BlackJaq Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 (edited) So my Oh's puppy Tiger, who has previously featured in this thread: http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/251865-hermaphrodite/page__p__6295634__hl__hermaphrodite__fromsearch__1#entry6295634 ), has now unfortunately got a broken leg, courtesy of me It was only her second outing in town, when I unclipped her collar from the back of the ute and she unfortunately forced her way out of my arm and jumped off the side. She went in for x-rays and the first x-ray seemed good, with a lump of what appeared to be soft tissue on the inside of her upper arm, just below the elbow (hope that makes sense). She was very lame and I'd suspected a fracture but presumably the equipment at the vet's might be a little (ok very) outdated and there was no fracture visible. Two weeks later the lump was very much reduced in size and the lameness was only occasional and she went in for follow up x-rays. Unfortunately the change was dramatic and there is now clearly a fracture visible. After the first x-ray, we didn't splint the leg and only gave pain killers , assuming it was only a minor injury, though we did rest the dog as much as possible without crate containment. It now appears on the x-ray that there is a piece of bone that has died of and after consulting with the Wagga vet hospital, it is now clear that surgery is the only option. While waiting for their opinion we have had a splint on the dog and continued to rest her. Unfortunately I have no experience with injuries like this and during the last appointment (for the second set of x-rays) the vet also noticed a funny heartbeat (she called it a "galloping" heart beat I think, where the beat is irregular and close together for a few beats). Has anybody else got any experience with this kind of surgery? Or GA with a dog with an iffy heart beat? Wagga has quoted around $2500 for the surgery, performed by their specialists. My vet is going to chat to them to see what exactly they would do and how they would do it, to see if we might be able to attempt surgery at their clinic here instead, hopefully making it a bit cheaper. Alternatively we could amputate the whole leg. Does anybody have experience with large dogs as tripods? The puppy is thought to be around 9-10 months old now and she weighs around 25 kg.. I am not sure how large she might get but I am concerned at the consequences of amputation for the rest of her legs.. Having some other issues makes me concerned that she might be likely to have trouble with her hips or remaining elbow later-on (although obviously I don't know for certain, being a pound dog we have no idea of parents, previous history etc). The fracture itself is pretty strange, it seems the bone broke cleanly cross ways, not along the length. Not sure where the dead piece of bone came from? The vet in Wagga said he'd only ever seen a similar injury (with the necropsied bone) in a punctured fracture before, but there was no opening in the skin at all, just a lump on the inside of her leg.,, The possibility that a previous injury or fault may have exacerbated the problem has been mentioned.... At this point I am looking at a $700 minimum, that would be the amputation, which I am not keen on. My vet thinks surgery here might add up to at least $1000 and longterm antibiotics will be necessary in either case. What are the chances of surgery on the bone getting all the bad tissue? I definitely can't afford to do the bone surgery and then the amputation on top of that, so I kind of need to choose one or the other. The $2500 are pretty much out of my reach, so surgery here looks like the only viable option either way.... I would love any input and experiences that anybody else may have.. Edited December 5, 2013 by BlackJaq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 (edited) That is a bit of bad luck! Not sure what you should decide, that is tough. Diesel broke his right hind leg when he was 6 months old - zooming around the yard with Zoe and they collided with each other. It was a spiral fracture and apparently quite nasty as the vet asked me if he had been hit by a car - nope, it was a 13kg Kelpie that he hit! We went to the specialist and he ended up with an external fixator and screws etc - was about $5000, and 9 1/2 years ago now - he turns 10 next month! He hasn't had any further complications with it. The movement in that leg is a bit looser than the other leg, you would only notice it if you are looking for it or are good with structure/movement stuff. He still gets around fine even now that he is getting older. Edited December 5, 2013 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentchild Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 (edited) Probably not helpful, but my Rottie girl also broke her leg as a pup. She went straight in for emergency surgery and they had to put a pin in the leg (no amputation). She healed fine, the leg never really grew out quite as well and long as the rest so she had one quite stiff straight leg but she coped ok. She could still walk, run, jump etc but she would have mild arthritis for life in the broken leg. I would say the chance of developing arthritis on a broken leg as high, even if it has undergone surgery. Later on in life she did her cruiciate on her other leg, and then even later on one of her other legs got cancer so she more or less never really had full function of all four legs in great working order. It can be a bit hard for large breed dogs, the hardest for her was the cancer as she barely put weight on the leg so she was about 50-60% tripod for the duration of it. You just need to keep them really lean and reasonably fit as extra weight will of course put burden on the remaining joints. She could still go for walks and runs but nowhere near as much as what a fit, healthy dog would normally do. You have to be careful not to damage the remaining legs to minimize the risk of further injury, like cruciate problems or anything. I would recommend lots of water therapy for healing as well - swimming, underwater treadmill, things like that. Edit to say after she was cremated we were able to recover the metal pin that was in her broken leg.... it was an amazing memento of what had been a rough start to her life. Sorry that wasn't much help. I hope your pup recovers ok. It is such an awful thing to experience. Edited December 5, 2013 by silentchild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Personally id avoid amputation if of a pup if the leg is salvagable but that's just me. My 6 month old pom was dropped on Christmas Day last year, broke both her front legs and required specialist surgery to pin and plate as her bones were so small casting wouldn't be enough. Cost over $7000 but I had pet insurance so got about $5500 back. After the surgery the specialist wanted her back on her feet immediately as apparently this helps heal them so I was extremely thankful we had no crate rest period. A year on and you wouldn't even know she had snapped her legs clean and has no disability in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted December 5, 2013 Author Share Posted December 5, 2013 Thank You Kavic and Silentchild. I am kind of scrambling around atm, trying to see how much money I can come up with and also wrestling the urge to call my vet to ask her some more questions right away.. I doubt she would have had time to talk to Wagga again, but I am not good at waiting What was the recovery like for your dogs? And how did you do it? I am guessing we will probably want/need a crate because even the most obliging dog probably won't just stay on her dog bed for what must feel like an eternity to them... We are also having some trouble with toileting, because the puppy has been sleeping outside so far, with inside time when we are home... She kind of announces when she needs to go but you only really notice if you are in the same room.... She pretty much gets restless and starts looking at you.. Sometimes she whines but only very low and if nobody attends right away she seems to just go (not being able to hold pee for long might be related to a weak sphincter muscle due to the underdeveloped penis poking out) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted December 5, 2013 Author Share Posted December 5, 2013 Wow what a great result Donatella! I agree and am extremely reluctant to go with the amputation, but repeated surgeries just won't be do-able for us (and pet insurance won't cover pre-existing conditions ) I guess your girl was lucky being such a tiny dog probably helped a lot with the healing, too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Can you not claim the accident part? I know mine didn't ask any questions as I claimed for accident. I feel for you it's a horrible time I never cried so much with worry at the time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted December 5, 2013 Author Share Posted December 5, 2013 (edited) Sorry I mean we don't have pet insurance so I don't think they would cover this if we went and got cover now Edited December 5, 2013 by BlackJaq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 I used a crate to keep Diesel quiet. It is difficult to keep a puppy quiet! A very stressful time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trifecta Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 I have had a 5mo Belgian pup with a fractured scapula & damage to the radial nerve. She was never quite level at the trot but lived life at 100mph until arthritis became too bad at at the age of 15! Also had a 15yo who was unfortunately run over by the farrier (not his fault, just an accident); she had a dislocated hip & fractured tibia which was pinned. She went onto live until 17 when again her arthritis was just too painful. I know these two injuries are different cases to your pup, but I wanted to point out that on both occasions I did not seek specialist help. My vet at the time performed the surgery in both cases. He proved to be an excellent surgeon..... so don't underestimate your local practice if they are confident they can handle it :) Tiger may surprise you how well she handles recovery, particularly if she is getting lots of company & inside time! Afterall, you say she has been resting well although not contained after the initial diagnosis. As for the galloping heart, I cannot advise, but suggest you consult with your vet for guidance. Good luck, Tiger, whatever outcome you choose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Do you know which vet in Wagga they are talking to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Poor baby .... but this is the hermaphrodite pup who may need surgery on genitals later ? Now a possible heart problem..and a weird fracture with necrotised bone ... which MAY have come from an earlier injury .. before you got her ..or may have chipped off ... Are there any other tests which can be done cheapish to check heart/kidneys/bone density .... ? My concern is that this poor girl may have been at the end of the line when good genes were being handed out , and may have not received the ones neccessary for strength & good function... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaCC Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 (edited) My friends puppy broke it's hind leg in Wagga this year when only 4? months old, she is a large husky x and has now recovered quite well at just under a year old, the only thing you can tell is that when she lays down she sticks it out straight like she still has a cast on it, she can bend it fine though. The surgery was done at Wagga Vet Hospital but by one of their normal vets not their specialists. Edited December 5, 2013 by LisaCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted December 5, 2013 Author Share Posted December 5, 2013 Thank You everyone! I'm pretty sure my vet said she spoke with the uni in Wagga, who apparently have specialists? I would have to clarify, I did not think to worry about it when talking about this previously as I was pretty much hearing the doom's days bells ringing.. And yes, this is the hermaphrodite puppy, who may potentially need surgery on that in the future.. I am also thinking along the lines of "what's next" seeing as she seems to have got the crap end of the stick in several areas.... I am honestly pretty concerned that I will end up spending a mountain of money on her, only to have another issue come along, and another.. Until we can't help her anymore... In which case I will have spent a lot of money and puppy will still have terrible quality of life or worst case scenario die under GA :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Thank You everyone! I'm pretty sure my vet said she spoke with the uni in Wagga, who apparently have specialists? I would have to clarify, I did not think to worry about it when talking about this previously as I was pretty much hearing the doom's days bells ringing.. And yes, this is the hermaphrodite puppy, who may potentially need surgery on that in the future.. I am also thinking along the lines of "what's next" seeing as she seems to have got the crap end of the stick in several areas.... I am honestly pretty concerned that I will end up spending a mountain of money on her, only to have another issue come along, and another.. Until we can't help her anymore... In which case I will have spent a lot of money and puppy will still have terrible quality of life or worst case scenario die under GA :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*kirty* Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 My cat has a galloping heart beat and his is due to cardiomyopathy. I would be getting her heart checked before she has surgery - if she has a serious heart defect, your decision might be made for you. Sorry you are going through this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaCC Posted December 5, 2013 Share Posted December 5, 2013 Thank You everyone! I'm pretty sure my vet said she spoke with the uni in Wagga, who apparently have specialists? I would have to clarify, I did not think to worry about it when talking about this previously as I was pretty much hearing the doom's days bells ringing.. And yes, this is the hermaphrodite puppy, who may potentially need surgery on that in the future.. I am also thinking along the lines of "what's next" seeing as she seems to have got the crap end of the stick in several areas.... I am honestly pretty concerned that I will end up spending a mountain of money on her, only to have another issue come along, and another.. Until we can't help her anymore... In which case I will have spent a lot of money and puppy will still have terrible quality of life or worst case scenario die under GA :( Wagga Vet Hospital is in conjunction with CSU, the building itself is split into two parts, the normal surgery on the right, the specialist CSU teaching hospital on the left. They have specialists in there, one great thing about it being a teaching hospital is when you go for a consult with a specialist, they say everything they are thinking out loud and are very very thorough as they normally have 1 or 2 students in there taking notes and trying to answer questions. They were very good when I took a dog in for a neuro consult earlier in the year. They were also very aware of money constraints and provided a few options. If the price they quoted you was for a specialist to do the surgery, it should be cheaper with a normal vet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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