GeorgiB Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I have a 7 month old border collie and a 12 month old blue cattle dog. I got the BC at 7 weeks from a breeder and the CD at 8 months, from the RSPCA. For the first couple of months they got along well but have recently started fighting. It has become so vicious that they, and I, have been injured and they growl at each other through the glass door (they have been separated for a few weeks). I do not want to put myself, or them, through the trauma of another fight again and my partner and I wonder if the best thing for all of us might be to rehome our CD. I have spoken to so many professionals and it seems hopeful that, with a lot of training, time and persistence they could get along again but I am terrified one of them will end up dead before that happens. I am torn now between getting more help for them, surrendering the CD to the Animal Welfare League or rehoming him myself. Has anyone had experience with this type of situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I have a 7 month old border collie and a 12 month old blue cattle dog. I got the BC at 7 weeks from a breeder and the CD at 8 months, from the RSPCA. For the first couple of months they got along well but have recently started fighting. It has become so vicious that they, and I, have been injured and they growl at each other through the glass door (they have been separated for a few weeks). I do not want to put myself, or them, through the trauma of another fight again and my partner and I wonder if the best thing for all of us might be to rehome our CD. I have spoken to so many professionals and it seems hopeful that, with a lot of training, time and persistence they could get along again but I am terrified one of them will end up dead before that happens. I am torn now between getting more help for them, surrendering the CD to the Animal Welfare League or rehoming him myself. Has anyone had experience with this type of situation? It is not at all unusual to have a male ACD that cannot be run with other males. Usually two desexed dogs will get along but not always. The BC may fight back but they when they fight it is usually all spit and noise and he will always come off second best to the stronger ACD. Unless you are prepared to completely separate them for the rest of their lives, I would rehome the ACD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Did the RSPCA say why th eCatlle Dog was up for adoption? perhaps he is just not suited to be with other dogs ...perhaps your management skills need help- .... please do NOT rehome the dog ..hand it back to the RSPCA ...and explain why. It is not responsible to pass on problems ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 OH.. and neither of them are really 'puppies' anymore ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I would rehome the ACD and I would take him back to the shelter you got him from. I have lived with dogs that had to be ran separately or there would be massive injuries and possible death. Living like that is hard work and I would never do it again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I agree please return the ACD to the RSPCA. These two dogs will continue to fight given the opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inevitablue Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Lots of assumptions that the ACD is causing the fights. On breed type its probably a greater chance, but the OP states that the BC will still growl from behind a glass door when it has the option to walk away, doesnt sound like a submissive dog anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Okay then, one dog needs to be rehomed, choose whichever you believe is the best one to rehome. If it is the cattle dog return him to where you got him from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 (edited) Lots of assumptions that the ACD is causing the fights. On breed type its probably a greater chance, but the OP states that the BC will still growl from behind a glass door when it has the option to walk away, doesnt sound like a submissive dog anyway. Not lots of assumptions that the ACD is causing the fights but it doesn't matter which dog is causing the fights, they will both fight if they get the chance. We are saying to return the ACD because it is the most recent addition to the home and the OP mentioned returning or rehoming the ACD. Edited to change a word. Edited December 28, 2013 by cavNrott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha bet Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 You have two dogs of similar ages.... both are now teenagers and starting to think they are the superior dog.... It is not wise to have two dogs of similar age. Ideally there should be at least two years between dogs.... It is not uncommon for people to get a second dog to keep the first one company because they think he is lonely or perhaps the dog is getting destructive. Hence you get a playmate to make things easier. What happens is you can end up with double trouble. You should take one back to the Rescue, they should not have rehomed a young dog with you when you already have a pup (but perhaps you did not tell them). This may not solve your problem.... you need to learn more about how to handle the dog you keep. You have to provide the right environment and ensure the right exercise and supervision.... otherwise you will find that perhaps your dog can start to become dog aggressive whenever you walk the dog on lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 The 1st question is Are they desexed ? If not that may be a large part of the problem. A bitch on heat anywhere within about a 5 kilometre radius may kick them off by sending their hormones into overdrive. Sometimes who is boss is not always sorted out until this age too. If not desexed get then both done asap then seperate for about 2 weeks to let the hormones die down & introduce with them both on lead & hopefully gradually they may stop trying to kill each other. Takes time & patience though. If they are desexed you either need some expert help or one will need re homing. As you don't know who is the aggressor & both welfare places are almost 100% likely to euthanise a returned dog, especially at this busy time of year that's not a good option. If you choose to rehome I would decide which one & then start taking him out on a lead to see how he reacts to other dogs on neutral territory. He may be fine & therefore suitable to be an only dog for someone else. May not always be a ferocious fighter. Either dog may be different in a different environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 The cattle dog would have to already be desexed as he came from the RSPCA. I suggested he be rehomed as it is unusual for desexed dogs to fight and the OP already suggested rehoming him. He is the last added to the family and they raised the BC from a puppy so should be more attached to him. They have only had the ACD for a couple of months and even if he isn't the aggressor he will always come off best in a fight due to his jaw and body strength. Unfortunately the BC will probably need a lot of work now to not react to other dogs. They are a breed not prone to fighting but if they are forced into a situation where they to learn to fight they tend to always be wary of other dogs. BCs have memories like elephants and this one will probably hate all ACDs for the rest of it's life but not necessarily other breeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgiB Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 Thank you everyone! Both dogs are desexed and it was initially the Border Collie who would initiate the fights. Then it was the Cattle Dog that was instigating it more and now that they are separated the BC is the one who will growl and try and fight through the glass door. When we got the CD from the RSPCA we took our other pup in with us. Having experienced this and done lots of research I am surprised that they let us take him, knowing he would be living with another male puppy. I don't want to take him back to the RSPCA as I'm worried they would put him down knowing there's been aggression issues. With a very heavy heart I have decided to rehome him. He is afraid of new people and we have formed such a close bond so it is a heartbreaking decision. I'm sure it's the right one for all of us but knowing that doesn't make it any easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 29, 2013 Share Posted December 29, 2013 The ACD may have tested fine with other dogs!! Your BC , upon getting to teenage hood .. may have wanted to assert his territorial rights - .. Your BC sounds as if he needs some training/boundaries .. and , if you are rehoming the ACD be well aware that he now may be a defensive dog!! he may now have learned to 'get in first'..poor boy..and upon rehoming, and perhaps feeling unsettled yet again .. could have problems . If rehomed privately ..he would need a very experienced owner ..who does training etc with dogs ..and has previously owned similar dogs ...and is prepared to consult a behaviourist if needed. Excellent fencing An owner who will pay for this dog - NEVER :free to good home: a dog. NEVER. If he were mine .. I would place him thru a rescue ..or get him assessed by a good behaviourist first ..I make it a rule to not pass on problems to someone else .... I would rather PTS than cause a dog more distress ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgiB Posted December 29, 2013 Author Share Posted December 29, 2013 Also, the RSPCA had picked him up as a stray. No aggression issues were mentioned. Only that he was very timid and afraid of people, which he still is (although he has improved a lot). I have found a new home for Rusty, a friend of my neighbour who has had cattle dogs all his life. I was very clear about what the problems have been. I don't want him to end up being surrendered or put down so of course I wanted to give this guy all the facts! He's not so aggressive he needs to be put to sleep, it's only because I was irresponsible enough to try and raise two male puppies around the same age that are both working breeds and my inexperience probably only made it worse. So I am confident about him being successfully rehomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgiB Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 I am worried though about him feeling unsettled and more defensive now that he's fought a lot with our other dog. I can only hope that the new owner is prepared to do a lot of work with him. He has had cattle dogs before and has always taken his dog everywhere with him so it sounds like he will spend a lot of time with him. I feel good about it knowing he is a friend of someone I trust. We can never really know once they are out of our hands. That scares me a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 poor Rusty ... I do hope this is the home which suits him ..and that the new owner is aware and prepared to work at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 I suggested he be rehomed as it is unusual for desexed dogs to fight Far from it. Fighting and instigating conflict is not an exclusively hormone driven behavior in the slightest. The border collie was also named as the initial instigator of the fighting and now the CD is jack of it. Not surprised. I'd be more onto the BC as the problem child not the CD despite him being the potentially stronger of the two. I think the more far reaching problem here is the BC. Call the breeder and ask about why the temperament has gone south and is such fight prevalent in their lines. If you got it from a backyard breeder that can explain some of the temperament. I've seen anti social BCs, they do exist. Not every BC is a roll over softy and some are instigators and finishers of some good fights. Let me guess, the border is inside and the CD outside? That too can account for the BC growling and lunging through the door - he's all big and brave defending 'his' territory. You need to get on top of this dog ASAP, he should not be doing this at all through the door no matter what is out there. I think you're throwing problem child status on the wrong dog. Separate and get a proper assessment of the dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgiB Posted December 30, 2013 Author Share Posted December 30, 2013 They are rotated regularly so one is not always inside. I have honestly never thought that one particular dog was the problem child, the only reason we are rehoming the CD is because we have had him for less time. If it were up to me I would probably prefer to keep the CD as he is so loyal and trusting towards me but then we raised the BC from 7 weeks so he is our baby! Obviously I would love to keep them both. BC loves to play with other dogs and regularly plays with the dog next door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted December 30, 2013 Share Posted December 30, 2013 If it were up to me I would probably prefer to keep the CD as he is so loyal and trusting towards me You have to be happy with the dog. If you're heart is with the CD then you have to be happy with the decision you make as to which dog is more suitable to you and your situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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