gemibabe Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 This morning, both dog and child were on my bed while I was waking up. They were mucking around and my son went to pick shelby up and she growled at him. I asked what that noise was, cause it sounded odd, and he said it was shelby... When I got up, I asked him to show me what he did, and she growled at him again. I then did the same thing to her, and she didn't growl. Whats going on with her? They haven't had any other problems. If anything, they have stopped playing mentally with each other, and he is slowly learning respect for dogs. As a pup, she growled at him once or twice while she was sleeping or going to bed. could this just be a grumpy dog at that time of morning??? I sure do hope so... How do I stop her from growling at him??? ARGH! If its not one thing, its another Kylie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Could be the atmosphere your son is producing when he goes near her...like vibes. If I walk slowly towards my dog she goes in play position and starts running around like mad. I dont have to say a word..she knows im going to start chasing her and playing with her. They can just sense things. This girl who comes to my home sometimes puts off some bad vibes..my past dog would growl at her whenever she picked him up. My dog i have know won't come inside when she's over... Not saying you're son is a bad person but it may justbe the way he is approaching her... She prob feels a need to protect herself for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-j Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 could this just be a grumpy dog at that time of morning???I sure do hope so... How do I stop her from growling at him??? I would go and see someone who is reputable and qualified to deal with aggression. Ask your vet. I know of some good trainers over in WA but no behavioural trainers or behaviourists. Your dog growled when your son was picking him up and not you, he may feel the kid is a pushover or there could be another explanation. Don't try and fix this yourself so many things can go wrong, with disasterous consequences if you don't really understand what is going on in the dogs head and we are talking about your child/ren, do you really want to take the risk? Imo NOT WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!! cheers M-J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 How do I stop her from growling at him??? By not letting the dog to sleep on your bed. Thats a very good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ci Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 (edited) Are you sure she is not sore or hurt or has a sensitive spot that he touched???? Because of their history, she have been worried by him picking her up and think he may be going to do something. Whereas she trusts you. It could be something very simple like that. Growling don't nessarilly mean she was being aggressive. If it continues - maybe put a doggie bed next to your bed that is hers and where she sleeps. Edited April 20, 2005 by Ci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparty Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 could be of that age where she is trying to sort out ranking and feels as she is also allowed on the bed she is equal or higher than your son? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Does your dog perhaps see itself sitting above your son in the social ladder? Perhaps him taking on giving the dog her meals etc may help but as another poster mentioned it could be the vibe he's giving as he approaches. I hate to say it because I love dogs on beds but any attitude I get from Leila is from when she's been on the bed, some say by letting a dog on your bed you're saying your an equal or allowing the dog to be higher than you. I generally think it's ok to allow a dog on a bed as long as when you ask them to get off they do without a problem. If the problem persist after reading up on peoples replies and doing some research I would seek proffessional assistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wiser Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 It sounds to me like your son hurt the dog when he tried to pick her up. A growl is the dogs warning system. I would take that warning to heart and tell your son not to try and pick the dog up again. You didn't say how old your son is or how old the dog is but I don't allow children to pick dogs up. It also sounds like your son and this dog have had issues in the past that the dog has not forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemibabe Posted April 20, 2005 Author Share Posted April 20, 2005 I can't see how he could of hurt her... He is 5yrs old, Shelby is 18mnths and 18kgs Myszka I haven't said she sleeps on my bed, and she doesn't. She sleeps under the fire. They both come into my room as I'm waking up. My son usually asks for breakfast, and I answer him, then they are on the bed. Nothing different to this scenario except he tried to pick her up this morning. No bad vibes... they play wonderfully, although she thinks he is one of her litter mates and use to nip him a fair bit. She reacts to his high pitched play voice and her anxiety levels rise, but that is on the decline too, as I don't allow them to play much together anymore. If he was running around the yard she use to nip him and push him down. she doesn't do that anymore. She is improving and now this (if it is anything at all) If he had hurt her, then I would of hurt her. I tried picking her up in several spots around the ribs/belly and nothing. I think Ci maybe on the right track. Maybe a trust issue?? Thankyou to everyone that has had something constructive to say Regards, Kylie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-j Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Normally I would keep my mouth shut, but I feel this needs to be said..... It is great that there are people that have taken the time and effort to help somebody else, but unless you know the dog and owner personally and were there at the time, you can't say it wasn't an aggressive act. Giving blase advise on growling/aggression and kids over the internet has the potential to be very dangerous (just my opinion for what it's worth). In my limited experience most kids don't want to train the dog not to growl at them/bite them, they just want to go on with their lives in a stress free environment/home and they should be able to. Aggression and adults is different 1) they have a choice 2) they should be experienced enough with life to realise that if you play with fire you may get burnt 3) size, strength etc gives them an upper hand over kids. 4) hopefully they will realise once the dog has shown aggressive tendencies they won't think you can go through a retraining program and then rest assured that the dog will never aggress ever again under any circumstance. Also there may be a medical reason as to why the dog is aggressing, as has been mentioned, a veterinary behaviourist can help with that. The behaviourist I refer people to is generally $250 for a several hours consult and there will be training with a professional trainer also, maybe , yes that is alot of money to find out that this dog isn't really aggressive, but what price are you prepared to put on your children or someone elses? How do you think you would feel if you guessed wrong? I'm sorry if I have offended anyone as I know the advise was given with good intentions but I feel very strongly about this subject. I'll get off the soapbox now cheers M-J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wiser Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 The original poster did in fact ask for opinions of members of this forum, that's why people gave them. Many of us have experienced such a situation and people here are merely stating what they think may be of assistance. You did exactly the same thing m-j I don't consider a warning growl from a dog to be aggression. It is in fact a warning, telling the child not to do that as it either hurts, is uncomfortable or you are frightening me. The dog was communicating the only way he could. Had this escalated beyond that then it would have been aggression. If no one gave their experience or opinion when requested here then there would be very little need for the forum. The original poster is not a fool and will take what she considers to be appropriate action. I would say she just wanted to hear what others think about the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemibabe Posted April 20, 2005 Author Share Posted April 20, 2005 Look I have no idea why she growled at him. It can't be a medical thing as she didn't seem to mind me doing it. Maybe she didn't want to be moved away from mum? Could it be that simple? Growling is not a sign of aggression. Its how the dog communicates either thru play, when guarding or when sick etc... You can't say that as soon as a dog growls its being aggressive??? C'mon!! Yes she growled, but as wiser has pointed out, it was a warning to 'not do that too me please' and that is why I did it to her, to see if she was sore... But no, no sign of tenderness. She pretty much didn't want to be moved/touched and I want to understand why! Why now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Nice posts Wiser Don't punish the growling, teach your son to stop what he is doing when she growls, and see how they interact in other situations...if she is growling at other times with him then consult a trainer about it. Sounds like she just didn't want to be picked up, and a five year old cannot pick up an 18kg dog correctly- their hands are not big enough for one thing, he may have just poked her where it was not wanted. My staff doesn't even like being picked up by me - she is sensitive under the rib cage, it's just their build. On a 'careful' note, when children pick up dogs of any type, it puts the dog very close to their face, I really don't think it's a good idea in any situation, good or bad. Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemibabe Posted April 20, 2005 Author Share Posted April 20, 2005 Staffordsrule thankyou and I have no idea what possessed my son to even attempt to pick her up. They dance together all the time. My son holds her front legs and they do a little dance. She lets him do almost anything to her... this just set alarm bells ringing for me and I do hope it was a once off. I have asked him not to do it again, as next time she may bite him. I do have to tread carefully in this area as I don't want to instil into him fear of dogs, that he once had... Thanks again, Kylie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 The bed is a resource to her that's all - it's valuable to her...if she's afraid of losing it...then growling would be normal, also if has never really picked her up before then that would explain why... Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-j Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 If no one gave their experience or opinion when requested here then there would be very little need for the forum. The majority of questions don't involve dogs growling at kids, with those questions you could tell the owner to fly the dog to China and I couldn't care less, but when it comes to kids that's different Many of us have experienced such a situation and people here are merely stating what they think may be of assistance. You did exactly the same thing m-j So have I but I didn't tell gemibabe what I did because her dog might not respond like my dog did. I have heard too many stories I suppose, some coming from people who should have known better, but they treated the dogs growling as nothing, underwent a self planned retraining session (they were dog trainers they knew what they were doing, not) to the kids detriment. Yes but my advise couldn't lead to a potential disaster if I guessed wrong. The original poster is not a fool and will take what she considers to be appropriate action. I would say she just wanted to hear what others think about the situation. I didn't realise you knew gemibabe, what about the guest who is reading this thinks I have a dog like that and tries what has been suggested but because it isn't same dog and handler, different outcome. She obviously has some queries about her dogs behaviour (smart girl) otherwise she wouldn't have asked on here. When it comes to dogs and aggro precursors and kids you don't assume, you find out for certain! cheers M-J cheers M-J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-j Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Growling is not a sign of aggression. Its how the dog communicates either thru play, when guarding or when sick etc... You can't say that as soon as a dog growls its being aggressive??? C'mon!! Very true!!, but what is the dog trying to communicate? Dogs that growl while playing are communicating, have you ever seen a dog that normally growls with dogs when playing, play with a strange dog, the other dog worries all sorts of things can happen. A guarding dog is asking the recipient of his growling to come in and have a cup of tea? don't think so. Most vets that I know treat a dog that is sick and growling with a great deal of respect. One of the best pieces of training advise I have ever been given is, it is the animals story listen to them. If you don't listen to what your dog is trying to tell you, he may try to communicate a little louder and take the precursor that little bit further. If you don't want to percieve growling as an aggro you can't deny it is a precursor. Look, this maybe a one of but do you really want to assume/guess that? Staffords rule advise about observing is a good idea. cheers M-J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemibabe Posted April 21, 2005 Author Share Posted April 21, 2005 She hasn't shown any other signs of aggression towards my son. I have been watching ehr but there hasn't been any other chance for her to growl as I have told my son not to pick her up again... Should I ask him to try again? Have banned her from jumping up on the bed now too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 (edited) Gemibabe: Should I ask him to try again? Definitely not. I'm with Staffordsrule on this one. Your dog warned your son that she didn't want to be picked up by him. She might find the experience uncomfortable or unsettling due to his lack of size and balance and she told him quite plainly that she didn't want it to occur. I don't see that as aggression - hell, dogs are not inanimate objects and they are entitled to express themselves in such situations. Better a growl than a bite any day! The bed may or may not have been a factor in the growling - only by close observation will you figure that one out. As Susan Clothier says, its not important whether or not your dog has access to the bed - what IS important is whether they'll vacate it if you ask them to. I'd be keeping an eye on their interactions but the most important thing for your son to learn is that your dog is not a toy and that there are limits on what he can and can't subject her to. When she growls he needs to know that it means "stop that NOW I don't like it". He needs to learn that your dog has feelings too. Standard rule applies GB - all play between the two needs to be supervised. :D Edited April 21, 2005 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemibabe Posted April 27, 2005 Author Share Posted April 27, 2005 Thanks poodlefan, We have had no other incidents so far. They rarely play together now that he is at school fulltime and I have banned all play inside. Kylie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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