Attn: All Nsw Dog Owners - Amendments To The Companion Animal Act

[tdierikx]

When was the last time anyone here heard of any small breed dog being declared dangerous? Even after it has wilfully attacked on more than one occasion?

Regardless of new legislation, I still don't see it being applied equally to small breed dogs. There is still the stupid misconception that smaller dogs "don't do that much damage"...

As someone who for many years had a complete phobia about small dogs and being bitten by same - after having one too many bad experiences - I'm not a fan of any legislation that will NOT be applied equally across the breed spectrum. I'm still much more cautious when approaching a smaller breed dog than a large breed, even after a number of years in rescue and learning to handle all sorts of dogs under all sorts of conditions. For example, I'm more comfortable approaching a stray staffy/pit mix with young pups to protect, than approaching a solo SWF I don't know... strange, but true... *sigh*

T.

I agree with your assessment of your fear, very strange.

Small dogs have been declared dangerous, don't you worry.

Any fear or bias against an entire 'type' or breed of dog is irrational, including yours.

Yep - I know that all too well... being a normally logical thinking type of person... but that fear/phobia is there nonetheless... *grin*

BUT - I certainly don't advocate the declaration of all small breed dogs as dangerous - I just approach them with more caution is all.

... and Dogmad, I know of a couple that were declared dangerous after attacking kennel hands in the pound... but that's a bit different to the ones out in the general public that really should be declared but aren't because some people believe "they don't do that much damage"...

T.

[melzawelza]

When was the last time anyone here heard of any small breed dog being declared dangerous? Even after it has wilfully attacked on more than one occasion?

Regardless of new legislation, I still don't see it being applied equally to small breed dogs. There is still the stupid misconception that smaller dogs "don't do that much damage"...

As someone who for many years had a complete phobia about small dogs and being bitten by same - after having one too many bad experiences - I'm not a fan of any legislation that will NOT be applied equally across the breed spectrum. I'm still much more cautious when approaching a smaller breed dog than a large breed, even after a number of years in rescue and learning to handle all sorts of dogs under all sorts of conditions. For example, I'm more comfortable approaching a stray staffy/pit mix with young pups to protect, than approaching a solo SWF I don't know... strange, but true... *sigh*

T.

I agree with your assessment of your fear, very strange.

Small dogs have been declared dangerous, don't you worry.

Any fear or bias against an entire 'type' or breed of dog is irrational, including yours.

Yep - I know that all too well... being a normally logical thinking type of person... but that fear/phobia is there nonetheless... *grin*

BUT - I certainly don't advocate the declaration of all small breed dogs as dangerous - I just approach them with more caution is all.

... and Dogmad, I know of a couple that were declared dangerous after attacking kennel hands in the pound... but that's a bit different to the ones out in the general public that really should be declared but aren't because some people believe "they don't do that much damage"...

T.

Sorry, my post was directed at Dogmad. Yes, your bias against an entire type of dog is irrational but it's a bit rich of Dogmad to be the one to point it out considering her posting history.

Regardless, it's clear from your post that while you have a fear you are rational about it and realise it is your own issue rather than being based in any kind of reality in regards to all small dogs being a problem. Something I couldn't say for the person who decided to try and pick you up on it. Pot, kettle and all that.

[GeckoTree]

Menacing breeds would be breeds that strike fear into the hearts of the neurotic after a media brainwashing session.

[tdierikx]

Thanks melzawelza... I do realise that my "thing" with smaller breeds is MY problem... and I've worked really hard on it NOT being a large problem any more. I've met hundreds of really nice smaller breed dogs since becoming involved with rescue, and they have helped me rationalise it better now. I'm at the point now where I take each dog as an individual entity, and interact at that level - regardless of the breed or size of the dog itself. This seems to work best for me...

T.

[Alison03]

Thanks melzawelza... I do realise that my "thing" with smaller breeds is MY problem... and I've worked really hard on it NOT being a large problem any more. I've met hundreds of really nice smaller breed dogs since becoming involved with rescue, and they have helped me rationalise it better now. I'm at the point now where I take each dog as an individual entity, and interact at that level - regardless of the breed or size of the dog itself. This seems to work best for me...

T.

I had the exact same problem with large breed dogs T, as you know, one bad experience can wipe out a 1000 good ones unfortunately.

After some intensive desensitization with various large breeds, I'm a lot better than I was. You are spot on when you say to treat each dog as an individual and not as it's breed type or size. : )

[Staffyluv]

The menacing thing is fantastic, it's going to result it a lot of dogs being declared menacing rather than dangerous, which will be a better life for the dogs and their owners.

I was super excited until I read this:

33A Meaning of “menacing” and “menacing breed or kind of dog”

(1) For the purposes of this Act, a dog is menacing if it:

(a) has displayed unreasonable aggression towards a person or animal

(other than vermin), or

(b) has, without provocation, attacked a person or animal (other than

vermin) but without causing serious injury or death.

(2) The regulations may declare a breed or kind of dog to be a menacing breed or

kind of dog.

(3) The Minister is not to recommend the making of a regulation under

subsection (2) unless the Minister is satisfied that the breed or kind of dog

concerned displays characteristics associated with menacing behaviour. APage 7

Companion Animals Amendment Bill 2013 [NSW]

Schedule 1 Amendment of Companion Animals Act 1998 No 87

failure to comply with this subsection does not invalidate the regulation

concerned.

You guys realise that they have just made it super easy to, and clearly have the intentions to, add more breeds to BSL under the menacing category?

Owners of any large, powerful breed should be very afraid. They wouldn't have put that in unless they intend to use it.

It is positively terrifying, isn't it!

As the owner of a rescued bull breed of unknown origin, it really does scare the hell out of me, where this is going..

It is hard, I love bull breeds and can't imagine owning any other breed or type of dog. I also choose to rescue, rather than buy a pedigree dog from a breeder.

Don't get me wrong, I would love another pedigree SBT but my heart is in rescue.

Buying a property out of town, is looking more and more appealing..

[melzawelza]

The menacing thing is fantastic, it's going to result it a lot of dogs being declared menacing rather than dangerous, which will be a better life for the dogs and their owners.

I was super excited until I read this:

33A Meaning of “menacing” and “menacing breed or kind of dog”

(1) For the purposes of this Act, a dog is menacing if it:

(a) has displayed unreasonable aggression towards a person or animal

(other than vermin), or

(b) has, without provocation, attacked a person or animal (other than

vermin) but without causing serious injury or death.

(2) The regulations may declare a breed or kind of dog to be a menacing breed or

kind of dog.

(3) The Minister is not to recommend the making of a regulation under

subsection (2) unless the Minister is satisfied that the breed or kind of dog

concerned displays characteristics associated with menacing behaviour. APage 7

Companion Animals Amendment Bill 2013 [NSW]

Schedule 1 Amendment of Companion Animals Act 1998 No 87

failure to comply with this subsection does not invalidate the regulation

concerned.

You guys realise that they have just made it super easy to, and clearly have the intentions to, add more breeds to BSL under the menacing category?

Owners of any large, powerful breed should be very afraid. They wouldn't have put that in unless they intend to use it.

It is positively terrifying, isn't it!

As the owner of a rescued bull breed of unknown origin, it really does scare the hell out of me, where this is going..

It is hard, I love bull breeds and can't imagine owning any other breed or type of dog. I also choose to rescue, rather than buy a pedigree dog from a breeder.

Don't get me wrong, I would love another pedigree SBT but my heart is in rescue.

Buying a property out of town, is looking more and more appealing..

Not even that will keep your dogs safe necessarily...

Clarence Valley Council killed a man's 18 'pit bulls' (supposedly) who lived on a property with him, and had never done anything wrong other than exist. They revel in telling the story every year at the Ranger's conference, to a room full of cheering idiots. Their favourite part to tell that gets the crowd cheering is the part where they came to check out the dogs, and one had died from a snake bite. They wanted a certificate of euth from the vet, and of course the owner didn't have that, and had buried the dog.

They made him dig up his own dog in front of them so they could scan the body for a microchip to confirm death.

[Staffyluv]

OMG that is awful Mel...

I just don't understand the angst toward bull breeds..

There are so many of them now - in the grand scheme of things, the amount that are 'not nice dogs' is so small (because there are so many of them). Not to mention it is usually just the fact that they are untrained and not raised properly..

Just breaks my heart.

[Alison03]

Yea, I'd be interested in how they determine this? Ordinary dogs under poor management show chasing, rushing and even "attacking" behaviors all the time. Lots of dogs will react this way to cats. Do they count cats as pets or pest animals now? Or does it depend if the cat is owned or feral? And how is the dog meant to know the difference? Lol questions over questions.

Currently if a dog attacks a cat off it's own property it is most likely to earn a Dangerous Dog Declaration. The incident is viewed the same in the legislation whether it's a person, a dog or a cat. Only vermin is excepted.

The Menacing thing might allow some dogs to get menacing rather than Dangerous for these incidents, although it's unlikely as most dogs will kill or do a real number on a cat if they get to them.

My Shihtzu cross would definitely chase a cat (or a bird )and do something horrible to it, if she caught it. I'd never let her off leash in a suburban area for that reason. She wouldn't bite a human but small animals and birds bring her prey drive to the surface. That's the reason she wears a large bell on her collar at all times, except when she's asleep on our bed. : )

[Alison03]

The menacing thing is fantastic, it's going to result it a lot of dogs being declared menacing rather than dangerous, which will be a better life for the dogs and their owners.

I was super excited until I read this:

33A Meaning of “menacing” and “menacing breed or kind of dog”

(1) For the purposes of this Act, a dog is menacing if it:

(a) has displayed unreasonable aggression towards a person or animal

(other than vermin), or

(b) has, without provocation, attacked a person or animal (other than

vermin) but without causing serious injury or death.

(2) The regulations may declare a breed or kind of dog to be a menacing breed or

kind of dog.

(3) The Minister is not to recommend the making of a regulation under

subsection (2) unless the Minister is satisfied that the breed or kind of dog

concerned displays characteristics associated with menacing behaviour. APage 7

Companion Animals Amendment Bill 2013 [NSW]

Schedule 1 Amendment of Companion Animals Act 1998 No 87

failure to comply with this subsection does not invalidate the regulation

concerned.

You guys realise that they have just made it super easy to, and clearly have the intentions to, add more breeds to BSL under the menacing category?

Owners of any large, powerful breed should be very afraid. They wouldn't have put that in unless they intend to use it.

It is positively terrifying, isn't it!

As the owner of a rescued bull breed of unknown origin, it really does scare the hell out of me, where this is going..

It is hard, I love bull breeds and can't imagine owning any other breed or type of dog. I also choose to rescue, rather than buy a pedigree dog from a breeder.

Don't get me wrong, I would love another pedigree SBT but my heart is in rescue.

Buying a property out of town, is looking more and more appealing..

Not even that will keep your dogs safe necessarily...

Clarence Valley Council killed a man's 18 'pit bulls' (supposedly) who lived on a property with him, and had never done anything wrong other than exist. They revel in telling the story every year at the Ranger's conference, to a room full of cheering idiots. Their favourite part to tell that gets the crowd cheering is the part where they came to check out the dogs, and one had died from a snake bite. They wanted a certificate of euth from the vet, and of course the owner didn't have that, and had buried the dog.

They made him dig up his own dog in front of them so they could scan the body for a microchip to confirm death.

That was very cruel and heartless of the rangers to make the man dig up his own pet. Why is it so hard for some people to just be decent human beings. Even if there is good reason to PTS someone's dog, there is no need to carry on like its a celebration. In this case when they were killed for being a certain breed and for nothing else, it's especially disgraceful. : (

[melzawelza]

The menacing thing is fantastic, it's going to result it a lot of dogs being declared menacing rather than dangerous, which will be a better life for the dogs and their owners.

I was super excited until I read this:

33A Meaning of “menacing” and “menacing breed or kind of dog”

(1) For the purposes of this Act, a dog is menacing if it:

(a) has displayed unreasonable aggression towards a person or animal

(other than vermin), or

(b) has, without provocation, attacked a person or animal (other than

vermin) but without causing serious injury or death.

(2) The regulations may declare a breed or kind of dog to be a menacing breed or

kind of dog.

(3) The Minister is not to recommend the making of a regulation under

subsection (2) unless the Minister is satisfied that the breed or kind of dog

concerned displays characteristics associated with menacing behaviour. APage 7

Companion Animals Amendment Bill 2013 [NSW]

Schedule 1 Amendment of Companion Animals Act 1998 No 87

failure to comply with this subsection does not invalidate the regulation

concerned.

You guys realise that they have just made it super easy to, and clearly have the intentions to, add more breeds to BSL under the menacing category?

Owners of any large, powerful breed should be very afraid. They wouldn't have put that in unless they intend to use it.

It is positively terrifying, isn't it!

As the owner of a rescued bull breed of unknown origin, it really does scare the hell out of me, where this is going..

It is hard, I love bull breeds and can't imagine owning any other breed or type of dog. I also choose to rescue, rather than buy a pedigree dog from a breeder.

Don't get me wrong, I would love another pedigree SBT but my heart is in rescue.

Buying a property out of town, is looking more and more appealing..

Not even that will keep your dogs safe necessarily...

Clarence Valley Council killed a man's 18 'pit bulls' (supposedly) who lived on a property with him, and had never done anything wrong other than exist. They revel in telling the story every year at the Ranger's conference, to a room full of cheering idiots. Their favourite part to tell that gets the crowd cheering is the part where they came to check out the dogs, and one had died from a snake bite. They wanted a certificate of euth from the vet, and of course the owner didn't have that, and had buried the dog.

They made him dig up his own dog in front of them so they could scan the body for a microchip to confirm death.

That was very cruel and heartless of the rangers to make the man dig up his own pet. Why is it so hard for some people to just be decent human beings. Even if there is good reason to PTS someone's dog, there is no need to carry on like its a celebration. In this case when they were killed for being a certain breed and for nothing else, it's especially disgraceful. : (

That is exactly it. As NSW is a BSL state those of us in Council officer roles are expected to enforce it, it's part of the job. That does not excuse relishing in it, enjoying it and treating people like dirt because they own a dog that was born with the wrong appearance. I refuse to go to the Ranger conferences anymore - it is all about enforcement, stomping your boots and 'getting' people and their dogs rather than progressive animal management. The Australian Institute of Animal Management conference is much more inspiring.

[Alison03]

The menacing thing is fantastic, it's going to result it a lot of dogs being declared menacing rather than dangerous, which will be a better life for the dogs and their owners.

I was super excited until I read this:

33A Meaning of “menacing” and “menacing breed or kind of dog”

(1) For the purposes of this Act, a dog is menacing if it:

(a) has displayed unreasonable aggression towards a person or animal

(other than vermin), or

(b) has, without provocation, attacked a person or animal (other than

vermin) but without causing serious injury or death.

(2) The regulations may declare a breed or kind of dog to be a menacing breed or

kind of dog.

(3) The Minister is not to recommend the making of a regulation under

subsection (2) unless the Minister is satisfied that the breed or kind of dog

concerned displays characteristics associated with menacing behaviour. APage 7

Companion Animals Amendment Bill 2013 [NSW]

Schedule 1 Amendment of Companion Animals Act 1998 No 87

failure to comply with this subsection does not invalidate the regulation

concerned.

You guys realise that they have just made it super easy to, and clearly have the intentions to, add more breeds to BSL under the menacing category?

Owners of any large, powerful breed should be very afraid. They wouldn't have put that in unless they intend to use it.

It is positively terrifying, isn't it!

As the owner of a rescued bull breed of unknown origin, it really does scare the hell out of me, where this is going..

It is hard, I love bull breeds and can't imagine owning any other breed or type of dog. I also choose to rescue, rather than buy a pedigree dog from a breeder.

Don't get me wrong, I would love another pedigree SBT but my heart is in rescue.

Buying a property out of town, is looking more and more appealing..

Not even that will keep your dogs safe necessarily...

Clarence Valley Council killed a man's 18 'pit bulls' (supposedly) who lived on a property with him, and had never done anything wrong other than exist. They revel in telling the story every year at the Ranger's conference, to a room full of cheering idiots. Their favourite part to tell that gets the crowd cheering is the part where they came to check out the dogs, and one had died from a snake bite. They wanted a certificate of euth from the vet, and of course the owner didn't have that, and had buried the dog.

They made him dig up his own dog in front of them so they could scan the body for a microchip to confirm death.

That was very cruel and heartless of the rangers to make the man dig up his own pet. Why is it so hard for some people to just be decent human beings. Even if there is good reason to PTS someone's dog, there is no need to carry on like its a celebration. In this case when they were killed for being a certain breed and for nothing else, it's especially disgraceful. : (

That is exactly it. As NSW is a BSL state those of us in Council officer roles are expected to enforce it, it's part of the job. That does not excuse relishing in it, enjoying it and treating people like dirt because they own a dog that was born with the wrong appearance. I refuse to go to the Ranger conferences anymore - it is all about enforcement, stomping your boots and 'getting' people and their dogs rather than progressive animal management. The Australian Institute of Animal Management conference is much more inspiring.

Good for you Melza, it's hard to refuse to go with the crowd but I can see it would be sickening for you to have too.

Even if a dog has done something wrong, it should still be treated as fairly as possible. It's the owners who are to blame not the dogs.

I've had some interaction with animal control officers in the past and they seemed to go out of their way to be fair to everyone concerned. I guess that's not true of all of them.

[Katdogs]

I'm so glad you do what you do, and are who you are Melza. Can't be easy.

[melzawelza]

Oh, thanks for the kind words guys. IMO what I do isn't anything special and should be bare minimum, and lots of Council officers here in Sydney are really amazing and are brilliant at what they do, there are so many people i have huge admiration for and am inspired by.

The cowboys absolutely ruin it for the rest of us though. I nearly quit six months in because I didn't want to be associated with them. But it's better to stick with it, treat people with respect and keep the cowboys in the minority.

[Alison03]

Oh, thanks for the kind words guys. IMO what I do isn't anything special and should be bare minimum, and lots of Council officers here in Sydney are really amazing and are brilliant at what they do, there are so many people i have huge admiration for and am inspired by.

The cowboys absolutely ruin it for the rest of us though. I nearly quit six months in because I didn't want to be associated with them. But it's better to stick with it, treat people with respect and keep the cowboys in the minority.

Yes don't let the cowboys win, sometimes people pick their job for the wrong reasons, they don't care about making the world a better place, those types shouldn't be put in charge of making decisions for our loved ones (ie pets). Unfortunately all too often they are the ones with that power. People like you even out the balance and remind the others how they are supposed to act, with firmness and compassion. : )