Poo Everywhere!

[leny333]

Hi everyone,

I know there have been numerous posts on puppies eating their own poo but I have a few more questions and a slightly different problem.

I have had my 11 week old Whippet for 4 days now and he has been very good so far. He is doing his business outside and when inside he knows to go on the pee pads. He is sleeping through the night which is good but my main problem is separating him from me or my fiance.

We have set up the laundry with a see through gate so that we can confine him to that area when we need to do things. If we go away from him he whines and whines which is fine. I know i have to just let him do his thing and I've been gradually making the time longer and longer when I'm in other rooms and he's in the laundry. But I think he's getting over anxious or something because even if I give him yummy treats to amuse himself or a toilet roll with treats inside (which he loves) he still either howls and whimpers, or just sits and stares at the door waiting for me to come back.

Yesterday I went outside the house and sat there for about 20 minutes just listening to him to see what he'd do and he whined on and off the whole time. When he stopped for a bit I went back in and he had pood on the pad, but had picked up his poo, taken it into his crate and eaten it. (euw)

Then this morning he went outside for a poo in the morning which was great and I put pepper on it and let him sniff it again and he didn't seem as interested in it. But then I left him in the laundry for 5 minutes while I got my breakfast and when I went to check on him (because he was nice and quiet) he'd done a poo again and this time had put his paws in it and spread it all over the room. Literally everywhere.

The puppy school has suggested that I change his diet to raw because at the moment he's on proplan puppy and they said that his poo might be smelling attractive because he's missing something or not digesting it properly. Is there anything I can do while I'm converting him though so I'm able to leave him alone? I don't want him to get more severe separation anxiety when I'm gone and I also don't want him developing a habit of playing with his poo.

Help please!!!

[Salukifan]

Is there any reason the pup cant' be given access outside to toilet or when you aren't there? The laundry is not a good long term option for confining him. I suggest you set him up in the space you intend that he spend his time when you go back to work.

If you don't want him walking in his own poo (not pleasant for him either by the way) then he needs more space to be in when confined.

How much do you know about a proper balanced raw diet for a pup? if the answer is "not much" now is not the time to be changing his diet.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[aliwake]

It sounds like you're doing the right things to me. Our pup was the same - he was very distressed in his playpen. He never grew to like it particularly, and would often walk in his poo and spread it around.

The only way that he would settle enough to sleep in there, was if I put a crate inside for him. He was also never that interested in playing in there, despite having lots of lovely toys.

For us he was always eventually going to go outside during the day, so we just had to suck it up for a couple of months, til he was bigger, and eventually we made it through.

Now, at 10 months, he's pretty well adjusted and seems happy enough to let us leave to go to work during the day, and he thoroughly enjoys being outside - especially if it's raining :)

Our boy also ate his fair share of poo - though it only started after a vet visit. Now he only seems to do it if he's not feeling very well? There doesn't seem to be a sure way to stop it - you just need to limit exposure as much as you can. I doubt switching to raw would change that behaviour, but I'm not an expert... I'm sure there're plenty of puppies on proplan that don't eat their poo.

[leny333]

Is there any reason the pup cant' be given access outside to toilet or when you aren't there? The laundry is not a good long term option for confining him. I suggest you set him up in the space you intend that he spend his time when you go back to work.

If you don't want him walking in his own poo (not pleasant for him either by the way) then he needs more space to be in when confined.

How much do you know about a proper balanced raw diet for a pup? if the answer is "not much" now is not the time to be changing his diet.

From what I've read and what the puppy school recommended I thought you weren't meant to let puppies go outside on their own until they were a bit older? Also the laundry is quite large (larger than the play pens that I've read about and have been suggested to me) so I don't think that he needs more room. He's not cramped in there. There is plenty of room for his crate, water bowl and toileting area to be quite separate from one another as well as room for him to play. When he got a bit older we were going to train him to use a doggy door and go outside by himself to do his business instead of us taking him out all the time but I'm not comfortable allowing him to do this when he's just a puppy. I don't know too much about feeding raw but I thought I would get the puppy schools advice as well as my vets advice before changing anything of course. I really don't think it has anything to do with him not having space. He just seems really interested in his own poo. Even when we're outside and there's plenty of room he tries to smell and eat it.

[leny333]

It sounds like you're doing the right things to me. Our pup was the same - he was very distressed in his playpen. He never grew to like it particularly, and would often walk in his poo and spread it around.

The only way that he would settle enough to sleep in there, was if I put a crate inside for him. He was also never that interested in playing in there, despite having lots of lovely toys.

For us he was always eventually going to go outside during the day, so we just had to suck it up for a couple of months, til he was bigger, and eventually we made it through.

Now, at 10 months, he's pretty well adjusted and seems happy enough to let us leave to go to work during the day, and he thoroughly enjoys being outside - especially if it's raining :)

Our boy also ate his fair share of poo - though it only started after a vet visit. Now he only seems to do it if he's not feeling very well? There doesn't seem to be a sure way to stop it - you just need to limit exposure as much as you can. I doubt switching to raw would change that behaviour, but I'm not an expert... I'm sure there're plenty of puppies on proplan that don't eat their poo.

It's good to hear that someone else has had the same problem. When did you start letting your dog use a doggy door and go outside alone? I'm not sure that the diet will fix things either but I'm willing to try. I was considering changing to raw anyway eventually.

[Salukifan]

The only restriction you need to put on a pup being outside alone is that the yard is safe. You can even section off a bit of the yard if necessary.

I start my pups using the dog door as soon as they get home and my rule is that the pup never pees or poos in the house. Very difficult for a pup to undersand that its OK to do that sometimes but not at other times. If you want reliable toilet training, I'd be encouraging the pup to toilet outside from the get go. He is old enough to use a dog door now. Allowing him to come and go will make less of a deal about you leaving. If the only time the pup is placed in the laundry is to be separated from you, that would build anxiety. Have you considered using a crate in the living room?

Some pups eat poo. One of my Whippet pups did this and the only way to deter it was to remove it as fast as possible. He grew out of it.

Your vet will probably try to sell you product. What is the puppy school's qualifications in nutrition? Feed what you want to feed, it won't affect the pup wanting to eat poo IMO.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[raineth]

I second HW's advice regarding the laundry vs outside. If you are happy for him to always defecate in the laundry then continue on. But if you want him to toilet outside, and not inside, then you need to train him to only go outside :)

If your yard is secure, and has shelter, he will be fine.

In regards to training him to accept being alone, you need to take much smaller steps. Put him outside, then close the door. Open the door and let him back in before he is distressed. Maybe that will be one minute, or maybe it will be one second. It is good that you are giving him something nice to distract him, but you need to make sure that he is not getting stressed. You gradually build up his time alone so he learns there is nothing to worry about, you will come back.

Dogs are situational learners. So if your plan is for him to be outside when you're not at home, then you need to train him to accept being alone outside, not in the laundry. Same with toilet training. It will be difficult for him to understand that he should no longer toilet in the laundry.

[Salukifan]

I think the ideal for a Whippet is limited access inside via a dog door. They do not deal well with extremes of temperature.

What toys does he have? Alone time needs to have activities that he can enjoy. Feeding outside, a few cardboard boxes and fluffy toys to destroy play with can all help to teach him to amuse himself.

[aliwake]

It sounds like you're doing the right things to me. Our pup was the same - he was very distressed in his playpen. He never grew to like it particularly, and would often walk in his poo and spread it around.

The only way that he would settle enough to sleep in there, was if I put a crate inside for him. He was also never that interested in playing in there, despite having lots of lovely toys.

For us he was always eventually going to go outside during the day, so we just had to suck it up for a couple of months, til he was bigger, and eventually we made it through.

Now, at 10 months, he's pretty well adjusted and seems happy enough to let us leave to go to work during the day, and he thoroughly enjoys being outside - especially if it's raining :)

Our boy also ate his fair share of poo - though it only started after a vet visit. Now he only seems to do it if he's not feeling very well? There doesn't seem to be a sure way to stop it - you just need to limit exposure as much as you can. I doubt switching to raw would change that behaviour, but I'm not an expert... I'm sure there're plenty of puppies on proplan that don't eat their poo.

It's good to hear that someone else has had the same problem. When did you start letting your dog use a doggy door and go outside alone? I'm not sure that the diet will fix things either but I'm willing to try. I was considering changing to raw anyway eventually.

We don't have a doggy door. When we leave we put him outside, and when we're home we either let him out when he needs to go, or leave the door open for him to come and go as he likes.

We have a very secure yard, but I wasn't comfortable having him outside when he was small - we have lots of big brush turkeys and possums and I didn't want him becoming fearful of them when he was small and we weren't there to supervise.

So, for the first couple of months he was in his playpen in the laundry when we went to work. We had an inside toilet he was trained to use, and he used it well 'most' of the time. But he had no poo awareness, and would occasionally eat it, or often step in it.

I was going home every lunch time, so he would see someone every 4 hours and I could clean the toilet etc. We also had a webcam set up to check on him (which is how I know how distressed he got at times).

Despite all this inside toileting, once he started being outside during the day, i think we only had 1 inside accident from that time forwards. He is inside all night and has never tried to toilet inside, so I think they can easily adapt to new situations.

[aliwake]

P.s. we always fed him in the laundry too, to help keep it as a positive place, even though he didn't like the playpen. He doesn't seem to have any lingering issues with it now - in fact it seems to be his crate equivalent - he'll go lie down in there if he wants some quiet time, and space to himself.

I still remember we had a party one afternoon when he was about 12 weeks, and when he got sick of playing with all the kids he wandered away quietly and I found him sleeping in the laundry. I was so proud of him that day!

[ChewieTAG]

My little girl gone through the eating poo and playing poo bits when she was young. I find maybe puppy so young is not able to fully process the food hence the poo may smell of food.

I initially given her Optimum as breeder uses it. But I changed it canidae brand later on. I used two type to mix it together, All stage & pure sea. Her poo smells very fishy after that and she is not interested after sniffing it. I give her pumpkins too. It suppose to create pungy poo that dogs don't like.

But I find they will grow out of it. They are very playful at that stage and will play on anything.

As for stepping on poo...this takes a longer time ............

Edited December 19, 2013 by chewak

[LisaCC]

I originally fed proplan and my pup never ate his own poo so it's not that particular food.

Some dogs just like to eat poo, my lab certainly did.

[Christina]

Changing diet soon after getting a pup may result in tummy upsets. Feed the same diet & introduce new foods slowly & gradually mixing new in with old.

Alone in a yard while you are out is unsafe for a young puppy. Its heat wave weather, snake season, silly holiday season, high theft time & inside if you are not home is safer.

Some eat poo & some don't. No one is really sure why. It may stop. Early days yet.

Move it as soon as you see it & can.

[BlackJaq]

I have a question regarding spreading poo around!

It's been a while since we had a young puppy, so my memory is fuzzy.. Is their poo soft when they are young? All our dogs seem to have pretty firm poo, the more bones and meat in their diet, the firmer their poo and the less smell there is... So even if they stepped in their own poo, it would be like stepping on a rock or a stick, none of it sticks to them, gets squished or is otherwise spreadable (unless they pick it up and move it somewhere)...

Are young puppies different or does it depend on their diet? I know a lot of other dogs, especially the ones on cheap kibbles and wet food, seem to have sloppy, soft serve type poo, which is obviously very spreadable....But this is clearly diet related...?

Edited December 21, 2013 by BlackJaq

[persephone]

. I do think it is dietary . Ours get raw bones/meat from when they can chew and DRY puppy kibble - no extras, no milk . No mess,, no soft anything , no smell ..and nothing to step in :) Lovely!

However, when puppies are distressed , the digestive system pushes out waste at a faster rate .. and an upset puppy/dog can have loose poo or diarrhoea

Edited December 21, 2013 by persephone

[LisaCC]

My puppy had very loose stools when he came home but thats because he was being fed raw chicken and we soon found out he was intolerant (few poop explosions later ). As soon as we made the switch to a good quality dry (Proplan puppy at the time actually) and turkey necks instead of chicken frames they were nice and firm.

Now on his new grain free diet they don't even smell!!

I've heard a lot of puppies can have loose stools when they arrive simply from stress.

[tdierikx]

Good quality food - raw or dry - will usually result in firmer poo that is easier to pick up and doesn't get spread about too much. Then again, it also depends on how many puppies you have at the time too - more puppies means more poo, therefore more chance that someone will walk in/on it or decide to play with it... *sigh*

T.

[alpha bet]

Your pups needs more space and much more time outdoors. Even tho he is a whippet he is still a dog.... needs to have the chance to be dog.

You live in Queensland and its December... certainly not cold that is a problem for pup outdoors. Nothing stopping you fencing off a section of the backyard to create a large pen (go to a local rural fencing store and purchase prefab panels), big enough so pup can charge around and have fun.... Ensure there is plenty of shade, ideally access to grass and perhaps a shallow wading pool and a sandpit...... he will enjoy being outdoors and having a chance to frolic, dig and roll .... basically learning to be a dog! If he has plenty of toys and activities he won't even worry about playing with his own poo.

Diet is certainly worth looking at.... possibly he doesnt have enough fibre in his diet.... try a raw food option rather than processed dry food (boring).... lots of information on the internet and also some of the raw options are now available packaged commercially. One thing many have done to prevent them eating the poo is to mash some pineapple into his food... this usually stops them eating their poo immediately.

good luck

[leny333]

Thanks for your help everyone! We changed his diet and he doesn't seem to be interested in his poo anymore. He's now eating a mix of hills kibble and BARF raw food and that seems to be working for him. His poo is less sloppy so maybe he's digesting it better?

[persephone]

Well Done :) That does sound as if it suits him .