sheena Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I have never used a blind cross (intentionally) in Agility but I notice that more & more handlers are using this handling manouver to change handler sides. I am thinking of giving it a go with my slower dog mainly, as obviously you have to be in front of your dog to perform it. The advantage that I see is that it may get more speed into the dog, as front crosses tend to slow the dog down & often she is not going fast enough for me to perform a back cross. The disadvantages that I can think of are that I have to take my eye off the dog (which I often do anyway ) & that she may then think it's OK to cross behind me to take an off course. What are other DOL's thoughts on using the Blind Cross ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Lynda Peyton hill raised this when she was out here. She only does them now when the dog has a job to do and they should be ignoring the handler totally (eg, the weavers where, if your dog understands their job properly you soils be able to run off in any direction and they should focus on the weavers until they've finished). I guess a tunnel, dog walk and maybe even the a frame would be good candidates too . I personally wouldn't do it on the flat as it would introduce too much confusion. I might start yo give some a go as I'm a fatty and sometimes I'm too slow with my front cross. That said, I find that a front cross gives a dog a much better idea of what is about to happen over a blind or rear cross, so you might find your slow dog going even slower as they might have more questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I'd be prepared to use blind crosses on tunnels - love watching Silvia T do them on weaves - blew my mind the first time lol. I probably wouldn't on jumps - fronts and rears work fine and I don't need to over complicate it. Speed I'm working on as a completely different exercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Does Sylvia use them on jumps TSD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I'm not 100% sure - she runs so hard WITH her dogs that it wouldn't be easy. She is much less of an independent obstacle handler but that's not for everyone. Us GD devotees had it SO drilled into us about the evils of blind crosses that it's very hard to change! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I love watching her run and I love her "have fun and break the rules " philosophy . I couldn't keep up with fergus though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I think as long as you are super consistent you can do anything you want! If you watch her DVDs she is incredibly consistent and her timing is brilliant - from tricks to handling. I essentially like the GD system as it has clear rules for the handler - and to be honest I need very clear rules lol. I have good rewards timing but always struggled with handling timing at speed. I think that's why I enjoy the thinking time in retrieving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy82 Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Susan Garrett's new handling system uses blind crosses, but only when the dog isn't looking so the dog has no idea it has been blind crossed (to avoid things like the dog thinking it should cross behind and end up getting kicked by the handler). So she uses them as the dog is coming up the A-frame, while the dog is in a tunnel or when the dog is wrapping an upright and the handler is hidden from the dog's view by the upright. So a blind cross is never done in a way that it gives the dog a job to do, the dog is always unaware of the blind cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I think that's a good approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 There is some who are training and proofing BXs well and using them appropriately, and some throwing BXs just because they can and blaming the poor dog when it goes wrong. I've also seen dogs anticipate the BX and slow down waiting for it as well. I have used BXs for years on tunnels, I did flirt with BXs and K-turns at the Dave Munnings seminar but I have some work to do on getting my head around sending and leaving. Dave took Darcy for a demo and she did a lovely K-turn and BX, not bad for a dog who's had a good few years of Derrett drilled into her I'm now working an online course with my 1 yo on foundation which includes BX foundation and proofing in the higher lessons. I don't see much point for them at Novice level (except tunnels) but I think it will be a handy skill for the toolbox in the higher courses. If you're having issues with your dog not driving ahead enough for you to RX then my POA would probably revolve around getting the dog to drive lines on the flat and encouraging speed and enthusiasm that way. I really like Dave Munning's first DVD and a lot of the Silvia Trkman work for motivation, encouraging speed and driving lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 What course is that Jess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted December 28, 2013 Author Share Posted December 28, 2013 There is some who are training and proofing BXs well and using them appropriately, and some throwing BXs just because they can and blaming the poor dog when it goes wrong. I've also seen dogs anticipate the BX and slow down waiting for it as well. I have used BXs for years on tunnels, I did flirt with BXs and K-turns at the Dave Munnings seminar but I have some work to do on getting my head around sending and leaving. Dave took Darcy for a demo and she did a lovely K-turn and BX, not bad for a dog who's had a good few years of Derrett drilled into her I'm now working an online course with my 1 yo on foundation which includes BX foundation and proofing in the higher lessons. I don't see much point for them at Novice level (except tunnels) but I think it will be a handy skill for the toolbox in the higher courses. If you're having issues with your dog not driving ahead enough for you to RX then my POA would probably revolve around getting the dog to drive lines on the flat and encouraging speed and enthusiasm that way. I really like Dave Munning's first DVD and a lot of the Silvia Trkman work for motivation, encouraging speed and driving lines. What do you mean by a K-turn ?? Is that when you see handlers send their dog over the jump then turn & run...dog follows. I've started training this with her & she turns really tight & speeds up to catch me & get the reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piper Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Stacy Peardot covered blind crosses when she was here. And as she pointed out - the dog does NOT cross you, you cross the dog's path so it should not create a dog that changes side behind you. In fact when a handler at the clinics here in SA called the dog in behind her she was very quick to stop her and say never to do that. She also demonstrated that the dog should only be behind you for as long as it takes you to turn your head so you should not be losing connection with them. They have their place and so does a front cross. I will say that I am no longer scared of them as I was ,and I have not found my dog to decide to randomly change sides on me since starting to use them and I have used them on jumps as well as tunnels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podengo Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I want to handle like Silvia Trkman, I LOVE the flow and the energy! I try but I am really not very good! Must practice lots before my next dog to make sure I have it sorted!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Does she have a specific handling system? Do any of her dvd's explain it? I'm a handler that needs a system! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 (edited) Do you not like the GD handling system like at Awesome Paws megan? I could never handle like ST due to how much running she does. As it is I need anti-inflams and single malt whiskey to recover! Love, love her focus on speed though - am working on that currently with my 2. Edited December 28, 2013 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I've never been afraid of doing blind crosses and will use them if I need too even though I was always told of the "evils" of them while learning. At the moment only use them on tunnels in trials but have been working on weavers for trials as I can already run to the end and cross to the other side while she weaves rather then rear crossing her and jumps as well but that's a work in progress still :) As yet, she has never gotten confused and doesn't try and blind cross me at any other time. I've also never followed one particular system. In fact, I don't know what the difference between them are so use whatever I feel works for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I find having a system (whatever one) enables me to clearly communicate with the dogs and it enables them to run harder, stop asking questions and builds confidence. It also helps to problem solve ie the dog did X instead of Y, but I inadvertently told the dog to do X OR the dog doesn't really understand Y. Also helps when you are getting instruction from someone who understands your system and doing puppy foundations. Plus, as my main focus at the moment is retrieving I need a system laid out for me - I don't have the time to invent my own! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 I like GD a lot TSD. But I like to look at what other people are doing and see if there is anything that I can pick from their system. When Greg was out here a few years ago he also said that his system was designed for someone who forces lot of running. I need tricks that I can get fergs to do independently of me (eg check check) so that I can move on. Greg's system doesn't have verbals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 (edited) SG has a LOT of verbals! That might suit? For me, the more I play with this stuff the more I realise what a bloody perfectionist I am and how that slows my dogs down. No handling system is going to fix that! I am also guilty of lumping. Anyway, I'm working on both of those things this Summer. Edited December 28, 2013 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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