Makes One Wonder

[Airedaler]

I have always fed my dogs a reasonable diet, mainly raw based with some kibble of mid price range with the occasional bag of premium brand kibble along the way and am happy with the health of my dogs over a long period of time however, I am minding my daughter in laws fox terrier/jack Russell/?? cross at the moment. While his care has always been good his diet has only ever been of the lower (supermarket) quality pet food and yet this dog is almost 18 years old and his teeth are pretty much perfect albeit a little dirty. Although in the last year he has had a couple of health issues overall he is pretty good and on no medication whatsoever.

It does make believe I am right in thinking we have been conned by the pet food industry and vets for many years.

[The Spotted Devil]

Some people smoke and drink excessively and live long, healthy lives! There are always exceptions.

I feed a decent quality dry and a bit of raw - my Springer has a cast iron stomach and does well on many brands (large variety from prize hauls). A few months back I went to a weekend trial and completely forgot her dry food - bought the best looking bag of dry from the supermarket - every time she had some she itched like crazy for half a day. I had put it in her food bin but didn't mix it properly so tried giving her mostly the cheap food OR mostly her normal food. Itched and stopped itching respectively over the next 12 hours. I was convinced!

[Guest donatella]

Yep. My mums cross breeds eat pedigree dry, goodos and table scraps and are quite healthy. The 16 year old was just pts as she was deaf and the arthritis was getting to her so it was the kindest thing to do. The other one is 13 and runs with my young ones. Both mine at 1 and 2 have been to the vets for a multitude of issues in their short lives and I put a lot of effort into their diet and overall health.

[karly101]

No, its a complex matrix of genetics and environment. Good nutrition is incredibly important and is backed by research. Sometimes you can be lucky to be blessed by good genes and it doesn't matter what you eat. Every animal is individual and that's why some dogs do better than others on certain foods. For every one you meet that thrives on cheaper food there's plenty others that have skin issues/stomach issues/urinary issues/teeth issues and high cholesterol from them. Fortunately because people are feeding dry foods and there is a lot more information on balanced raw diets you don't really see many dogs who have nutritional deficiencies from poorly researched home made diets.

I think you should stick to what you are doing with your raw and good quality dry.

[Dogsfevr]

We run boarding kennels & can tell you now many of our clients are feed simple foods & are very fit elderly dogs .

Many are feed tin,have great teeth ,very healthy & there not owners that i would call conditioning freaks.

The dogs are very happy with no issues.

We feed what suits the dog that could vary in quality but in the end you can't feed something that obviously isn't agreeing .

Although i will say the dogs with the most health issues we board are feed BARF.

I do now people who feed it with alot of success but i would never push it as the be all end all diet like many do,

As for high cholesterol some breeds already have it as part of there breed make up our breed is one of those .

The main food issue we see is the junk food problem & seeing a massive increase in diabetic dogs often these are obese dogs as well .

Diabetic dogs is very common now that it is scary

[mixeduppup]

Back in the day we raised our dogs on supermarket working dog mix (blue dog or something similar) and the youngest died at 16, the oldest at 18. We now feed mainly working dog with raw and touch wood the dogs are going well and no serious health issues. I think it's quality of life and environment as well as the nutrition factor.

[megan_]

Maybe they're on BARF because they have health issues, not that the BARF is causing the issues?

I agree with what TSD and karly have said. Diet is not going to fix genetics , and trying to draw a direct line between food vs age vs number of times the dog goes to the vet is misleading. Like with all animals a good diet and appropriate exercise will ensure that animal will get the best shot at life. It won't guarantee a long and healthy life.

[Christina]

Of course. It is a huge multi billion dollar industry now to guilt people into feeding their dogs certain brands of food.

When one looks at the content often there is little or no difference or not any difference that may be better. Chicken may mean the same parts of a chicken in a brand at both ends of the price range. It was interesting once seeing peanut butter being made in a factory & then poured into jars with different company labels on. It was all the same batch & home brand was the same as known brands. 5 different labels for the same product.

The best diet is the one that your pet likes & thrives on & this can be variable.

Cats seem more sensitive to food than most dogs. Those with skin issues probably have a predisposition anyway & adjusting diet may help. A few do have genuine allergy.

Dogs do seem to have more weight problems now than they used to.

[raineth]

We run boarding kennels & can tell you now many of our clients are feed simple foods & are very fit elderly dogs .

Many are feed tin,have great teeth ,very healthy & there not owners that i would call conditioning freaks.

The dogs are very happy with no issues.

We feed what suits the dog that could vary in quality but in the end you can't feed something that obviously isn't agreeing .

Although i will say the dogs with the most health issues we board are feed BARF.

I do now people who feed it with alot of success but i would never push it as the be all end all diet like many do,

As for high cholesterol some breeds already have it as part of there breed make up our breed is one of those .

The main food issue we see is the junk food problem & seeing a massive increase in diabetic dogs often these are obese dogs as well .

Diabetic dogs is very common now that it is scary

I wondered (as Megan mentioned) whether it could be a case of owners putting their dogs on BARF because the dog is having problems anyway. I know when my dog Digby went through a rashy stage I tried a few different things for his diet.

As for diets and genetics: there is evidence among us humans that our grandmothers' diets, and the diets of our mothers while they were pregnant can turn certain genes on and off in their offspring. This research alludes mainly to women who had little food intake (because of the Depression for example) can lead to certain genes being turned on or off that mean that offspring are prepared for an environment where food is sarce, and therefore to a propensity to gain weight easily. It is therefore also possible that the same is happening for our dogs, and maybe it influences more than how easily your dog will get fat or not. It would be very interesting to look at the influence diet can have, not only to the individual dog, but to that dog's offspring (if any).

[Diva]

I think undernutrition is generally much less of a problem than overnutrition. I am not including genuine starvation of course, but I have known many dogs to live long happy lives on very ordinary diets.

[raineth]

I think undernutrition is generally much less of a problem than overnutrition. I am not including genuine starvation of course, but I have known many dogs to live long happy lives on very ordinary diets.

I agree, all I was getting at, is that there is evidence that our immediate ancestors diet does have an affect on our genes. This could also explain why some dogs do very well on a cheaper grain-filled supermarket Brands, and maybe even why some have a more delicate constitution. I just think its worth considering, and I would love to see some good research on it. As all the research I see only focuses on the impact of diet on that particular dog :)

[Diva]

I think undernutrition is generally much less of a problem than overnutrition. I am not including genuine starvation of course, but I have known many dogs to live long happy lives on very ordinary diets.

I agree, all I was getting at, is that there is evidence that our immediate ancestors diet does have an affect on our genes. This could also explain why some dogs do very well on a cheaper grain-filled supermarket Brands, and maybe even why some have a more delicate constitution. I just think its worth considering, and I would love to see some good research on it. As all the research I see only focuses on the impact of diet on that particular dog :)

I wasn't particularly replying to you Raineth, just to the OP. But I agree with you that nutrition is likely to have generational effects. From what I can figure out many of the ancestors of my breed were fed boiled grain, wheat, with chunks of boiled meat. For how many generations it was that way I can't tell. I have never seen a chronic skin issue and I am up to number 7 of my own. Fussy dogs but strong digestion, not inclined to digestive issues but often skinny youngsters. My bunch anyway, wouldn't dare speak for all.

Edited December 28, 2013 by Diva

[raineth]

I think undernutrition is generally much less of a problem than overnutrition. I am not including genuine starvation of course, but I have known many dogs to live long happy lives on very ordinary diets.

I agree, all I was getting at, is that there is evidence that our immediate ancestors diet does have an affect on our genes. This could also explain why some dogs do very well on a cheaper grain-filled supermarket Brands, and maybe even why some have a more delicate constitution. I just think its worth considering, and I would love to see some good research on it. As all the research I see only focuses on the impact of diet on that particular dog :)

I wasn't particularly replying to you Raineth, just to the OP. But I agree with you that nutrition is likely to have generational effects. From what I can figure out many of the ancestors of my breed were fed boiled grain, wheat, with chunks of boiled meat. For how many generations it was that way I can't tell. I have never seen a chronic skin issue and I am up to number 7 of my own. Fussy dogs but strong digestion, not inclined to digestive issues but often skinny youngsters. My bunch anyway, wouldn't dare speak for all.

Oh my bad

Very interesting what you say though! :) you have Borzoi's or Salukis? Sorry I can't quite remember... I know you're a sighthounds person. It sounds like they have the constitution to make the most of their food nutritionally.

I know with my very big mutt Digby, he can remain fat on the smell of a sardine. Obviously this is a trait that can be both a blessing and a curse :)

[Diva]

Very interesting what you say though! :) you have Borzoi's or Salukis? Sorry I can't quite remember... I know you're a sighthounds person. It sounds like they have the constitution to make the most of their food nutritionally.

I know with my very big mutt Digby, he can remain fat on the smell of a sardine. Obviously this is a trait that can be both a blessing and a curse :)

I have Borzoi. It makes sense to me that that at least as youngsters they tend to leaness, a fat sighthound would not be much use on a hunt. I figured it was just selection. But whether their diets back then now affect how current dogs respond to environmental factors would be interesting to know.

(I used to also have Belgian Shepherds, I swear they could put on weight by looking at food, definitely a curse)

Edited December 29, 2013 by Diva

[Airedaler]

I agree with everyone that says genetics play a part in the overall health etc of the dog and longevity is not just about diet but I do find it interesting that there are plenty of dogs out there that have had less than ideal nutrition - according to the pet food companies - and still manage to live long and healthy lives.

[Dogsfevr]

I agree with everyone that says genetics play a part in the overall health etc of the dog and longevity is not just about diet but I do find it interesting that there are plenty of dogs out there that have had less than ideal nutrition - according to the pet food companies - and still manage to live long and healthy lives.

Or maybe you can question all the chemicals people use now & there affects.

We have vaccinated our dogs for well over 30 yrs with no dramas but we don't heartworm/flea/tick etc etc.

I appreciate in some states not tick treating is not an option & sometimes this applies to fleas & heartworm but i think i would be questioning the over use of these products & the effects

live long happy lives on very ordinary diets.

raineth

Posted 29 December 2013 - 06:15 AM

View Postshowdog, on 28 December 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

We run boarding kennels & can tell you now many of our clients are feed simple foods & are very fit elderly dogs .

Many are feed tin,have great teeth ,very healthy & there not owners that i would call conditioning freaks.

The dogs are very happy with no issues.

We feed what suits the dog that could vary in quality but in the end you can't feed something that obviously isn't agreeing .

Although i will say the dogs with the most health issues we board are feed BARF.

I do now people who feed it with alot of success but i would never push it as the be all end all diet like many do,

As for high cholesterol some breeds already have it as part of there breed make up our breed is one of those .

The main food issue we see is the junk food problem & seeing a massive increase in diabetic dogs often these are obese dogs as well .

I wondered (as Megan mentioned) whether it could be a case of owners putting their dogs on BARF because the dog is having problems anyway. I know when my dog Digby went through a rashy stage I tried a few different things for his diet.

Most haven't they where pressured to feed it thinking it is the bee all end all & sadly feed it to the detriment of there dogs health & condition believing after a few months things would change .

I do feed partial raw but i can't feed full my dogs did very poorly on it ,i now others whose dogs are super but that diets for you ,

[Airedaler]

I agree with everyone that says genetics play a part in the overall health etc of the dog and longevity is not just about diet but I do find it interesting that there are plenty of dogs out there that have had less than ideal nutrition - according to the pet food companies - and still manage to live long and healthy lives.

Or maybe you can question all the chemicals people use now & there affects.

We have vaccinated our dogs for well over 30 yrs with no dramas but we don't heartworm/flea/tick etc etc.

I appreciate in some states not tick treating is not an option & sometimes this applies to fleas & heartworm but i think i would be questioning the over use of these products & the effects

Absolutely Showdog I'm in complete agreement about this. I think it is not only the chemicals we use on our pets but also those used in the environment all play a part.

[Salukifan]

I'm interested in using nutrition to optimise a dog's genetic potential for development and in giving a long and healthy life.

If a dog can live 16+ years on rubbish, imagine its potential on an optimal diet! Raw or otherwise, it requires a bit more thought than what's good for your wallet.

It's my belief that better husbandry would see many dogs live longer, more active lives. That's second nature to a lot of horse owners but it seems that it's not given the same priority with many pet owners. That means care of diet, regular chiropractic and muscle work and optimal (but not excessive) exercise. I see all of that as my responsibility as a dog owner be they show dog or simply as a pet.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[Steve]

As a breeder I believe its not just about the dog you see its about what happens because of what you feed as well as genetics which impact on future generations. If you are going to draw conclusions on how the diet impacts you also have to look at the other variables such as stress, over vaccination, heart worm meds,exercise etc . When you own more than average numbers of dogs all kept in the same environment and fed the same diet especially when you breed them you see how the diet can impact pretty easily.

One of the reasons I love being a dog breeder.

http://www.livescience.com/21902-diet-epigenetics-grandchildren.html

[sandgrubber]

As for diets and genetics: there is evidence among us humans that our grandmothers' diets, and the diets of our mothers while they were pregnant can turn certain genes on and off in their offspring. This research alludes mainly to women who had little food intake (because of the Depression for example) can lead to certain genes being turned on or off that mean that offspring are prepared for an environment where food is sarce, and therefore to a propensity to gain weight easily. It is therefore also possible that the same is happening for our dogs, and maybe it influences more than how easily your dog will get fat or not. It would be very interesting to look at the influence diet can have, not only to the individual dog, but to that dog's offspring (if any).

I've often heard that said, but have not been able to find references. Any idea who did the study(ies) and/or where it/they is published?