Qld Police K9 Puts Handler In Hospital

[persephone]

We try to praise him for doing as we ask and he is like yeh yeh get outta my way and let me work sheep. He has been run over a few times by rams and whilst backing off a little for self preservation he still kept doing his job. He's got guts and lives for sheep work. If you asked him what he wanted it would be a definitly let me work sheep, even if I occassionally get ouchies!

They need to be like that (& more) when mustering/yarding feral goats too! sometimes they are told to bite & hang on to a foot or nose , otherwise the goats don't believe what they're being told !

I don't think he would do that, he has never even nipped a sheep well not that has ever caused a mark or pulled wool. Who knows though, we have one goat named Yoghurt and she isn't being told by anyone!

sounds as if he is in heaven :)

[Nic.B]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-11-21/police-dog-bites-handler-during-beach-scuffle/5107264

Here is a good one after a recent thread where people were discussing the safety of protection trained dogs, what type of character in the dog is required for the job and how they should behave. In this instance the dog re-directed off the offender and onto the handler in an apprehension fight These people training working GSD's and Malinois who are essentially pets in personal protection thinking it's cleaver and safe and bragging about their ability to do so, need to take a reality check of what there are creating

That is the most ridiculous post/opinion I have ever encountered (and I have seen a few).

How on earth have you surmised that the dog redirected to his handler from that footage?

[Nic.B]

Santos plenty of police dogs live with their handler's families and their kids. They know they are not working and don't attack the kids at random.

Yes, no different from Guide Dogs who are happy, well adjusted dogs who get up to all sorts of mischeif (normal dog stuff) when not in harness. They dig, bark, chew, hump and do what dogs "do".

Put their harness on and they shift immediately in 'work'. Different dog altogether.

[Nic.B]

The jet ski connects with the offender at the same time or just prior to the dog moving in. ( the dog swam through surf with his very own motor)

I think this dog is incredible. Helicopeters, spot lights, surf, jet ski, dark, god knows what the verbal content involved, a'tosser' out there threatening this dogs handler and beforehand the public.

I bet this gorgeous dog was soon after legs in the air just chilling out before his next "job".

How anyone can insinuate that this dog did not behave to the very best of his ( and his handlers) ability under very volitile circumstances is beyond me!

ETA Better ban jet skis as well!

Edited November 23, 2013 by Nic.B

[dogmatic]

Dogmatic, 104 posts and not one has been positive.

mixeduppup, Having a bit of a scratch and a sniff are we?

Edited November 24, 2013 by Troy

[Rosetta]

Do people really have the inclination to trawl through hundreds of other people's posts and proclaim them negative, lies or just plain nuts :laugh:

Back to the topic though I agree with Pepe - you would have to wonder how effective the dog would potentially be in such a situation. He did well under the circumstances IMO.

[bertie]

Some of us are bored/housebound, Rosetta :laugh:

Thought you were staying on topic now, dogmatic. Wow, 7000 posts is a lot to read through & prove completely wrong overnight. Speed & dedication, look out MUP :laugh:

Puppy licence is the allowance given by some older dogs to puppies, so that the puppies are treated gentler for behaviour that might otherwise get them into serious trouble. Some dogs give this licence to children as well. Just like some adults give this licence to children as well.

*waits for puppy licence to be turned against PP dogs*

[pepe001]

The jet ski connects with the offender at the same time or just prior to the dog moving in. ( the dog swam through surf with his very own motor)

I think this dog is incredible. Helicopeters, spot lights, surf, jet ski, dark, god knows what the verbal content involved, a'tosser' out there threatening this dogs handler and beforehand the public.

I bet this gorgeous dog was soon after legs in the air just chilling out before his next "job".

How anyone can insinuate that this dog did not behave to the very best of his ( and his handlers) ability under very volitile circumstances is beyond me!

ETA Better ban jet skis as well!

I agree. The dog did very well and did it while treading water some of the time. I just don't think it should have been there for that arrest. There was enough human cops flailing around in the water and to add a dog to the mix just made it so much more dangerous for everyone. He had no idea who was supposed to be the aggressor and who was supposed to be the one arresting the aggressor. They were all fighting in a big pile. All were aggressors in his eyes. And he did his job trying to break up a fight as he has been taught. In that situation I bet he didn't even know which one was his handler - until they came out of the water and he allowed his handler to pull him out of the mess. I don't think anyone here thinks the dog is a bad police dog - he was just a weapon deployed that should have remained uncocked for that situation. I would also put money on some of the injuries sustained by the police officers to be also from friendly fire from their buddies. Very difficult to see anything with water and spray and lights in your face. Was that also misdirected aggression or just missing the target and getting a buddy instead? Maybe a bit of both - no-one knows.

If the situation had been a guy in the water, a handler and a dog (with the lights so we could see the action) and the dog run in front of the handler to stop the guy. And when the dog does his job, the guy gets arrested by the handler. But from the footage it was much more exciting than that. I just watched it again - I assume the cop was the one approaching from the left with a helmet on?? and the crim was the one with some sort of material in his hands.

As for the dog if he has had the right training and right blood lines, I agree, he would have gone to sleep in his crate soon after and forgotten about it.

This leads to another question - I have seen many PP dogs get trained, have participated as well, and watch countless videos. How much police training goes into this type of situation (ie a pile of fighting bodies - some cops and some crims)? I have never seen a handler go infront of his dog punching a crim in the mug repeatively before the dog arrives on the scene. I don't imagine it is ever done. This is as opposed to having a dog stop a man with the handler behind the dog, generally egging it on. I will find out and report back.

I hold nothing against the cops either - I just think the handler just made the wrong decision about whether to include his dog in the arrest.

Edited November 23, 2013 by pepe001

[Nic.B]

Do people really have the inclination to trawl through hundreds of other people's posts and proclaim them negative, lies or just plain nuts :laugh:

Back to the topic though I agree with Pepe - you would have to wonder how effective the dog would potentially be in such a situation. He did well under the circumstances IMO.

He was working Rosetta. Have you observed a dog 'in work"? They dont think of anything else. It does not even cross their minds, it is what they do, what they love and they are geared for. They do it well.

[Nic.B]

The jet ski connects with the offender at the same time or just prior to the dog moving in. ( the dog swam through surf with his very own motor)

I think this dog is incredible. Helicopeters, spot lights, surf, jet ski, dark, god knows what the verbal content involved, a'tosser' out there threatening this dogs handler and beforehand the public.

I bet this gorgeous dog was soon after legs in the air just chilling out before his next "job".

How anyone can insinuate that this dog did not behave to the very best of his ( and his handlers) ability under very volitile circumstances is beyond me!

ETA Better ban jet skis as well!

I agree. The dog did very well and did it while treading water some of the time. I just don't think it should have been there for that arrest. There was enough human cops flailing around in the water and to add a dog to the mix just made it so much more dangerous for everyone. He had no idea who was supposed to be the aggressor and who was supposed to be the one arresting the aggressor. They were all fighting in a big pile. All were aggressors in his eyes. And he did his job trying to break up a fight as he has been taught. In that situation I bet he didn't even know which one was his handler - until they came out of the water and he allowed his handler to pull him out of the mess. I don't think anyone here thinks the dog is a bad police dog - he was just a weapon deployed that should have remained uncocked for that situation. I would also put money on some of the injuries sustained by the police officers to be also from friendly fire from their buddies. Very difficult to see anythng with water and spray and lights in your face. Was that also misdirected aggression or just missing the target and getting a buddy instead?

If the situation had been a guy in the water, a handler and a dog (with the lights so we could see the action) and the dog run in front of the handler to stop the guy. And when the dog does his job, the guy gets arrested by the handler. But from the footage it was much more exciting than that.

If he has had the right training and right blood lines, I agree, he would have gone to sleep in his crate soon after and forgotten about it.

This leads to another question - I have seen many PP dogs get trained, have participated as well, and watch countless videos. How much police training goes into this type of situation (ie a pile of fighting bodies - some cops and some crims)? I don't imagine it is ever done. This is as opposed to having a dog stop a man with the handler behind the dog, generally egging it on.

You seem to agree and then disgree. I think you are full of it. How would you have done better? Lights on!! Lights off! Water! No water! What if? What if?

The dog responded just the way he should have against a dickhead who took the time to give the finger to police on more than one occasion, threatened his handler and prior the public.

[OSoSwift]

The jet ski connects with the offender at the same time or just prior to the dog moving in. ( the dog swam through surf with his very own motor)

I think this dog is incredible. Helicopeters, spot lights, surf, jet ski, dark, god knows what the verbal content involved, a'tosser' out there threatening this dogs handler and beforehand the public.

I bet this gorgeous dog was soon after legs in the air just chilling out before his next "job".

How anyone can insinuate that this dog did not behave to the very best of his ( and his handlers) ability under very volitile circumstances is beyond me!

ETA Better ban jet skis as well!

I agree. The dog did very well and did it while treading water some of the time. I just don't think it should have been there for that arrest. There was enough human cops flailing around in the water and to add a dog to the mix just made it so much more dangerous for everyone. He had no idea who was supposed to be the aggressor and who was supposed to be the one arresting the aggressor. They were all fighting in a big pile. All were aggressors in his eyes. And he did his job trying to break up a fight as he has been taught. In that situation I bet he didn't even know which one was his handler - until they came out of the water and he allowed his handler to pull him out of the mess. I don't think anyone here thinks the dog is a bad police dog - he was just a weapon deployed that should have remained uncocked for that situation. I would also put money on some of the injuries sustained by the police officers to be also from friendly fire from their buddies. Very difficult to see anythng with water and spray and lights in your face. Was that also misdirected aggression or just missing the target and getting a buddy instead?

If the situation had been a guy in the water, a handler and a dog (with the lights so we could see the action) and the dog run in front of the handler to stop the guy. And when the dog does his job, the guy gets arrested by the handler. But from the footage it was much more exciting than that.

If he has had the right training and right blood lines, I agree, he would have gone to sleep in his crate soon after and forgotten about it.

This leads to another question - I have seen many PP dogs get trained, have participated as well, and watch countless videos. How much police training goes into this type of situation (ie a pile of fighting bodies - some cops and some crims)? I don't imagine it is ever done. This is as opposed to having a dog stop a man with the handler behind the dog, generally egging it on.

You seem to agree and then disgree. I think you are full of it. How would you have done better? Lights on!! Lights off! Water! No water! What if? What if?

The dog responded just the way he should have against a dickhead who took the time to give the finger to police on more than one occasion, threatened his handler and prior the public.

VEry well put and in a lot less words than I did :)

Oh and the title is a misnomer, yes the handler went to the hospital to have his injuries treated, from the dickhead and from the dog bite. To say the dog put him in hosptial is stretching the truth extensively

[pepe001]

The police officers couldn't change what the guy did - he chose the waves and night-time. So the cops (or myself if I was a cop) couldn't change that. The lights - well for the camera crew it was a bonus as it made for great news footage. Not sure if it benefited the cops or not - probably did. And he couldn't slip away iunder cover of darkness so I think that was the right decision. Use of jetski - also in my opinion a good decision. Lets the cops arrive at the guy still fresh so they could arrest him more easily.

All I said was the dog shouldn't have been used in that situation. The handler (or his superiors if they made the decision) should have put the dog in the car when they decided to make a run through the waves to arrest the guy. It wasn't a snap decision as you (or someone else here) said they were waiting for hours for him to come out so it wasn't life or death when both the decision maker has to take a risk to save lives.

I entirely agree with you that the dog seemed in the footage to perform as expected. And the outome is as expected - arrested guy and injured people due to a dog being used in an inappropriate situation. The handler met the guy first and dog arrived after the fight was on so he had no idea who he should have been focusing on. He plowed into the fight and did what he was trained to do.

I am leaving this thread now as I seem to be upsetting someone who I agree with - weird. But I guess that is what forum posts do sometimes.

[Nic.B]

The police officers couldn't change what the guy did - he chose the waves and night-time. So the cops (or myself if I was a cop) couldn't change that. The lights - well for the camera crew it was a bonus as it made for great news footage. Not sure if it benefited the cops or not - probably did. And he couldn't slip away iunder cover of darkness so I think that was the right decision. Use of jetski - also in my opinion a good decision. Lets the cops arrive at the guy still fresh so they could arrest him more easily.

All I said was the dog shouldn't have been used in that situation. The handler (or his superiors if they made the decision) should have put the dog in the car when they decided to make a run through the waves to arrest the guy. It wasn't a snap decision as you (or someone else here) said they were waiting for hours for him to come out so it wasn't life or death when both the decision maker has to take a risk to save lives.

I entirely agree with you that the dog seemed in the footage to perform as expected. And the outome is as expected - arrested guy and injured people due to a dog being used in an inappropriate situation. The handler met the guy first and dog arrived after the fight was on so he had no idea who he should have been focusing on. He plowed into the fight and did what he was trained to do.

I am leaving this thread now as I seem to be upsetting someone who I agree with - weird. But I guess that is what forum posts do sometimes.

Used in what situation? The situation he does best at?

[Amax-1]

Hi everyone and if I may, I would like to add to this discussion having spent the last 30 years of my life involved in a passion for working GSD's particularly.

Over the past 30 years I will be honest to say that the text book perfect dog still alludes me and I haven't found him/her as yet although I am still passionate trying to breed, find acquire that dog who is perfectly adjusted in all facets of environment by nature, a child's playmate, family pet to a fierce protector of only genuine threat all achieved by pure instinct with only training to fine tune that.

I have had very good working dogs who are absolutely adorable with the family, I have had dogs of equal working ability who love to play with children, any children they have shown a gentle and friendly character towards. On the other hand, I have also had dogs of again equal working ability, who are one handler dogs that didn't overly like the wife no matter how kind she was or how dominant she was there was an element of distrust in those particular dogs. I had one dog particularly who saw kids on skateboards as the ultimate prey catch to the point it scares me to envisage what this dog may have done in face of an innocent skateboarder encountered off leash and on the flip side, I have also had dogs of near perfect character with bad hips, one with elbow dysplasia and one who could never jump well or work on slippery or wet floors and one who was petrified of heavy traffic crossing a main road, the same dog in a dark alley encountering an attacker was a prize fighter, so what I have found is each and every dog has it's strengths and weaknesses in a working role, they are all individuals we take the good with the bad.

For a dog to be trained in protection not meaning a dog who will bark on command and show aggression towards a threat in a deterrent manner, but a dog who will bring down an offender as in this police dog story need to have particular traits to be successfully trainable in that job, the job of K9 arrest. If the primary function of that dog is K9 arrest and if that dog is not so good as a family pet doesn't matter and the dog is handled off the job accordingly to it's character default. We can't say that all "police dogs" in general are environmentally stable at all times because they are police dogs, some are and some not so much, it depends on the dog's default character and the primary role that the dog shall be working under. Some arresting K9's can be adapted to tracking in search and rescue where others cannot be used in SAR as although they track extremely well, they track aggressively to win the prize and taking the edge off the aggression in the search through training, dulls their ability to arrest an offender and are completely the wrong character of dog for SAR type work or dual roles, again it depends on the individual dog's default character which can vary dramatically.

For simplicity of this discussion, there are two types of dogs that can be trained in protection which are either prey driven or defence driven by nature. Prey driven dogs providing they have a courageous enough character which not all prey driven dogs are blessed with, when trained properly make a safer and more reliable protector as a general rule of thumb. Defence driven dogs on the flip side tend to be more aggressive by nature, easier to initially train, but more of a liability when managed incorrectly, but either character types can be equally as effective in the actual role of protection, but again it depends on the individual dog primarily and the training secondary.

As a personal thought in regards to this topic, I couldn't see much sense in deploying the dog to make an arrest given the human resources at hand, helicopter, jet ski etc, the offender didn't really have an escape path to use the services of a dog IMHO.

[Nic.B]

The jet ski connects with the offender at the same time or just prior to the dog moving in. ( the dog swam through surf with his very own motor)

I think this dog is incredible. Helicopeters, spot lights, surf, jet ski, dark, god knows what the verbal content involved, a'tosser' out there threatening this dogs handler and beforehand the public.

I bet this gorgeous dog was soon after legs in the air just chilling out before his next "job".

How anyone can insinuate that this dog did not behave to the very best of his ( and his handlers) ability under very volitile circumstances is beyond me!

ETA Better ban jet skis as well!

I agree. The dog did very well and did it while treading water some of the time. I just don't think it should have been there for that arrest. There was enough human cops flailing around in the water and to add a dog to the mix just made it so much more dangerous for everyone. He had no idea who was supposed to be the aggressor and who was supposed to be the one arresting the aggressor. They were all fighting in a big pile. All were aggressors in his eyes. And he did his job trying to break up a fight as he has been taught. In that situation I bet he didn't even know which one was his handler - until they came out of the water and he allowed his handler to pull him out of the mess. I don't think anyone here thinks the dog is a bad police dog - he was just a weapon deployed that should have remained uncocked for that situation. I would also put money on some of the injuries sustained by the police officers to be also from friendly fire from their buddies. Very difficult to see anythng with water and spray and lights in your face. Was that also misdirected aggression or just missing the target and getting a buddy instead?

If the situation had been a guy in the water, a handler and a dog (with the lights so we could see the action) and the dog run in front of the handler to stop the guy. And when the dog does his job, the guy gets arrested by the handler. But from the footage it was much more exciting than that.

If he has had the right training and right blood lines, I agree, he would have gone to sleep in his crate soon after and forgotten about it.

This leads to another question - I have seen many PP dogs get trained, have participated as well, and watch countless videos. How much police training goes into this type of situation (ie a pile of fighting bodies - some cops and some crims)? I don't imagine it is ever done. This is as opposed to having a dog stop a man with the handler behind the dog, generally egging it on.

You seem to agree and then disgree. I think you are full of it. How would you have done better? Lights on!! Lights off! Water! No water! What if? What if?

The dog responded just the way he should have against a dickhead who took the time to give the finger to police on more than one occasion, threatened his handler and prior the public.

VEry well put and in a lot less words than I did :)

Oh and the title is a misnomer, yes the handler went to the hospital to have his injuries treated, from the dickhead and from the dog bite. To say the dog put him in hosptial is stretching the truth extensively

I agree OSO

That dog is brilliant, no question.

Media love to beat it up as well. Bla,bla, bla.

[Yonjuro]

Hi everyone and if I may, I would like to add to this discussion having spent the last 30 years of my life involved in a passion for working GSD's particularly.

Over the past 30 years I will be honest to say that the text book perfect dog still alludes me and I haven't found him/her as yet although I am still passionate trying to breed, find acquire that dog who is perfectly adjusted in all facets of environment by nature, a child's playmate, family pet to a fierce protector of only genuine threat all achieved by pure instinct with only training to fine tune that.

I have had very good working dogs who are absolutely adorable with the family, I have had dogs of equal working ability who love to play with children, any children they have shown a gentle and friendly character towards. On the other hand, I have also had dogs of again equal working ability, who are one handler dogs that didn't overly like the wife no matter how kind she was or how dominant she was there was an element of distrust in those particular dogs. I had one dog particularly who saw kids on skateboards as the ultimate prey catch to the point it scares me to envisage what this dog may have done in face of an innocent skateboarder encountered off leash and on the flip side, I have also had dogs of near perfect character with bad hips, one with elbow dysplasia and one who could never jump well or work on slippery or wet floors and one who was petrified of heavy traffic crossing a main road, the same dog in a dark alley encountering an attacker was a prize fighter, so what I have found is each and every dog has it's strengths and weaknesses in a working role, they are all individuals we take the good with the bad.

For a dog to be trained in protection not meaning a dog who will bark on command and show aggression towards a threat in a deterrent manner, but a dog who will bring down an offender as in this police dog story need to have particular traits to be successfully trainable in that job, the job of K9 arrest. If the primary function of that dog is K9 arrest and if that dog is not so good as a family pet doesn't matter and the dog is handled off the job accordingly to it's character default. We can't say that all "police dogs" in general are environmentally stable at all times because they are police dogs, some are and some not so much, it depends on the dog's default character and the primary role that the dog shall be working under. Some arresting K9's can be adapted to tracking in search and rescue where others cannot be used in SAR as although they track extremely well, they track aggressively to win the prize and taking the edge off the aggression in the search through training, dulls their ability to arrest an offender and are completely the wrong character of dog for SAR type work or dual roles, again it depends on the individual dog's default character which can vary dramatically.

For simplicity of this discussion, there are two types of dogs that can be trained in protection which are either prey driven or defence driven by nature. Prey driven dogs providing they have a courageous enough character which not all prey driven dogs are blessed with, when trained properly make a safer and more reliable protector as a general rule of thumb. Defence driven dogs on the flip side tend to be more aggressive by nature, easier to initially train, but more of a liability when managed incorrectly, but either character types can be equally as effective in the actual role of protection, but again it depends on the individual dog primarily and the training secondary.

As a personal thought in regards to this topic, I couldn't see much sense in deploying the dog to make an arrest given the human resources at hand, helicopter, jet ski etc, the offender didn't really have an escape path to use the services of a dog IMHO.

Great first post. Welcome to the forum and hope to hear more from you.

[BlackJaq]

Hi everyone and if I may, I would like to add to this discussion having spent the last 30 years of my life involved in a passion for working GSD's particularly.

Over the past 30 years I will be honest to say that the text book perfect dog still alludes me and I haven't found him/her as yet although I am still passionate trying to breed, find acquire that dog who is perfectly adjusted in all facets of environment by nature, a child's playmate, family pet to a fierce protector of only genuine threat all achieved by pure instinct with only training to fine tune that.

I have had very good working dogs who are absolutely adorable with the family, I have had dogs of equal working ability who love to play with children, any children they have shown a gentle and friendly character towards. On the other hand, I have also had dogs of again equal working ability, who are one handler dogs that didn't overly like the wife no matter how kind she was or how dominant she was there was an element of distrust in those particular dogs. I had one dog particularly who saw kids on skateboards as the ultimate prey catch to the point it scares me to envisage what this dog may have done in face of an innocent skateboarder encountered off leash and on the flip side, I have also had dogs of near perfect character with bad hips, one with elbow dysplasia and one who could never jump well or work on slippery or wet floors and one who was petrified of heavy traffic crossing a main road, the same dog in a dark alley encountering an attacker was a prize fighter, so what I have found is each and every dog has it's strengths and weaknesses in a working role, they are all individuals we take the good with the bad.

For a dog to be trained in protection not meaning a dog who will bark on command and show aggression towards a threat in a deterrent manner, but a dog who will bring down an offender as in this police dog story need to have particular traits to be successfully trainable in that job, the job of K9 arrest. If the primary function of that dog is K9 arrest and if that dog is not so good as a family pet doesn't matter and the dog is handled off the job accordingly to it's character default. We can't say that all "police dogs" in general are environmentally stable at all times because they are police dogs, some are and some not so much, it depends on the dog's default character and the primary role that the dog shall be working under. Some arresting K9's can be adapted to tracking in search and rescue where others cannot be used in SAR as although they track extremely well, they track aggressively to win the prize and taking the edge off the aggression in the search through training, dulls their ability to arrest an offender and are completely the wrong character of dog for SAR type work or dual roles, again it depends on the individual dog's default character which can vary dramatically.

For simplicity of this discussion, there are two types of dogs that can be trained in protection which are either prey driven or defence driven by nature. Prey driven dogs providing they have a courageous enough character which not all prey driven dogs are blessed with, when trained properly make a safer and more reliable protector as a general rule of thumb. Defence driven dogs on the flip side tend to be more aggressive by nature, easier to initially train, but more of a liability when managed incorrectly, but either character types can be equally as effective in the actual role of protection, but again it depends on the individual dog primarily and the training secondary.

As a personal thought in regards to this topic, I couldn't see much sense in deploying the dog to make an arrest given the human resources at hand, helicopter, jet ski etc, the offender didn't really have an escape path to use the services of a dog IMHO.

Great first post. Welcome to the forum and hope to hear more from you.

Agree, great to have somebody so knowledgeable contribute to the discussion!

[Amax-1]

Thanks for you kind words much appreciated. What actually bought me here to the forum is to research Westies (West Highland Terriers)as my wife adores them and has wanted one for her personal dog for many years an idea that I have rejected for no good reason other than my passion for working GSD's. She said to me the other night, that wanting a Westie doesn't mean she doesn't want GSD's, she just wants a breed she feels passionate about also and she can pick up and handle more easily and why can't we have both?. She's right so other than knowing Westies are white, well I assume they all white and they have a cute face, I am hoping to learn something about them from the knowledgeable people here is the forum which I am sure I will find.

I wasn't aware of too many working dog discussions occurring here and the agility threads I have read before, have too much precision for me and I don't understand the lingo of what the training is about, until I read the police dog thread I was a bit of an occasional lurker and thought perhaps I could speak on the subject with a contribution as the topic to many seemed interesting.

It's nice to be welcomed aboard, thank you :)

Edited November 23, 2013 by Amax-1

[Boronia]

Thanks for you kind words much appreciated. What actually bought me here to the forum is to research Westies (West Highland Terriers)as my wife adores them and has wanted one for her personal dog for many years an idea that I have rejected for no good reason other than my passion for working GSD's. She said to me the other night, that wanting a Westie doesn't mean she doesn't want GSD's, she just wants a breed she feels passionate about also and she can pick up and handle more easily and why can't we have both?. She's right so other than knowing Westies are white, well I assume they all white and they have a cute face, I am hoping to learn something about them from the knowledgeable people here is the forum which I am sure I will find.

I wasn't aware of too many working dog discussions occurring here and the agility threads I have read before, have too much precision for me and I don't understand the lingo of what the training is about, until I read the police dog thread I was a bit of an occasional lurker and thought perhaps I could speak on the subject with a contribution as the topic to many seemed interesting.

It's nice to be welcomed aboard, thank you :)

FYI Amax-1,

Westie Club Qld:

This year's Christmas BBQ Breakfast will be held on Saturday,

7 December 2013 at 9.00am.

John Goss Reserve, Maundrell Tce, Chermside West (near St Gerards Catholic Church)

$5.00 per person. Children under 10 are free. BYO drinks and chairs.

Come along and share a wonderful day with us. It is a great opportunity for Westie owners to meet and exchange Westie stories and information. It is a fun day with lots of games for you and your westies, raffles, prizes and Santa may pay us a visit too. All members and visitors are welcome!

You and your wife just better be there!

ps...leave your GSD's at home...they may be ganged up on by 30+ Westies :D

[Tralee]

It seems to me that dogs biting, in this type of situation, is mostly a reflex action.

And, once the bitting frenzy starts, the reflex action continues.

If you get in the middle of it, then you get bitten.

This is my observation, of course, and I've not trained dogs to apprehend.

But I have spent time trying to desensitize a few after they had been mistreated by neighbours.

Training, it appears to me, is arbitrary in the mix of conflict.

Dogs do not discern what is a stick, what is a miscreant's leg, or what is the handler's arm.

If the reflex is triggered by a stimulus near the dog's jaws, then the teeth clamp on it.

Its not a difficult concept.