Qld Police K9 Puts Handler In Hospital

[moosmum]

looked to me that the dog followed his handler in to protect him. He was a long way behind his buddy at the start.

Yes, and he was under extreme sensory confusion with moving lights, incredible noise and likely water in eyes and ears.Very easy to make a mistake I would think.

[moosmum]

Not sure what point is being made here, it certainly isn't the point that OP is attempting to make.

on the other hand, if i was deliberately putting myself in harm's way for the benefit of the community, i'd like to be able to look at my dog as a loaded gun, and i was taught to treat every gun as if it was loaded.

at the same time, i'd hope that any handler of such a weapon was very well trained and cool-headed. i don't know how much onus should be placed on a dog to discern by itself. some, i assume. i admit to knowing very little of pp dogs.

Enough discernment that you aren't going to be hit on the back of the head while your not looking 'cos you didn't give a command, and kids are given a "puppy license". At least here. Enough discernment that my dog trusts me to handle most things myself, and only acts when I can't/don't, and only while there is an active threat.Not just a bunch of people goofing around.

Using a gun comparison, yes you would hope the handler is well trained and cool headed.In that case, he doesn't carry his gun around half cocked.

[OSoSwift]

What I see is a belligerent dangerous offender they had tried to arrest for a period of time.

I also see a fearless dog wading in where man others would not have.

I do not think that this is a case of redirection from this dog. It would have been extremely difficult for that dog to know whos's limbs were whom's in that circumstance. I do not think they would have deployed a dog into this situation without a great deal of thought for his and the other officers safety. They would have known the risks, how often do we see cases of people bitten while trying to break up fights, the dog in the frenzie of it all does not know that it has bitten its owner or someone.

In this case you have a dog that is trained to bite people so the risk of a person OTHER than the offender being bitten is high. They would have taken that into consideration. And deemed the risk worth it.

The dog appears to come under control quickly once on the beach while remaining intensely focused on the idiot they had just arrested.

I also believe that police dogs are trained to deal with many circumstances that our dogs will never have to encounter (thankfully), yes they do go into dangerous situations and they do get injured at times. Some argue that this is unreasonable and a dog should never be placed in that circumstance. You know what, I don't believe it's fair to ask our police force to put people in that circumstance either, but they go in there and put their lives on the line. They value their relationship with their canine partner and they both look out for each other. I believe that our canine unit do an amazing job and keep us a lot safer. Whilst not ideal the dogs are well trained and are not put into any dangerous situation unless it is vitally necessary ( like human officers).

I have a huge amount of respect for our police force, human, canine and equine and am thankful they do what they do to make our world a safer place to live in. I would never accuse a dog handler of putting his dog in unnecessary risk as I do not believe they do or would.

I do not see this as an example of why having a pp trained dog is dangerous or why it cannot be trusted in a family environment. I do believe dogs that are not trained at least to some degree and are of guardian breeds, are more of a liability. Mine were not protection trained, they had a command to guard, one to speak and one to leave (as in leave that person do not bite them) I do believe this made them safer not more of a liability.

Edited November 22, 2013 by OSoSwift

[moosmum]

What I see is a belligerent dangerous offender they had tried to arrest for a period of time.

I also see a fearless dog wading in where man others would not have.

I do not think that this is a case of redirection from this dog. It would have been extremely difficult for that dog to know whos's limbs were whom's in that circumstance. I do not think they would have deployed a dog into this situation without a great deal of thought for his and the other officers safety. They would have known the risks, how often do we see cases of people bitten while trying to break up fights, the dog in the frenzie of it all does not know that it has bitten its owner or someone.

In this case you have a dog that is trained to bite people do the risk of a person OTHER than the offender being bitten is high. They would have taken that into consideration. And deemed the risk worth it.

The dog appears to come under control quickly once on the beach while remaining intensely focused on the idiot they had just arrested.

I also believe that police dogs are trained to deal with many circumstances is and our dogs will never have to encounter (thankfully) yes they do go into dangerous situations and they do get injured at times. Some argue that this is unreasonable and a dog should never be placed in that circumstance. You know what I don't believe it fair to ask our police force to put people in that circumstance either, but they go in there and put their lives on the line. They value their relationship with their canine partner and they both look out for each other. I believe that our canine unit do an amazing dogs and keep us a lot safer. Whilst not ideal the dogs are well trained and are not put into any dangerous situation unless it is vitally necessary ( like human officers).

I have a huge amount of respect for our police force, human, canine and equine and am thankful they do what they do to make our world a safer place to live in. I would never accuse a dog handler of putting his dog in unnecessary risk as I do not believe they do or would.

I do not see this as an example of why having a pp trained dog is dangerous or why it cannot be trusted in a family environment. I do believe dogs that are not trained at least to some degree and are of guardian breeds are more of a liability. Mine were not protection trained, they had a command to guard, one to speak and one to leave (as in leave that person do not bite them) I do believe this made them safer not more of a liability.

well put! :)

[temperamentfirst]

What I see is a belligerent dangerous offender they had tried to arrest for a period of time.

I also see a fearless dog wading in where man others would not have.

I do not think that this is a case of redirection from this dog. It would have been extremely difficult for that dog to know whos's limbs were whom's in that circumstance. I do not think they would have deployed a dog into this situation without a great deal of thought for his and the other officers safety. They would have known the risks, how often do we see cases of people bitten while trying to break up fights, the dog in the frenzie of it all does not know that it has bitten its owner or someone.

In this case you have a dog that is trained to bite people do the risk of a person OTHER than the offender being bitten is high. They would have taken that into consideration. And deemed the risk worth it.

The dog appears to come under control quickly once on the beach while remaining intensely focused on the idiot they had just arrested.

I also believe that police dogs are trained to deal with many circumstances is and our dogs will never have to encounter (thankfully) yes they do go into dangerous situations and they do get injured at times. Some argue that this is unreasonable and a dog should never be placed in that circumstance. You know what I don't believe it fair to ask our police force to put people in that circumstance either, but they go in there and put their lives on the line. They value their relationship with their canine partner and they both look out for each other. I believe that our canine unit do an amazing dogs and keep us a lot safer. Whilst not ideal the dogs are well trained and are not put into any dangerous situation unless it is vitally necessary ( like human officers).

I have a huge amount of respect for our police force, human, canine and equine and am thankful they do what they do to make our world a safer place to live in. I would never accuse a dog handler of putting his dog in unnecessary risk as I do not believe they do or would.

I do not see this as an example of why having a pp trained dog is dangerous or why it cannot be trusted in a family environment. I do believe dogs that are not trained at least to some degree and are of guardian breeds are more of a liability. Mine were not protection trained, they had a command to guard, one to speak and one to leave (as in leave that person do not bite them) I do believe this made them safer not more of a liability.

You expressed that so well - totally agree with you:-)

Edited November 22, 2013 by temperamentfirst

[OSoSwift]

Out of interest do people think sheep dogs should not work sheep?

[persephone]

Out of interest do people think sheep dogs should not work sheep?

?????

in what context?

[OSoSwift]

Well I am thinking if people believe that a fully trained and operational Police dog should not be put into situations that may cause it harm, do they think that dogs should not be working sheep. Anyone that works with sheep knows that rams and stroppy old ewes can be right arseholes if they decided to be.

If people think that poilce dogs should not do as they have been bred and trained for, then they would also think that a sheep dog should not work sheep. In both cases dogs may potentially be injured. I know what the dogs would say, just wondering on peoples views or perceptions of risk.

Edited November 22, 2013 by OSoSwift

[dogmatic]

Mine were not protection trained, they had a command to guard, one to speak and one to leave (as in leave that person do not bite them) I do believe this made them safer not more of a liability.

Sounds very good. How often did you need to command them not to bite people? And how often did you let them go ahead and bite people?

Edited November 22, 2013 by dogmatic

[persephone]

Aah - thought you may have been thinking of risk to owners .workers ;)

:) I have had nips/grabs from our working sheepdogs ... especially young ones who sometimes seem like kids on red cordial! We did have one - who , when younger was known far & wide ..as, at one time or another he had grabbed everyones' hands in the yards . He rarely did much damage .. except to our hearts , which used to stop suddenly when we felt the GRAB !

Dogs can and do get injured . We have had workers with busted ribs, bruises, cuts, lost teeth ......

[persephone]

Mine were not protection trained, they had a command to guard, one to speak and one to leave (as in leave that person do not bite them) I do believe this made them safer not more of a liability.

back in the day , ours were similar . The 'leave' command was a very useful one .. as the dog would still be wary & maybe hackling ..which would put the person concerned at a distinct disadvantage ..and on their best behaviour.

Must admit , I rather enjoyed the days when people knew that if they entered the yard without permission there would be immediate consequences.....it was accepted .

[OSoSwift]

Mine were not protection trained, they had a command to guard, one to speak and one to leave (as in leave that person do not bite them) I do believe this made them safer not more of a liability.

Sounds very good. How often did you need to command them not to bite people? And how often did you let them go ahead and bite people?

They were never commanded to bite anyone, they were given a command to guard which meant put your hackles up and growl. If off lead to run the perimeter of their area whilst having hackles up and voicing off. The leave it stopped two people being bitten - or I believed had they continued to do what they were, and the dog not told to leave them then they would have been bitten. Leave was taught in a general term, ie leave it - do not go near whatever it was they were interested in, snake, rabbit, sheep, person dog etc. The leave it stopped quite a few annoying dogs being bitten as even though they were in her face and she had gone to bite she listening and didn't. Still voiced her displeasure but enable me to get her back and the otehr dog not get bitten.

Generally I stayed out of circumstances that would have potentially required my dog to bite. With the WHippets I have got buckly's of them getting off the lounge.

Edited November 22, 2013 by OSoSwift

[dogmatic]

Mine were not protection trained, they had a command to guard, one to speak and one to leave (as in leave that person do not bite them) I do believe this made them safer not more of a liability.

Sounds very good. How often did you need to command them not to bite people? And how often did you let them go ahead and bite people?

They were never commanded to bite anyone, they were given a command to guard which meant put your hackles up and growl. If off lead to run the perimeter of their area whilst having hackles up and voicing off. The leave it stopped two people being bitten - or I believed had they continued to do what they were, and the dog not told to leave them then they would have been bitten. Leave was taught in a general term, ie leave it - do not go near whatever it was they were interested in, snake, rabbit, sheep, person dog etc. The leave it stopped quite a few annoying dogs being bitten as even though they were in her face and she had gone to bite she listening and didn't. Still voiced her displeasure but enable me to get her back and the otehr dog not get bitten.

Generally I stayed out of circumstances that would have potentially required my dog to bite. With the WHippets I have got buckly's of them getting off the lounge.

OK. I'm not so impressed now. You didn't say how often you've let them go ahead and bite people.

[bertie]

Well I am thinking if people believe that a fully trained and operational Police dog should not be put into situations that may cause it harm, do they think that dogs should not be working sheep. Anyone that works with sheep knows that rams and stroppy old ewes can be right arseholes if they decided to be.

If people think that poilce dogs should not do as they have been bred and trained for, then they would also think that a sheep dog should not work sheep. In both cases dogs may potentially be injured. I know what the dogs would say, just wondering on peoples views or perceptions of risk.

As a person, I find myself most content when I am doing a job that I am good at. If I was a dog full of beans & good at working sheep/people, I would be happiest doing that.

As a person, I take risks. I can choose whether my love for the activity at hand, outweighs the risk. The activity I choose to expend this on might not look smart to other people, but then their choices might not look smart to me.

There are people that abuse working dogs, for sure, or don't look out for signs the dog doesn't enjoy the activity. I think that behaviour should always be targeted.

But I think if I was most police/customs/bomb detection dogs & I could talk, I would say "Wtf, leave me alone, I love what I'm doing" to people opposed to me doing my job.

[persephone]

There are people that abuse working dogs, for sure, or don't look out for signs the dog doesn't enjoy the activity. I think that behaviour should always be targeted.

which is why we have :

dogs who are good at , and enjoy mustering

dogs who really are only at their best in the yards

dogs better at goats than sheep

dogs who are terrific in working away from human control

..and the ones who think they are doing a terrific job ..but are really only being given a day out ;)

they usually have an area in which they do best - so, that's what they will be given to do.....

[bertie]

There are people that abuse working dogs, for sure, or don't look out for signs the dog doesn't enjoy the activity. I think that behaviour should always be targeted.

which is why we have :

dogs who are good at , and enjoy mustering

dogs who really are only at their best in the yards

dogs better at goats than sheep

dogs who are terrific in working away from human control

..and the ones who think they are doing a terrific job ..but are really only being given a day out ;)

they usually have an area in which they do best - so, that's what they will be given to do.....

..that's what good handlers do, Perse.

Sadly not everyone is a good handler.

[OSoSwift]

Mine were not protection trained, they had a command to guard, one to speak and one to leave (as in leave that person do not bite them) I do believe this made them safer not more of a liability.

Sounds very good. How often did you need to command them not to bite people? And how often did you let them go ahead and bite people?

They were never commanded to bite anyone, they were given a command to guard which meant put your hackles up and growl. If off lead to run the perimeter of their area whilst having hackles up and voicing off. The leave it stopped two people being bitten - or I believed had they continued to do what they were, and the dog not told to leave them then they would have been bitten. Leave was taught in a general term, ie leave it - do not go near whatever it was they were interested in, snake, rabbit, sheep, person dog etc. The leave it stopped quite a few annoying dogs being bitten as even though they were in her face and she had gone to bite she listening and didn't. Still voiced her displeasure but enable me to get her back and the otehr dog not get bitten.

Generally I stayed out of circumstances that would have potentially required my dog to bite. With the WHippets I have got buckly's of them getting off the lounge.

OK. I'm not so impressed now. You didn't say how often you've let them go ahead and bite people.

I am not out to impress anyone so I really don't care. I would prefer my dog not bite people and they didn't as they hadn't needed to. They were well trained and could be taken anywhere and relied for having stable temperments. They looked convincing enough when they needed to ans shut up when told, made me happy, thats what matters

Edited November 22, 2013 by OSoSwift

[OSoSwift]

There are people that abuse working dogs, for sure, or don't look out for signs the dog doesn't enjoy the activity. I think that behaviour should always be targeted.

which is why we have :

dogs who are good at , and enjoy mustering

dogs who really are only at their best in the yards

dogs better at goats than sheep

dogs who are terrific in working away from human control

..and the ones who think they are doing a terrific job ..but are really only being given a day out ;)

they usually have an area in which they do best - so, that's what they will be given to do.....

..that's what good handlers do, Perse.

Sadly not everyone is a good handler.

I have to say our little OCD fella, is very handy in yards, paddock and on single sheep. We try to praise him for doing as we ask and he is like yeh yeh get outta my way and let me work sheep. He has been run over a few times by rams and whilst backing off a little for self preservation he still kept doing his job. He's got guts and lives for sheep work. If you asked him what he wanted it would be a definitly let me work sheep, even if I occassionally get ouchies!

There are risks in allowing my WHippets to chase bunnies, I remove as much risk as I can but they are doing what they are bred for and should be sound enough to do.

Edited November 22, 2013 by OSoSwift

[bertie]

:laugh: Yes, there's that zone, I forget now what it's called, Samman had a topic on it once & it's seriously irritating to be dragged out of it by someone trying to interact with you, that's just interference

[persephone]

We try to praise him for doing as we ask and he is like yeh yeh get outta my way and let me work sheep. He has been run over a few times by rams and whilst backing off a little for self preservation he still kept doing his job. He's got guts and lives for sheep work. If you asked him what he wanted it would be a definitly let me work sheep, even if I occassionally get ouchies!

They need to be like that (& more) when mustering/yarding feral goats too! sometimes they are told to bite & hang on to a foot or nose , otherwise the goats don't believe what they're being told !