Dogs On Seats

[Rosetta]

Just reading some of these responses I now have a better understanding of why so many children and adults have such a degree of self entitlement - it comes from the parents. It does the kids no favours as it will come back to bite at some stage when all these "self-entitled" people come together all wanting things to suit themselves.

[megan_]

I love these posts bemoaning children's manners - it is the parents' manners that are at fault . These children are often being raised by people in your own generation - that is the generation to. " blame".

[Rosetta]

If that is aimed at me I raised my children years ago - and they had very good manners :laugh:

[tdierikx]

I had to use public transport while on crutches a while back... that was a serious eye-opener as to the general "care-not" attitude many have nowadays... many would stare as if giving me a challenge to ask for their seat too!

I have a serious back problem - not that you'd know it from looking at me - until I've been standing for about 30 mins straight... the pain factor apparently starts to show on my face then... *grin*

I will still stand or move seats to make room for someone older than me or pregnant though... no matter where it may be - public transport, vet clinic, doctor's clinic, or anywhere else where seats are at a premium.

T.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Ok we're way off topic but what the hell.

I just spent Christmas with my siblings' children, spouses and etc. And I was routinely amazed at how different the children's behaviour was and the expectations - compared to how I was brought up.

For instance - when there were pre dinner munchies - I - as a child - was expected to hand the food around before helping myself. I did eventually - count the chocolates first and eat one if there were not quite enough to go around :) the price of being snack slave.

As an adult - I'm still expected to hand the munchies around. WTF? The children all hoe in like starving pigs at the slops trough, but I'm expected to hand around the cheese and bikkies. Perhaps because my mum thinks it's ok to ask me but not my siblings or their children. Sigh. She also told me I needed to be nice to these children (ages 5 through 11) because I might need them to take care of me when I'm too old to take care of myself. I know who is going to be taking care of my mum when she can't do it for herself - it's going to be me.

And I suspect no matter how I deal with my siblings' children - they're not going to be taking care of me when I'm old. They probably won't even be taking care of their own parents. You can't make children want to do that. I'm banking on an excess of beds and care on the back end of the baby boomers as they no longer need care. That or die suddenly before I need care.

But children do depend on adults and family to take care of them and the way they treat adults should reflect that. Unfortunately - children being children - their brains aren't very good at figuring out the consequences of their actions. That's why they don't get to vote or drive a car too young. So they've got no idea the pain or insult they cause by forcing some adults to stand. It is up to their parents to teach them but often the parents are too distracted or busy to do that, and they have to pick their battles.

One interesting thing that happened at my brother's place - was the dog crap. There was several stray turds - not too bad compared to the usual mine field but not good either. So I'm getting dog bags out the car to pick stuff up - and my brother is yelling at me not to do it because his children are supposed to. Hmm. But his kids are not doing it... Eventually there was a bit of a half hearted effort but I think I did embarrass them into some action. There were fewer turds a couple of days later when we had to go up there, but also the clean up tools were easier to find.

Guess what my nephew is getting for his birthday? dog poo pick up tools and composting system. Sigh.

As for the chair being for people - erm... well she gets to sit on the couch. and my deck chairs when we're at agility competitions. My stuff, my rules. I don't let her sit on my mum's or brother's or anyone else's couches without permission. The vet chairs - it's ambiguous. I've never been asked to get her off, and they've always said ok when I've asked. But she's a clean looking, short coat dog, no slobber, who is nice to vets (but not their cats).

[Malamum]

I would never occur to me to invite my dog up onto a chair in a vet waiting room and it would never occur to them to try it either. They sit on the floor right at my feet and that is all they are allowed to do.

I've also never seen anyone else do it either and if I did I would think it strange if the dog were larger than toy size.

It's not really about germs but more about taking inappropriate liberties in a space that is not your own, however with that said I have on occasion had to go into our vet surgery straight from work and I'd not really be happy about sitting in chairs that had had dogs clambering all over them when wearing my work clothes.

[halfthewords]

Wow. I am amazed at the range of really strong opinions on this. I had no idea. I figured the seats at the vet were for whatever anyone wanted to put on them, all creatures great and small, and their handbags too.

For me its simple - seats are for humans, kids move off them for adults ALWAYS and dogs are only allowed on them when invited by the owner of the establishment in which the chairs are placed. To me it is simple courtesy. I've been shocked by how many people think its okay to let their dog do it :laugh: as I would NEVER allow mine to do it any more than I would allow my child to sit in a seat whilst an adult stood.

Yes! That's exactly how I feel about it

This

[cavNrott]

Just reading some of these responses I now have a better understanding of why so many children and adults have such a degree of self entitlement - it comes from the parents. It does the kids no favours as it will come back to bite at some stage when all these "self-entitled" people come together all wanting things to suit themselves.

I totally agree. The general consensus is that the parents are to blame for their rude children.

It sure will come back to bite them and they won't thank their parents for not teaching them good manners and respectful behaviour.

Edited to say: It's not my generation either that is to blame for neglecting to teach their children manners. My children are adults with their own babies and toddlers who I'm delighted to say at their very young ages are being taught manners by their parents.

Edited December 29, 2013 by cavNrott

[HazyWal]

I wonder if this will turn into the "children vs dogs in a burning building"? We haven't dragged that old chestnut out for a while lol.

[Rascalmyshadow]

My children have been taught to be polite and would quite happily give up their seats for someone in need but I would not allow them to move just because someone is older. OSoSwift has described the exact way my kids are brought up. Treat everyone equally no matter their age, respect does go both ways and they do not have to respect or obey someone just because they are older.

My generation are this way because of we were raised, we had no choices, were forced to obey adults just because, were told to be seen and not heard and smacking was a normal part of discipline. None of this taught respect all it did was teach us what not to do with our own kids and for myself it made me resent my parents to some extent.

Our animals were also brought up the same way and I didn't like it even as a kid, it is what has been my driving force to work with dogs,live with a pack, be with them 24hours a day, be able to observe their behaviours and get a better understanding of their true needs and basically revolve my entire life around them.

Being able to work with dogs on a daily basis particularly the 'problem dogs' as well as doing rescue and owning multiple of my own has taught me much better ways of treating, training, raising and living with my animals and children, without the need to bully or use stand over tactics.

[coogie]

Fair enough Rascalmyshadow, but I do have to say I hardly think that the fact I won't let my dogs jump on the furniture at the vets, means I treat them in the manner you describe above. I certainly don't smack them or order them about" just because".

I don't think expecting your dog to be able to sit quietly on the floor at the vet, means you are a bully or stand over merchant. My dogs are welcome on some of the furniture at my place - as long as they get down if asked - but that's because it is my place. So my rules. As I have said I am not bothered by dogs on chairs at the vet, but to me if you are going to respect everybody's point of view equally, you need to accept that some other owners/ staff/ the vet won't like it and have the right to ask people to get the dog down if they feel strongly about it, without being labelled a crank.

[Trisven13]

I would never occur to me to invite my dog up onto a chair in a vet waiting room and it would never occur to them to try it either. They sit on the floor right at my feet and that is all they are allowed to do.

I've also never seen anyone else do it either and if I did I would think it strange if the dog were larger than toy size.

It's not really about germs but more about taking inappropriate liberties in a space that is not your own, however with that said I have on occasion had to go into our vet surgery straight from work and I'd not really be happy about sitting in chairs that had had dogs clambering all over them when wearing my work clothes.

Yeah this is how I look at it.

I wonder if this will turn into the "children vs dogs in a burning building"? We haven't dragged that old chestnut out for a while lol.

LOL if it did I would save my horrible chair-giving up children first.

Fair enough Rascalmyshadow, but I do have to say I hardly think that the fact I won't let my dogs jump on the furniture at the vets, means I treat them in the manner you describe above. I certainly don't smack them or order them about" just because".

I don't think expecting your dog to be able to sit quietly on the floor at the vet, means you are a bully or stand over merchant. My dogs are welcome on some of the furniture at my place - as long as they get down if asked - but that's because it is my place. So my rules. As I have said I am not bothered by dogs on chairs at the vet, but to me if you are going to respect everybody's point of view equally, you need to accept that some other owners/ staff/ the vet won't like it and have the right to ask people to get the dog down if they feel strongly about it, without being labelled a crank.

Yes exactly. I too have worked in rescue and have a large dog pack. I also end up, as I said previously, with a large "kid" pack (two unanticipated kids sleeping over tonight). My kids and my dogs are treated with respect and love BUT they have rules and boundaries - I have different rules and boundaries to you obviously, but that doesn't mean that my kids or dogs are poorly treated or disrespected. I would expect that if my children (or dogs) went to your house that they would abide by your rules no matter how different they may be to mine and I would expect that if your children came to my house they would be abide by my rules. If I went to my vet and your dog was sitting on the seat I would think it was odd :laugh: (but then there are only 2 seats at my vets). I wouldn't tell you to get them to get off the seat BUT I wouldn't be overly surprised if the vet's staff asked you to.

[sandgrubber]

Everyone does not draw boundaries in the same place. I say, if it's harmless, let it be.

I would not assume everyone who allows (or encourages) their dog to sit on a seat is undisciplined or has not trained their dog. They may just want their dog beside them . . . for reason of habit, comfort, or for better management of a stress situation. I see no parallel to children who lack respect or discipline. The assumption is like the righteous folk back in the early 1900s who assumed women were wanton because they showed their ankles or wore bloomers.

Norms vary, and change. When I was a kid, a lot of people would have regarded crate training as cruel...but allowing a dog to run loose was normal.

Edited December 29, 2013 by sandgrubber

[Rosetta]

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Edited December 29, 2013 by Rosetta

[tarope]

Juice,

How did you go at the vets yesterday ?

Gee has this thread gone off topic... what has children or their manners go to do with dogs on seats at the vets. Maybe in the near future vet staff won't let kids on the seats either...who knows.

[Steph M]

Juice,

How did you go at the vets yesterday ?

Gee has this thread gone off topic... what has children or their manners go to do with dogs on seats at the vets. Maybe in the near future vet staff won't let kids on the seats either...who knows.

Sounds fine to me! Haha.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Hmm.

I'm hoping that if anyone is profoundly offended or freaked out by something I or my dog is doing that they would politely say "what you're doing makes me feel deeply uncomfortable, would it be alright if you do <insert acceptable behaviour here> instead?"

And that gives me the opportunity to get my dog off the chair, seek a chair wipe (I do carry sanitizer and Kleenex in the bag) and fix it, rather than be scowled at or yelled at in the vet's waiting room.

However I have been guilty of scowling at or yelling at people who don't clean up after their dogs or children at the park. I usually start off helpful eg "Do you need a bag for that?" and offer them one.

[Cody]

Hmm.

I'm hoping that if anyone is profoundly offended or freaked out by something I or my dog is doing that they would politely say "what you're doing makes me feel deeply uncomfortable, would it be alright if you do <insert acceptable behaviour here> instead?"

And that gives me the opportunity to get my dog off the chair, seek a chair wipe (I do carry sanitizer and Kleenex in the bag) and fix it, rather than be scowled at or yelled at in the vet's waiting room.

However I have been guilty of scowling at or yelling at people who don't clean up after their dogs or children at the park. I usually start off helpful eg "Do you need a bag for that?" and offer them one.

I'm more grossed out by kids than dogs.