Damchi

[Tibbie_tabbie]

Has anyone ever heard of the Damchi in Australia?

[OSoSwift]

Have never heard of that, looks like a gorgeous little dog though :)

[Tibbie_tabbie]

Aren't they? I saw a picture and thought it was a tibbie, then when I saw the name thought maybe a byb name for a cross ; X

Sadly not much information on them around.

[kelpiecuddles]

The information I found suggested that other than a few that may or may not be in Germany they are becoming increasingly rare even in Bhutan as locals are favouring more 'exotic' breeds like labs and dals...

Sad, they sound like nice dogs

[BlackJaq]

I've found this (sorry, it's German) text: http://books.google.de/books?id=dyCA4GwVYO4C&pg=PA57&lpg=PA57&dq=Damchi+hund&source=bl&ots=FWitDks0LK&sig=pgELjQ11KXcMha4bw5XV6-Gj9Hw&hl=de&sa=X&ei=wtW0UrIFivugBNzlgsgG&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Damchi%20hund&f=false

Basically they don't officially differentiate between the Tibetan Spaniel and the Damchi in Germany. Couldn't find any listings or any websites in German, only one page had an actual description of them as a separate breed.

[mita]

My understanding is that the Damchi is the Tibetan Spaniel of Bhutan. But bigger, more like a small-medium dog. There's a Damchi on one of their stamps. Some people in Germany imported some:

http://pages.rediff.com/damchi/1004655

This one on a greetings card seems pretty accurate ... & shows how Tibbie-like they are.

http://www.zazzle.com.au/bhutan_damchi_dog_portrait_blank_greeting_card-137039857014688534

Edited, found an English translation of this European page (in French). Tells about Chotu, a Damchi imported from Bhutan to Germany. There was discussion with the International Tibetan Spaniel Working Party about relevance to Tibetan Spaniel bloodlines:

http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://tibby1538.tripod.com/id39.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3DPrimoz%2BPeer%2BDamchi%26biw%3D1022%26bih%3D599

A terrible English translation (from Finnish?) tells more

about that:

http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=fi&u=http://www.tiibetinspanielit.fi/cms/images/artikkelit/bhutanin_damchi_ja_tiibetinspanieli.pdf&prev=/search%3Fq%3DInternational%2BTibetan%2BSpaniel%2BWorking%2BParty%2BDamchi%2BChotu%2BBhutan%26biw%3D1022%26bih%3D599

Edited December 21, 2013 by mita

[Marion 01]

They are lovely, I had never heard of them, but they could be mistaken for an oversize Tibbie. Apparently there are a few in Germany, but the gene pool is so thin, what a shame they are not more available.

[Tibbie_tabbie]

It is a shame, they sound almost identical to Tibs, including personality.

I wonder why some breeds were favoured over others? Tibbies were exported by the British, why not the Damchi's that were in India (a former colony).

[mita]

TT, the British Army were in Tibet for a while. I have a lovely excerpt from the diary of a British officer, describing the troops marching out of Tibet, back to home base in India. It was the wife of a senior British officer, back in India, who was responsible for the first of those Tibetan 'spaniel' types to go back to the UK. I think there were 3 of them, at first.

The British were never in occupation in Bhutan .. so the Bhutanese Damchi, didn't get into a Western context.

Edited December 22, 2013 by mita

[mita]

Here's the eye-witness account by Lieutenant Mark Synge describing, in 1904, how the British soldiers marched out of Tibet, taking with them Tibetan dogs that they'd adopted as pets.

"Many of the troops had acquired pets of various kinds...mainly dogs.

It was a touching sight to see great bearded men sometimes leading, but as often as not carrying, dainty little lapdogs, of kinds that resembled the Pomeranian or the King Charles Spaniel.

One or two Tibetan mastiffs...more like huge Welsh ponies than mastiffs...also accompanied us."

(Interesting, because even today in the 21st century those 'dainty little lapdogs' (Tibetan Spaniels) are still often misidentified as pomeranions or king charles spaniels.)

These Tibetan dogs were taken back to the British Army base in northern India.

The wife of one officer, Colonel Younghusband, is credited with bringing some tibbies back to England.

If the British had occupied Bhutan, maybe we'd be owning Damchis now. :)

Edited December 22, 2013 by mita

[Marion 01]

Yes Mita, that seems to be the problem, they didn't get the exposure of the other breeds, and with the very thin gene pool in Germany they are in danger of fading into oblivion. I can remember reading copies of letters in Tibetan Terrier books, 35 or so years ago of a few people who travelled to Tibet and found some pure Tibetan Terriers and negotiated with the Tibetan people to buy them, & bring them back to the US, and same with the soldiers with the Tibbies etc, but had that have been done in Bhutan with the Damchi they would now be a breed that is safe from extinction.

[mita]

I can remember reading copies of letters in Tibetan Terrier books, 35 or so years ago of a few people who travelled to Tibet and found some pure Tibetan Terriers and negotiated with the Tibetan people to buy them, & bring them back to the US, and same with the soldiers with the Tibbies etc, but had that have been done in Bhutan with the Damchi they would now be a breed that is safe from extinction.

Interesting about the Tibetan Terriers, Marion. Recently, a Tibetan Spaniel registered with the Singapore Kennel Club turned up in Australia (in rescue, the person who'd imported him dumped him). Named Zou Chai. He was bigger than the range with Western tibbies. More the size of a Damchi. Enquiries revealed he was one of the Tibbies that did not have Western genes.... but came from a line which had come down from Tibet thro' India. One of the Qld registered breeders said she'd have loved to use those genes. But Zou Chai had been desexed.

Sad for the Damchi.... as you say ... there's not been a big effort to get them more widely spread than Bhutan.

The Tibetan Spaniels in Tibet may have included bigger ones.

Photo taken in Tibet in 1899. The bloke in the middle is a big boy, just like a Damchi. (click, enlarge).

Edited December 22, 2013 by mita

[BlackJaq]

Wow.. It's pretty interesting that somebody would import a dog and then dump it.. Were there any reasons given at all?

[mita]

Wow.. It's pretty interesting that somebody would import a dog and then dump it.. Were there any reasons given at all?

Not any reasons we knew, BJ. The person might've had some connection with Singapore. It wasn't an Australian registered breeder.

He finished up being adopted by a wonderful family who adored him. The dad was a Vietnam Vet with severe PTSD & they became very close. He said this tibbie helped him more than any professional.

[raz]

Maybe not many got out of Bhutan because it's still a relatively closed country. The King of Bhutan may have forbidden the removal of the breed.

Lovely little dogs. I hadnt heard of them before this thread.

[Tibbie_tabbie]

As there were a good number in India, this is where the ones in Germany were from, I thought maybe some had made it to the UK (due to the links between the two countries, although I know it used to be challenging to bring your dog from India to the UK).

I found a record on the gov of Bhutan web page, enquiring on exporting breeding pair to the US....

Maybe Damchi's are out there, just disgused as tibbies :)

It seems a shame that such old breeds are disappearing.

Maybe it should be a new thread - which breeds are dying out.

[Tibbie_tabbie]

Wow.. It's pretty interesting that somebody would import a dog and then dump it.. Were there any reasons given at all?

Double post!

Edited December 23, 2013 by Tibbie_tabbie

[Marion 01]

Who is to say that there are not Damchi genes in the early Tibbie pedigrees. Surely if they went through India, where most of the other Tibetan breeds went, there would have been some saved to other countries, and because they were so much like Tibbies, maybe going under the Tibbie name. The only way to tell for sure would be DNA. The lady who brought the Tibetan Terrier out of Tibet, via India, and then the UK, was an English doctor who worked & lived in Cawnpore. When China invaded Tibet most of the dogs were killed, but a lot of the dog breeds were either hidden or taken on the long journey by foot out of the country. Zou Chai would have been a real find had he not been desexed. I tried googling about Damchi and there is not a lot of useful info. Another interesting thing is their colouring, which is mostly like a tri colour, or black with white, looking more like a grizzled or pepper blend.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Marion 01

[Tibbie_tabbie]

http://www.himalayanlanguages.org/files/driem/pdfs/2008D'amchi.pdf

Hmm, 'old style' longer snouted tibbies I've heard of before, so maybe they are around in tibbie lines.

[Marion 01]

Thanks, that was really interesting reading, Tibbie tabbie. So if there was anyone who wanted to get really serious about these dogs, they need to get some DNA done of the ones in Bhutan, that won't happen, but it would be a start. The languages are so complex.