jupiterlights Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 I am looking for information and advice about the raising of a singleton lab. My bitch is a maiden, and is due to whelp just one pup this week. (She is on Breeders Terms to a reputable breeder, but will stay with me to whelp). The breeder and reproductive Vet have advised that it is in the best interests of the pup to go and be raised with another of the Breeder's Bitches who has whelped 6 today, but lost one (these pups will be two to three days older than my pup). I certainly recognise the developmental and social advantages for the pup to go to be raised with a litter. My question is about the affect of this on my bitch. I have had advice from the Vet saying "she will not even notice" through to she will fret so badly you may need to sedate her in the first 24 hours. This is a working dog who has a strong bond and trust with me as her handler, and has two other dogs to live with, so this may assist her to cope. My questions are; - is it best for the singleton to go to a litter - what will the likely effect be on my bitch of losing her pup after 24 hours (will stay for colostrum) - Does anyone know of any possible foster litters who may benefit from Surrogacy in order to give my Bitch the chance to raise a litter Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 there are lots of threads on D O L about singleton pups :) The main thing is to NOT feed the bitch any extra - so milk is not being produced in great quantities . Singletons need to exercise ,and be moved about a lot ... as they would be if jumbled up in a litter .... they also need to not eat extra .... have a read here :) LINK LINK LINK LINK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Never had any issues with singletons but watching food intact is certainly the hardest part if the bitch has a full milk bar . What would i do in this case i would probably consider the other bitch option as it will keep pup active & have littermates but it also wouldn't worry me if the option wasn't there & the bitch may reject them anyway . If i did go down the path of the other bitch then i wouldn't be using my bitch as a foster mother ,It would either be a pup for her or no pup I guess you can wait & see if your girl whelps naturally or ends up with a c section . We have had to remove bitches from there pups on the rare occasion & not one has had issues with it they just went about there normal life . Some bitches make awesome mothers & some make terrible ones & this is something you won't now either until your girl delivers. I had one bitch that would kill her pups given a chance until about 6 weeks old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 I would not allow the pup to stay for only 24 hrs. It either goes to the other bitch and they buy in colostrum, or it stays with it's Mum. Are you aware that sometimes a c-section is needed because one pup won't stimulate labour to begin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 If your bitch has a c-section .. yes, her hormones will be all over the place .. but removing a pup before she wakes will possibly lessen her grief /distress. Unless the bitch is unwell, or an unfit Mum .. I would not remove her baby ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 If your bitch has a c-section .. yes, her hormones will be all over the place .. but removing a pup before she wakes will possibly lessen her grief /distress. Unless the bitch is unwell, or an unfit Mum .. I would not remove her baby ...... I like this advice best... especially if you are not a seasoned breeder with some experience of these things. Odds are that your girl will require a c-section if she's only got one pup on board - something about singleton birth not necessarily producing enough of the hormone that aids the contractions, etc... Raising a singleton pup is harder than raising a larger litter, funnily enough. I'd be taking up the offer your breeder has given you and let them take the pup and see if the other bitch will take to it. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 If the bitch has a caesar I would take the puppy straight to the other litter, even if you have to milk out the colostrum to give to the puppy. She will not miss what she never sees and won't even know she ever had a baby. If she whelps normally, wait and see what sort of mum she is and if she has any milk. If she is an attentive mum and can feed the puppy, then let her keep it but take it over to socialise with the other litter from about 4 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 I'm thinking the other way, is there any chance you could take one of the other bitches pups to raise with yours? Keep some afterbirth and smear it on the other pup. At least then it would have another pup to interact with as it grows. Just a thought, it might be a really dumb suggestion, I dont know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 I have had 3 singleton pups & 3 singleton kittens in the last 10 years. 2 Kittens were ceasarian. All stayed with their mothers. Didn't have any issues or problems in either mothering areas or socialising areas. No problems when they left or grew up either. They do get more attention & tend to be very people orientated. There are other cats & dogs here which probably helps more than if its a single animal household. Personally I wouldn't just whip a pup away from its mother when there may be no need to at all. Having a single puppy isn't always a problem with birth or raising. With ceasarian not sure if she would know it had gone but with a normal birth she will know & fret & look for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Some of the larger breeds that normally have larger litters can have issues with singletons... In our rescue, we rarely had issues with small breed dogs with single pups, but it was a whole other ballgame for the larger breeds - in our experience anyways... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parkeyre Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Can one bitch have three pups and the other four? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jupiterlights Posted December 25, 2013 Author Share Posted December 25, 2013 (edited) Thanks all! I am still feeling quite conflicted and unsure how to proceed! I mentioned initially to the breeder and the vet that perhaps we should split the other dog's litter, but both breeder and vet not keen (too difficult, not worth it). I am aware that my dog is likely to need a c section, and have flagged the idea of taking pup immediately if she does. Breeder seems confident my bitch will be fine if we leave her with a soft toy that has her pup's scent on it. I have put out feelers for a foster litter but no luck at this time. Anyone with contacts or ideas welcome :) Edited December 25, 2013 by jupiterlights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 I have raised a few singleton litters without issue. What needs to be considered here is that the dog is not a rock. It actually does have feelings, and I know none of mine would be too impressed if someone nicked off with their pup. If it was my bitch, and it looked as if it was going to be able to raise the pup, it would keep the pup. I have never had a bitch without milk after a singleton birth or caesar. I suppose the breeder does have a say too, so that would need to figure in your calculations. I have no idea how much experience the breeder or the vet has (the vet probably has none), but I would leave the pup with the mother. I hope that whatever you do works out. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 I have raised a few singleton litters without issue. What needs to be considered here is that the dog is not a rock. It actually does have feelings, and I know none of mine would be too impressed if someone nicked off with their pup. If it was my bitch, and it looked as if it was going to be able to raise the pup, it would keep the pup. I have never had a bitch without milk after a singleton birth or caesar. I suppose the breeder does have a say too, so that would need to figure in your calculations. I have no idea how much experience the breeder or the vet has (the vet probably has none), but I would leave the pup with the mother. I hope that whatever you do works out. :) I agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 I would keep your pup with your bitch until she is weaned. If socialisation and play with a litter is desired, I would then maybe look at sending the pup to the breeder for a couple of weeks, until the other pups leave home. To be honest, if you put the work in, singletons are very rewarding. I've raised one and she was fantastic. I did sup feed for a couple of days while the bitches milk came in and then left them to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jupiterlights Posted December 25, 2013 Author Share Posted December 25, 2013 I have raised a few singleton litters without issue. What needs to be considered here is that the dog is not a rock. It actually does have feelings, and I know none of mine would be too impressed if someone nicked off with their pup. If it was my bitch, and it looked as if it was going to be able to raise the pup, it would keep the pup. I have never had a bitch without milk after a singleton birth or caesar. I suppose the breeder does have a say too, so that would need to figure in your calculations. I have no idea how much experience the breeder or the vet has (the vet probably has none), but I would leave the pup with the mother. I hope that whatever you do works out. :) The Vet is a reproduction specialist, he is very 'no bullshit' in his attitude, and seems highly regarded. He has already provided the breeder with medication to dry up my dog's milk after removing the pup. I am being told that 95% of breeders who have many litters (and are experienced) report 'no problems' with removing pups from their mums. This does not correspond to the information I am hearing elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 (edited) I have raised a few singleton litters without issue. What needs to be considered here is that the dog is not a rock. It actually does have feelings, and I know none of mine would be too impressed if someone nicked off with their pup. If it was my bitch, and it looked as if it was going to be able to raise the pup, it would keep the pup. I have never had a bitch without milk after a singleton birth or caesar. I suppose the breeder does have a say too, so that would need to figure in your calculations. I have no idea how much experience the breeder or the vet has (the vet probably has none), but I would leave the pup with the mother. I hope that whatever you do works out. :) The Vet is a reproduction specialist, he is very 'no bullshit' in his attitude, and seems highly regarded. He has already provided the breeder with medication to dry up my dog's milk after removing the pup. I am being told that 95% of breeders who have many litters (and are experienced) report 'no problems' with removing pups from their mums. This does not correspond to the information I am hearing elsewhere. I'm sorry but repro specialist or not, that's bullshit and I do not know of any reputable breeder who gives a crap about their bitches and pups that takes a singleton off it's mother ( unless there is a medical need to ) and then give it medication to dry up the milk, You are seriously underestimating the determination that bitches have to mother, be it a whole litter or a singleton. This is an example of breeders gone mad. Edited December 25, 2013 by WreckitWhippet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lillypilly Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 I would keep the pup and bitch together - singletons are a bit of extra work but can be reared successfully. If you need to adopt a neonate I have some lab cross newborns here. xx LP xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jupiterlights Posted December 25, 2013 Author Share Posted December 25, 2013 I would keep the pup and bitch together - singletons are a bit of extra work but can be reared successfully. If you need to adopt a neonate I have some lab cross newborns here. xx LP xx LP where are you located. I am looking for a foster litter if practicable…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lillypilly Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 I would keep the pup and bitch together - singletons are a bit of extra work but can be reared successfully. If you need to adopt a neonate I have some lab cross newborns here. xx LP xx LP where are you located. I am looking for a foster litter if practicable…. I have sent you a message with my phone number - you are welcome to ring me. No offense intended whatsoever but you do sound a little frenzied. xx LP xx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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