Training Collars Or Leads

[Tara and Sam]

What sort of collar or lead do you use for training a adult dog to walk on

I have a almost 5 year old dog who I have had just over a month

came from a ethical registered breeder and lived on acres of land with other dogs

I beleive she was in the ring , but maybe more when younger

she has the lovely trot / walk as show dogs have

I havent had a chance in last month to actually take her to a park ( have a dog that is sick with advanced cancer and with Christmas and allowed new girl to settle in )

she has the most beautifull trot on her and can run like the wind

but when put a lead on her she walks about 4-5 metres then sits her bum down and will not budge

mum was here and had her on lead and did the same thing to the point she slipped her collar

new girl is totally obsessed with me and cant bare me out of her sight , have been leaving her away from me inside or outside at small times of day , and that has eased abit

but she will not budge her butt when trying to walk her

she wears a nylon collar with her tags , have clipped the lead to that but she slips it

have tried the Purina ? harness and when she drops she manages to get that up around her neck

she is a cavie , and not a food obsessed cav , she will leave her bone or food to come look for me

she will trot a litte bit with my other cav , but cant walk sick cav to much and only does a few small laps around yard

I have liver treats which young ones does have , but only walks a few paces then drops bum again

I have trained 3 other dogs ( 2 were puppies ) and never had this problem , so any other suggestions please as I cant take her out until I know she cant and wont slip her collar and will walk on lead

I have trained morning and night for last 5 days and not much improvement

I have tried the lead on her and let her drag it around and no problems with that

I am 99% sure if in public she would walk next to me without a lead BUT I want her on a lead

( I always walk dogs with leads on in parks or public )

she sits on command and drops on command

any suggestions please

either she doesnt like walking , or afraid of the lead or just plain pig headed :laugh:

I know it still probally all new to her new home etc but I need help with getting her on the lead to walk

Edited December 30, 2013 by Tara and Sam

[minimax]

What about a martingale? She's probably used to one, being a showy.

Otherwise, train her to use what you want her to use, as you would a young pup.

[BlackJaq]

I use a martingale for training also. The end goal should probably be good walking on any kind of lead/collar and so far mine have all settled into a flat collar, slip lead or whatever the occasion calls for without incident.

Harness would probably be my least favorite option as there is little or no control over the head/neck. This is probably more of an issue with a dog that is still learning or very strong

Edit: Sorry I only just read your entire post. I think you may be asking for too much too fast. Stop before she wants to stop. Ask for one step, reward and let her go. Do this 5 times a day. Training time 1 minute or less to start with. Then ask for two steps and release and so on. If you only stop after the dog starts to refuse you will never finish on a positive note and the dog may become more anxious or stubborn about the whole process. If you notice she is about to stop cooperating, make her do something she does well, reward and finish before she can put on the brakes.

Also, I recommend you try out some other lures besides food. Experiment to find a toy she likes or maybe have a friend with a well behaved dog help you motivate her, but again, do not ask too much too quickly. Don't try to pull her forward, ask her to walk on her own and reward when she does.

Edited December 31, 2013 by BlackJaq

[raineth]

Maybe try clicker training her, as it sounds as though she really doesn't understand what she should be doing.

Start in the house, then progress to the backyard. When she understands the idea of walking on leash in these places it's time to take her out into the world and train her there.

It might even be a good idea to train her to walk by your side without the leash and collar fat first (only inside or in your yard) then add them when she has the idea.

You could also try just waiting her out, and then click and treat the moment she moves. Progress to clicking and treating her for following you around.

[Tara and Sam]

Will look into the martingale collar

Was speaking to her breeder tonight and she wasnt in the ring , ( I must have got confused when spoke to her first time , it was her sister that was in the ring )

she grew up on large property and had free run with others in fenced areas

and apparently she can be a bit "stubborn" :laugh:

she will walk and follow me around the yard , so I know she can do it , just appears to be the collar , almost like she doesnt like it above her

I have stopped before she does and treat her , then continue few paces and treat again

I have also moved to more shorter times during the day now it is a bit cooler here

I dont get anxious about her stopping as know this wont help her , and praise her after she follows a command

she is good at sitting , dropping and almost good at stay command

Yes BlackJaq I have tried some different lures such as a favourite toy Tweety bird , she seems to favour some liver or some cheese

my other dog is helping her with motivation a bit also , and also small walks around helps muscle tone for sick one

raineth , I never used clicker training before but will try that also

I did try from inside the house and also took her out the front door to front yard as new area to investigate then back and through house to back yard , and seems as though we are having some headway

I have no problems with her walking without lead next to me

she has good recall on her

we have made some advances the last few days

we can make it out the front then to the back yard and around yard 3-4 times with out miss stubborn sitting bum down , so yes I did the waiting game until she moved forward and lots of praises

and when took the leash off to see her start doing zoomies around yard was a delight

she tried to get Tynka to play chasey with her but Tynka just cant do that anymore

so small steps at a time

thanks for the replies

[Erny]

Sounds to me as though this might be her 'learnt' avoidance behaviour to the sensation of the collar and lead. Does she enjoy the collar/lead going on? What's she like if the lead is simply dropped and left to drag (try this in back yard)? If there's no direct issue with the wearing of the collar and lead, then it seems to me she doesn't want you to control the walk. Rather, that she wants to control the walk herself. Can only speak generally, given we're without the benefit of first-hand observation but I would go for a martingale (making sure it is fitted so that it cannot slip an ear). When she's walking well, keep up with the positive motivation (praise, reward) but when she plants herself, keep moving - not so much/fast that you cause her to drag along, but using little perpetual 'pops' on the lead with forward pressure until the very second she lifts her butt and goes to walk. When she does, switch to praise.

In other words - on one hand you're making it clear what works to her advantage (praise/reward). But she is gaining some advantage over planting her butt that is in its own way being reinforced (for her). Make 'planting butt' more unpleasurable (pop; pop; pop; pop) with the leash > martingale and this will create a greater contrast to "walking on lead" -vs- "planting butt/balking".

Make sure not to turn and look at her when she plants her butt - I find a lot of people do that because the people find it easier instead of facing forward in the direction they are going and using their head and peripheral vision to watch their dog. In essence though, give the impression you're not changing direction at her command nor giving her attention for "planting butt" (removes another potential inadvertent reinforcer).

Also give the attitude of calm, assertive and YOU own the walk, rather than teaching her that she controls it.

If she wants to go sniff a tree; play with her other dog friend; whatever; …… and you're happy and ready for her to do so, have her meet your focus before you turn her loose/let her go sniff.

All of above said on the assumption there are no environmental triggers she might be frightened of that is causing any 'butt planting'. By sounds of what you've written, I don't think that to be the case.

Edited January 4, 2014 by Erny

[piper]

Reading the above, I actually wonder if she has ever been walked on a lead? It could be that she has never had her movement controlled like that and is objecting to it.

Using the same methods as above but slightly different - I would pop her in the car and go for a drive to a quiet but interesting park. It might be than when she is somewhere different and is interested in the new place that she is happy to walk - a few steps where you want to go and then allow her to go check out what she wants to then a few more steps with you etc.

[persephone]

..and another suggestion may be to pop her on a long line ...this is how I teach our free range puppies out bush :) collar left on ..then one day..a long line while out in a favourite spot ..then a retractable (original ,STRONG)..then a shorter leash . Lots of recalls each stage ....

[kelpiecuddles]

What about using a really fine show/ puppy lead around the yard so that she can't feel the weight of the clips, etc

[hankdog]

Kikopup has a good YouTube thing about giving in to leash pressure that might help.

[Tara and Sam]

Erny I think she has not had a collar and lead on for possibly 4 years , breeder said since a puppy and she almost 5 yrs old in 2 months , apparently on the property they have they had a fenced of area for them to run and play

she wears the nylon collar with her tags since I had her and she doesnt seem to mind the collar , she does lower her head when clipping the lead on , so clip it from underneath her neck and then adjust collar and lead

did try the lead and let her walk around with that and she was fine

I thinking now she just not use to a lead

I tried in the beginning the nylon rope as it was lighter but she didnt even like that

she is praised a lot during her training

without even realalising it until you mentioned it , I wasnt watching her as such as I could feel when she stopped , I was watching Tynka and makeing sure she was ok

when I felt her stop I just stood and waited until she moved forward then praise and a treat

Yes have been letting her investigate , then continue on

there is a lot of noises she isnt use to , neighbour has car and when he starts that she does shy , and she dislikes the wind in the palm trees , so a lot of new noises for her to also contend with

Piper , no it appears as though been years since on a lead and also a bit stubborn

I have tried her in the car with Tynka to see how she would react to that , and that part seems to be ok with her

we were going to take them to small park nearby , but it was raining and missed that chance , so hopefully tomorrow , as I would like to take Tynka there also

She is takeing notice more of her different areas

Persephone , you reminded me I do have a longer lead that I used with Sam ( long horse lead type ) , will get that out

kelpiecuddles I did think of that afew days ago and used a nylon cord almost like the size of show lead , but she still sat butt down

Thanks hankdog , will check them out

She has been harder to get going than Sam and Tara were as puppies

I think it comes back to no lead for years , just use to running free with other dogs

Well we did have some more improvement last two days

this morning I took them outside when got up and I could see the stray cat that hangs around , and they have all met before and have cuddles and purrs and rub heads together so I said "lets go see puss puss " and she trotted right next to me down the back yard

came back in , and about hour later after they had breakfast , put lead on Ruby and said those magic words , and she trotted beautifully with me down back yard to see the cat again with out sitting bum down at all

so those magic words came into action again in another training sessions , out the front door then back inside and out the backyard , again a beautifull walk with no bum sitting

later after tea OH and we were outside , so gave him the lead and she just sat and wouldnt move :laugh: , she just wanted me , so I gave him treats and said walk few steps , get her to sit , treat , praise and then continue , she did hesitate with him again so I walked in front of them both to get her going and she got around the yard a few times again :) with him treating and praising her , then I moved away from them both as he did a lap around

so hopefully we are breaking her dislike of the lead and sitting down

I am starting to feel bit more confident about trying her out in park now

Tynka came from same breeder and loved her lead and walks

Thanks for replies and new ideas to try also :)

[persephone]

.. LOTS of practice in the yard ..even if it's getting her a bit hungry .. putting her food bowl down the back ..... and walking down there on lead . let her pull !

Have a leash on indoors too .

When you attach the leash ..have her sit ..show her a yummy treat HIGH ..so she's looking UP ..hold it in one hand ..gradually move it down - meanwhile.. SILENTLY clip leash on with teh other hand as she gets the treat ;) THEN do NOT adjust anything- just carry on with another treat --SILENTLY - no acknowledging an "event " has happened ....

[piper]

You said you got OH to walk, sit her and reward. Do you ever reward while moving? Walking is the behaviour you want to reinforce so she should be rewarded while doing that. She might stop to eat but you should be marking the movement and presenting the reward then.

Edited January 5, 2014 by piper

[persephone]

You said you got OH to walk, sit her and reward. Do you ever reward whule moving? Walking is the behaviour you want to reinforce so she should be rewarded while doing that. She might stop to eatbut you should be marking tge movement and presenting the reward then.

agree :)