are from certain breeds and would have to have come from a pure dog or bitch to be a cross., it may have been a few generations and many pups ago, but........

Edited January 5, 2014 by Marion 01

[Steve]

Two different topics why do breeders not advertise and should breeders desex prior to sale . Not a chance Im desexing prior to sale.

[BlackJaq]

Lol and the wheel goes round and round....

[Steve]

[Angeluca]

Two different topics why do breeders not advertise and should breeders desex prior to sale . Not a chance Im desexing prior to sale.

+1 I will not desex prior to sale I actively suggest not before 12 mths my mentor says 18 mths. I know we run the risk of accidental litters or byb, but weighed up against the risks of early desexing and major surgery.

I will do my best to sell to homes i know will look after my pup, and protected them from unwanted mating and environmental factors in HD and ED (of course along side loving feeding and training but thats a given), and hope to god no one slips through the cracks.

I ask peoples opinion on desexing and if they are pro desexing at what age. <---- the only answer that will get no puppy is one that either states they intend to breed off register or I get the strong feeling they will.

Edited January 5, 2014 by Angeluca

[alpha bet]

I don't show.... I find it boring..... does that make me better or worse than other breeders? .....

I don't compete.... I haven't the time.... does that make my dogs any better or worse than the successful show/performance kennels?

I have been breeding and training dogs since 1982.... does this experience make me a better breeder than someone who has just had 2 or 3 litters?

I run a training school for families.... does this give me greater knowledge to what type of temperament suits our modern human world?

When it comes down to it I don't give a hoot how other breeders judge me after all I have my own breeding plan.... I call this plan the three T's......

I breed for Type, Temperament and Testing ...... after all I consider it is my role to produce a pup that is as a 'quality product'. The public who seek a pedigree dog as a pet/companion are just as entitled as any show home to receive a healthy, good looking dog with a balanced temperament, a dog who will live a long time and bring joy to their human family..... and hopefully not end up costing families thousands of dollars for operations to fix hereditary health conditions - that is what I call a quality product.

Who cares where you advertise.... get the name of pedigree dogs out there.... that way the public have the chance to learn more about their options for getting a pup.... Not everyone wants to get a rescue.... nor do they want to go to pet shops ... conduct a google search and many breeders websites may be well down the listings and not get viewed.... The public often need help - back in the 70-80's the German Shep Club used to take a large ad in Saturday Age... and only litters from breed surveyed stock were issued....and mostly these breeders sold all their pups thru the club. Unfortunately many breed clubs don't have large committees, perhaps don't have well maintained websites or even a criteria for puppy listings.... so the public cannot rely on these groups.

One of the big advantages of having Dogzonline is that this website is a great research tool, here provides a great deal of information to the average family about the different breeds available. It also supplies an easy guide to contact information for the breeders via websites or emails.....and at a very affordable price.... We are lucky to have this website after all much of what is available here is not available thru our Kennel Control Associations.....

[WoofnHoof]

Registered breeders and breed clubs especially need to be more market savvy and publicity oriented if they don't want to just lament the loss of the good old days, if they want things to improve. The culture has changed, the way we get information has drastically changed and continues to change, the old traditions are great and valuable but they need to be facilitated into the new social model so that the message is heard. Otherwise it's just whinging and achieves nothing.

DOLers have been complaining about this since I've been a member. And everytime a thread like this comes up, someone says what you've said about being proactive. Then someone will suggest a FB page or a brochure (many years ago, that was me, when brochures were the thing) or a sticker or a website. At some point someone will demand to know what others are to promote pedigree dogs.

And then everyone realises that someone actually has to do the work. That's the point where the thread dies. Until next time when the whole thing starts all over again.

Lol yes it certainly does take on the air of falling flat when it comes to doing something. My first thought is what can I do? I'm not a member of any breed club, not a member of the ANKC, and these are the groups I would expect to be at the forefront of any proactive movement. But it isn't happening so what can I do as someone who isn't in a club, doesn't have papered dogs but does support ethical breeders and purebred dogs?

I think as a community of purebred enthusiasts we probably can do something at a collective level to promote and support ethical breeding practices, we just need to find the best way to do it and get behind it :)

[Mystiqview]

If good pedigree breeders do NOT advertise where the general ignorant (and not in a derogatory way) public look for puppies (eg Trading post, gumtree etc) then all they will know is the "purebred" breeder or even worse puppy farmer advertising on the same sites.

There is still a perception out there that pedigree breeders are up them selves and are overpriced as compared to the purebred breeder. Threads like this where some pedigree people look down their noses at those who do advertise on Gumtree etc as inferior etc does not help that perception.

The puppy buyer may not know to look into the health problems and what extra steps a good pedigree breeder does to ensure their pups are happy and healthy. Information in the same space and an approachable attitude will go a long way to slowly educate those who are just ignorant of the pedigree dog world or may be biased by other media about how bad we are.

The good old days are gone. Some buyers will compare animals solely on price. Some people's budget may not just stretch past a "purebred" pup and will just buy from there no matter what is done to convince them otherwise. Others will always impulse buy and go to a pet shop or nearest person selling cheap or cute pups.

Some people just don't know what the importance of pedigrees are if you want to compete in dog sports. To most pet buyers, they are just a piece of paper - so what and not that important to just owning a family pet. Some still think you have to pay hundreds more to get that (stupid) piece of paper, not a measly $40 (QLD Price).

I would still rather spend the time talking with each potential puppy buyer (even if I don't have any myself) and try to steer them to a good ethical breeder than shove them towards an unethical one.