Desex Age

[fluff1234]

Hi. I have read so many articles and had so much different advice regarding the age to desex my dog, including on this forum.

He is a 6 mth old male samoyed and some say not until he is 18mths-2 yrs due to the bone growth and development and risk of bone issues if done too soon, others have said he can be done anytime and wont cause issues, unsure what too believe? He is satrting to lift his leg and pee along the fence line and becomming more and more ignorant in training, which he has attended since 10 weeks. He humps the carpets and goes wild on the lead on walks now, trying to get to the yard dogs which he previously ignored.

Whats your opinion on the best age?

thanks

also recently read an article which says 84% of fataal dog bites were from desexed dogs!! so I am assuming desexing is far safer in a family dog which we will not breed from, expecially when there are 3 outside un dexed yard dogs around nearby..

Also

all the breeders for the next dog we are looking at for the end of next year, dessex before you buy them, as tiny puppies and none will sell undexed puppies, is this the norm for some breeds?

Edited December 7, 2013 by fluff1234

[LisaCC]

Hi. I have read so many articles and had so much different advice regarding the age to desex my dog, including on this forum.

He is a 6 mth old male samoyed and some say not until he is 18mths-2 yrs due to the bone growth and development and risk of bone issues if done too soon, others have said he can be done anytime and wont cause issues, unsure what too believe? He is satrting to lift his leg and pee along the fence line and becomming more and more ignorant in training, which he has attended since 10 weeks. He humps the carpets and goes wild on the lead on walks now, trying to get to the yard dogs which he previously ignored.

Whats your opinion on the best age?

thanks

also recently read an article which says 84% of fataal dog bites were from desexed dogs!! so I am assuming desexing is far safer in a family dog which we will not breed from, expecially when there are 3 outside un dexed yard dogs around nearby..

Also

all the breeders for the next dog we are looking at for the end of next year, dessex before you buy them, as tiny puppies and none will sell undexed puppies, is this the norm for some breeds?

This Bolded part is true. Desexing before the bone growth plates fuse cause them to stay open for longer, can mean weakened bones (higher chance of osteoarthritis) and a slightly taller dog.

It's comes down to you weighing up the risks and if you are prepared to look after an entire dog until that age.

Instead of relying on blogs and general websites look at the scientific research using GOOGLE SCHOLAR and then think of your options.

Edited December 7, 2013 by LisaCC

[dotdashdot]

Agree with what Lisa has said and re. the second part, from memory you're getting a malamute as your second dog? Some breeders do desex before they are sent to their new owners but with such a large breed i'd be trying to keep it entire until it was 18 months old, for the reasons Lisa mentioned. The only time i'll desex a pup before 12 months of age in my future will be if I definitely under NO circumstances want it bred from (i.e a deaf Dalmatian pup).

[Diva]

I agree with delaying desexing in a large breed if you can manage it. That % figure for fatal attacks is a bit misleading - it is not cause and effect, there can be factors around management and owner demographics that lead to both outcomes.

The breeders that only sell desexed often have breeds that are the targets of commercially motivated breeding, such as the common breeds for crossing. In that circumstances early desexing might be the best protection they can give their puppies.

[aliwake]

I completely believe that waiting would be best if you can, but only if his behaviour is manageable. When you feel like you're not in control, then maybe that will be the right time.

I wanted to wait, but we just desexed our lab at 9.5months. His behaviour had clearly changed and we didn't feel we could let it continue (mainly barking). I wish we could have waited, but I don't have any regrets, yet. It was what worked for us.

[persephone]

Same here ... wait as long as you can .

he is now a teenager, and , as you have found, he is learning new behaviours!

I suggest you do a lot more training with him .. long on lead walks ..even start him on this program.. just so he learns he is NOT the boss ;)

I suggest, too , that you read the following thread . managing his behaviour at this age is very important - castrated or not - as it is now he is learning and setting down habits .

[LisaCC]

Completely agree with Perse, if you have perhaps been a bit lenient with him, start getting stricter and enforce NILIF now. Having a 7months old boy myself, I can tell when he tries to test his boundaries, I just stay calm and firm and don't let him get away with it. For example, he broke his recall a few weeks ago, so now he is back on a long line until I deem him trustworthy again (might be a while ).

And don't forget to keep making yourself the most exciting thing in the world! You may look a little crazy out in the street but when he starts to look towards the other dogs in the yard make yourself SUPER FUN! High pitched noises, running around (past the house with the dogs) with a favourite toy or food. Should help in training class too

[minimax]

I completely believe that waiting would be best if you can, but only if his behaviour is manageable. When you feel like you're not in control, then maybe that will be the right time.

I wanted to wait, but we just desexed our lab at 9.5months. His behaviour had clearly changed and we didn't feel we could let it continue (mainly barking). I wish we could have waited, but I don't have any regrets, yet. It was what worked for us.

Desexing is not a replacement for training and it won't cure bad behavior or habits such has barking. You're removing the dogs ability to reproduce, not it's vocal cords

[karly101]

I think as long as you can wait is good.. but it depends on the individual. My boy was 10 months and I did him then as his undescended testicle suddenly dropped and I also had to start him on skin medication and we decided best to get the boy bits out and have him on proper pain relief and not have to worry about it interacting with his skin meds.

Behaviour wise he was fine but I noticed other desexed males were REALLY targeting him on our walks and for me that's a worry that if it kept happening he would become reactive.

[fluff1234]

Yes a malamute, sadly EVERY local breeder desexes before being rehomed at 10 weeks! I have questioned it, but all say desex or no pup.

This is multiple breedeers not just a few

Agree with what Lisa has said and re. the second part, from memory you're getting a malamute as your second dog? Some breeders do desex before they are sent to their new owners but with such a large breed i'd be trying to keep it entire until it was 18 months old, for the reasons Lisa mentioned. The only time i'll desex a pup before 12 months of age in my future will be if I definitely under NO circumstances want it bred from (i.e a deaf Dalmatian pup).

Edited December 7, 2013 by fluff1234

[fluff1234]

Thanks all

After discussion with a friend and hubby, we are going to try to hold of until he is over 12mths..

He is only really becomming a REAL pain at training!!! probably due to the other dogs all around?

The peeing down the fence line, doesnt really worry me, as long as it doesnt happen inside.

The walking I can deal with for now, gives my arms a work out! but will try treats to heel him and may have to resort to his halti he has for training....

humping I can deal with as long as it isnt me or the kids

They had to pull me out of class again today for one on one. I was on catch up anyway, so we have missed 3 weeks, as my cat bit me and I had to have an operation, so we missed weeks 5,6 and 7 but did the final week (its the second lot of training at a different school, as the first was not strict enough for his stubborness and this one is MUCH better) They have decided today to put me back to week 3 with no extra charge and help me they are soo cooool :)

They say I need to be firm as he is at the age where it begins and being a male and entire and a samoyed is the ideal recipe for stubborness LOL, I have to drag him mid way through training as he just puts the breaks on and refuses to budge!

they did recommend to desex but not really for training purposes, they train LOTS of intact dogs, but more for the marking, ignoring and walks etc..

[persephone]

The walking I can deal with for now, gives my arms a work out! but will try treats to heel him and may have to resort to his halti he has for training....

humping I can deal with as long as it isnt me or the kids

Both humping and pulling/reacting are bad manners and you should not ignore .

There is HEAPS of info/techniques in that EXERCISING REACTIVE DOGS thread I linked to previously ... have a good read :)

[fluff1234]

Thanks will do, will look at all the links tomorrow xxx

thanks everyone so much :D xxx

The walking I can deal with for now, gives my arms a work out! but will try treats to heel him and may have to resort to his halti he has for training....

humping I can deal with as long as it isnt me or the kids

Both humping and pulling/reacting are bad manners and you should not ignore .

There is HEAPS of info/techniques in that EXERCISING REACTIVE DOGS thread I linked to previously ... have a good read :)

[DogNerd]

Before going to obedience we used to take Barney for a short walk just to take the edge off him lol

[Bjelkier]

Sounds like a pretty typical 6 month old male samoyed to be honest :laugh:

Got to love that teenage phase.

Glad you're holding off on desexing, I recommend all my puppy people wait until the dogs are at least over 12 months. Marking, ignoring and behaviour on walks etc has nothing to do with having the dog desexed. All my entire males are total angels, they don't mark, they don't roam, they don't bark or ignore me at all, in fact they're better then my bitches. In fact the de sexed male I have is one of the worst ;)

All of the problems you're having with him are training related. My first Sammy was a PITA when we went to training, he wouldn't stop barking until I'd taken him on a long walk before hand and done a few simple tricks to get him in the right frame of mind. He ended up placing first in our schools mock trial and if he hadn't died would when easily taken his CD title.

Stick it out, be firm and you'll get there :)

[fluff1234]

Thanks, i am in contact with his siblings and both his brothers have been desexed this week!

We will be def waiting now.

The trainers are giving us extra training and some one on one to help as he is a very stubborn one, will try a walk beforehand but the training school is over a hr away and starts at 7.30 am, so we leave at 6.15 and thats a rush enough!

I am going to take more high value treats too and just get mushy pockets LOL

He has always had selective hearing!

Its funny but NOT funny in trainig, he decides right thats it I already done it and I am NOT doing it again and just puts the breaks on, you just cannot budge him! It would be so amusing if it was somebody else it was happening too :laugh:

He is actually MUCH better behaved at home than training and will sit, lie down, wait for food, no longer barks when I am preparing meals, we are working on jumping up and its going 50-50 at the moment but improving. Grooming is better and he listens when i tell him off as he likes to get annoyed and try to bite me in grooming, but this is hardly ever now and will stop immediately when I tell him firmly. Recall is hit and miss depending if the neighbours dogs are out in the garden!

But training, gee I hate going at the moment.....

Although I did look around and he wasnt the only one not listening and not prforming he just liked to make a bigger show of not doing it, typical sammie :D

Sounds like a pretty typical 6 month old male samoyed to be honest :laugh:

Got to love that teenage phase.

Glad you're holding off on desexing, I recommend all my puppy people wait until the dogs are at least over 12 months. Marking, ignoring and behaviour on walks etc has nothing to do with having the dog desexed. All my entire males are total angels, they don't mark, they don't roam, they don't bark or ignore me at all, in fact they're better then my bitches. In fact the de sexed male I have is one of the worst ;)

All of the problems you're having with him are training related. My first Sammy was a PITA when we went to training, he wouldn't stop barking until I'd taken him on a long walk before hand and done a few simple tricks to get him in the right frame of mind. He ended up placing first in our schools mock trial and if he hadn't died would when easily taken his CD title.

Stick it out, be firm and you'll get there :)

Edited December 8, 2013 by fluff1234

[fluff1234]

I am also wondering if its just too hot and that could be the reasons for the playing up too? it is boiling at dog training here in Brisbane, even at 7.30 am and he is panting A LOT. I probably wouldnt want to do the same thing 30 times either in that heat with his coat!

hence why the better behaviour at home? of course he plays up at home too, he is a 6 mth old boy, but nothing like at training!!!

I know the marking outside can be normal for his age, his brothers had just started it too this very week.

Will have to work on this ignoring and walking on lead though :)

Edited December 8, 2013 by fluff1234

[persephone]

I probably wouldnt want to do the same thing 30 times either in that heat with his coat!

Is this really what happens > the same thing over & over?

Training, I've always been told is better in short bursts, often ...

[persephone]

you might also like to read THIS THREAD! :)

here are some important bits ;)

· "He acts JUST FINE at home. I don't know WHY he gets so crazy here at dog school."

This is why. When you do your training sessions at home, you chase the kids outside, turn off the radio and TV (because it distracts you), go to a quiet area and just train. Then, when the dog encounters all the external stimulation at dog school, he can't handle it because he wasn't TRAINED with it. In order to have a TRAINED dog, he must be taught to behave correctly in ANY situation he will encounter: crowds, groups of dogs, vet clinic, groomer, front of your house, down the street, in your backyard, at the park during a ball game, when it is sunny, rainy, snowing, blowing, cold, hot, with birds, or cats around - ANY situation or place you can think of.

· You meet up with a friend on your walk with your dog, and you stop to chat for a while.

Your dog is impatient, and starts to pace and prance. You are busy talking, but want him to sit quietly at your side. Telling him firmly to SIT, you go back to your conversation and don't realize he never sat. Your dog has just learned that he can ignore your commands. Seeing later that he didn't SIT, you tell him again. Again he ignores your command. Finally, you break away from your conversation and angrily command him to SIT. Well, he has learned he can ignore your commands UNLESS you have a hissy and get mad!

[fluff1234]

Can i just check

Is growling/snapping which he has just done twice in 2 days too hubbywhen he left him inside to collect the poo and when he come in he snapped, growled and stormed out, like he was mad he put him inside or this morning to our eldest when he stroked his head when he was lay down, is it hormonal? He is NOT normally like that at all, he does grumble and moan but doesnt snap or growl????