Leah82 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 This is the kind of playpen you need, http://www.dealsdirect.com.au/8-panels-pet-exercise-playpen-1/ You can get different sizes depending on the size of your puppy. A few people have set the play pen up with a fake grassy toilet area bit like this http://www.dealsdirect.com.au/mini-pet-loo-63-63-14cm/ Someone on the forum managed to make their own doggy toilet for a lot cheaper than you can buy them though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliwake Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 I don't have a lot of advice, but just wanted to offer my sympathy. Our lab pup is now 9 months old, but was extremely challenging for the first 4-6 weeks we had him (at least!). But, your pup sounds like she's taking things to another level! The thing that concerns me most about your pup is the lack of sleep - a pup that age should be sleeping around 20hours a day I think, and that's clearly not happening. Possibly she is stressed out, if she's awake all the time? One option to consider may be mild sedation, though it's not ideal, and not the first thing to try. Another option is a DAP collar (called adaptil now I think?). You should be able to get one from your vet. We got one for our pup the day after we got him, though I'm still not sure whether it helped him or not. In theory, they're meant to release a calming pheromone, similar to what's released by their mother when they were feeding, so it should be a comforting thing for them. The collar lasts for a month. Your breeder does sound a little strange, but if he has any genuine concern for his dogs, hopefully he will be able to offer you some decent advice!! Fingers crossed. I still so clearly remember the stress of having a new puppy, so I really feel for you, and hope you can manage to work through at least some of your issues soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliwake Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 P.S. have you tried feeding and/or giving treats in the crate? That's usually the fastest way to get them ok with being in there... I once hand fed our pup his whole meal of kibble, piece by piece in his crate, just to get him relaxed and happy to be in there. I had the front door shut and fed him through the hatch in the top :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogda Posted November 20, 2013 Author Share Posted November 20, 2013 H and thanks for advice. I have emailed the breeder and he responded with plenty of information. He seems to think I have created the problem, and hopes that it is not too late to change things around. I am a little confused because all I have done is what I followed in his booklet we got when purchased the pup. I reprimand her and try and reward her when I can. I have done all the things I have read about toilet training. I have supplied many soft toys and other doggie toys for her to play with and use to distract her from the biting. I have not spoiled I believe just trying to constantly distract her from biting barking and going to the toilet everywhere inside. She has plenty of outside time on leash. I am just totally confused. He wants me to put her in a crate away from everyone, no treats, and put her out in yard on her own for longer periods. I am concerned about that as in everything I have read it says young pups should not be left unsupervised in crates or on their own whilst outside in case they hurt themselves or eat something out of the garden that could be dangerous. I have to give him the benefit of the doubt though as he is a breeder/trainer so he must know what he is talking about. He is calling tonight so hopefully I will get a better idea of what's what after that. Thanks for help. Mogda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliwake Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 I'm really glad he's stepped up Mogda! He may mean that your pup needs some time by itself, without your company, so she doesn't get too attached or needy. A playpen will be much better than a crate for that, because she'll still have enough room to play safely, while experiencing some important alone time. My pup didn't like his playpen much, but he was in it every day when I went to work, and did settle down eventually. Good luck implementing his suggestions, it's great he's willing to help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Can you create a safe space outside & only use the crate for inside ? I have about 10 of the Bunnings compost panels joined with plastic cable ties to make a safe space for pups to play outside. I also join up 2or 3 large size dog crates to make a safe inside space & that's for my toy breed so a lab needs more room than a toy. Get a huge marrow bone & get the butcher to cut it into 2 or 4 with the saw & have a bone in the pen & a bone in the crate. Pup is probably teething & they may be driving him nuts. A huge bone will really help & keep him occupied. Pups are crazy but they do grow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 (edited) If you bought a Labrador pup thinking it would be calm, I suggest you have a few years to wait for that to happen! The gundog babies I have known have been active, chewy babies and your job as an owner is to channel that activity in positive directions and give the chewing an outlet you can manage. You have to go through your house (frankly I suggest you crawl) and pick up or safely contain EVERYTHING a curious pup can investigate. Pups investigate with their mouths so they will chew as exploration. If she gets it, its your fault... impress that on your children. How is she getting to things like phones and remotes?? If you cannot puppy proof the house puppy proof a room. No pen is going to contain an active Labrador pup for long. If you intend that this pup spend its time outside when you are not at home, then outside is where the pup goes when you cannot supervise. You need to puppy proof the yard in the same way you proof the house or again, make a part of the yard safe with a secure fenced run. Enrol IMMEDIATELY in a decent dog training class (not just puppy preschool) - this is a breed that needs a job and if you don't give her one, she'll find one for herself - even it that is shredding things Finally, I highly recommend the training notes will find on www.dogstardaily.com With toilet training, every time that pups wakes, sniffs, eats or looks around, TAKE HER OUTSIDE AND STAY THERE. Don't play, or interact. Put a chair out there if you must but you don't come back in until she 'delivers'. She should be offlead for this. Praise like crazy for doing the right thing and reprimand yourself for any accident inside because frankly, it will be your fault. Pups dont have much bladder control. She should be in her crate inside unless someone is actively supervising her and it should stay that way until she is accident free. Put her in the crate if you are nearby, eg watching TV, SHUT THE DOOR and weather the storm. No one gives in and that door never opens until she is quiet. Sounds like its time for some tough love on a little princess. Ditto for mouthing and scratching. She needs to learn that it is not acceptable to have her mouth on people or to scratch. If you don't know how to discourage that, talk to a decent trainer but frankly you may have to be quite hard on it. You need to do that now because she needs to learn bite inhibition before she gets much bigger and you don't have forever to do it. I have had gundog babies charge at me with their mouths open and ready to grab.. you need to teach her that this is not acceptable. Its a shame you felt the need to buy a pup quickly because Labradors do come in a couple of lines and frankly some working line pups will be a real challenge for a family to raise - they thrive on stimulation. On the other hand they are a very trainable breed - you just have to make sure that they are learning what you want them to know, rather than what they can get away with. Sounds to me like there's been a bit of the latter. Good luck. Everyone has their "oh my God, what have we done" moment with new pups. But with more knowledge and effort you can raise a wonderful family member. :) I honestly think you'd benefit from some decent in home training with a good dog trainer who can show you the ropes. Edited November 20, 2013 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 if your yard is fenced well ... and has no snail bait /sprinkler system ... I wouuld suggest leaving pup outside . ..or at least let her off teh leash! poor baby ...She is probably dying to eun/dig/explore .. and she can't . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 What Haredown whippets has said is on the money and i would start asap. Puppy needs to learn from day one that tantrums do not result in attention- every time you give in you will compound the problem significantly- short term pain for long term gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogda Posted November 20, 2013 Author Share Posted November 20, 2013 Ok and thanks to all replies. We will have to fence off a part of the yard that will be safe for her to have independent outside time. I have made the kitchen the safe room as it is the only one that doesn't have furniture she can chew through. I am trying with the crate again tomorrow but in the daytime first not to make it too hard on our neighbours. I will have a trainer organized before the end of the day tomorrow to come and help us with correcting and learning how to properly train her. I did not buy a Labrador puppy expecting her to be immediately calm. I am aware that all puppies take a great deal of patience and work. I chose the breed for the possibility of grandchildren over the next 5 years, and knew of their gentleness and good character. I appreciate all advice offered and the time taken to do so. Mogda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 (edited) Ok and thanks to all replies. We will have to fence off a part of the yard that will be safe for her to have independent outside time. I have made the kitchen the safe room as it is the only one that doesn't have furniture she can chew through. I am trying with the crate again tomorrow but in the daytime first not to make it too hard on our neighbours. I will have a trainer organized before the end of the day tomorrow to come and help us with correcting and learning how to properly train her. I did not buy a Labrador puppy expecting her to be immediately calm. I am aware that all puppies take a great deal of patience and work. I chose the breed for the possibility of grandchildren over the next 5 years, and knew of their gentleness and good character. I appreciate all advice offered and the time taken to do so. Mogda Good luck. Remember she is not made of glass and that she has to learn to deal with not getting what she wants and with boredom and separation. The sooner that starts, the better for all of you. I suspect the hardest part of the training will be training the males in the house NOT to derail your good work by giving in to her demands. Dogs can be very effective trainers. Oh and I would be feeding all meals and all treats in that crate. If young children are around, she should be in that crate whenever she is eating or they are. Better safe than sorry. Edited November 20, 2013 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty Miss Emma Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 (edited) ETA - I just saw posts I didn't realise were in the thread so some of what I've mentioned might be a bit repetitive! but I feel your pain having had a high maintenance pup, and maybe some of the things I've mentioned might be useful to you (even just as support!!)! Where did she come from? It's sonding like she didn't have much socialisation in terms of living in a house with a family or any alone time before coming to you. it sounds like she is used to being entertained whenever she pleases. My girl was a high maintenance puppy and did some of the things you are mentioning. First 3 nights I had her there was not a great deal of sleep for the first 2 hours she was put to bed. She was put in a crate with a nice toy, cosy bed, a rawhide chew - she screamed for close to 2 hours! I would get up and take her outside to the toilet, then straight back to bed in the crate (with door locked shut but it was beside my bed). no fuss, no conversation. She eventually wore herself out and fell asleep for the rest of the night. the next 2 nights it took less time for her to get to sleep and then after that she just accepted it was bed time and would go to sleep. But it took toughing it out the first few nights to get to that point. She would chew everything under the sun, so everything got put away. every time she tried to mouth me I squealed, and then once she did it too hard and I ended up growling at her big time and the mouthing stopped. She chewed everything she could for around 2 years, so that meant lots of trips to the cheapy stores to buy her whatever she was allowed to chew, plus lots of soft drink bottles and heaps of rawhides and big bones. She was also a nightmare to toilet train, so she was crated any time I couldn't supervise her indoors until she was reliable with asking to go out or taking herself outside. If your pup isn't going when you take her out it probably means you aren't waiting long enough. Don't forget to praise and give treats when she does go outside, this worked really well for me in terms of getting my girl to want to go outside (but then teaching her to come and find me to ask to go out was a different ball game!). The one thing I wish I had taught my girl earlier (to make my life easier!) was to settle and chill out. She was a hyper pup who always wanted to be entertained and I was excited about training a new pup. So therefore she was always entertained! Big mistake!!! I ended up with an 18 month old dog who couldn't just hang out with me!!! So I would focus on teaching your pup to settle - when pup is lying down beside you that's when the rewards come out. And pups daily food ration can be the rewards it doesn't have to be special treats all the time. The other thing I was thinking as I read your post... Have you taken the pup for a vet visit? Lots of what you have mentioned sounds very extreme, it may be worth having a check up to see that all is ok with the pup if you haven't done this already. And puppy school is good but it probably won't help you with a lot of these problems (still valuable for socialisation and basic training though), it may be a good idea to look at other trainers who may be able to come and visit you at home to see what the pup is doing and give you some specific guided advice. Edited November 20, 2013 by Pretty Miss Emma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daisy.Tea Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 I just want to say that I think it's really brilliant that you're committed to giving this pup the help she needs and getting it right. Already a lot of great advice has been given. Don't be afraid to get some professional help too, I did with one of my dogs although her problems were not that bad, because I wanted to prevent them from worsening. Those few hours were incredibly useful and she is now a joy to take out and about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogda Posted November 20, 2013 Author Share Posted November 20, 2013 Ok thanks. The breeder I spoke to tonight on the phone said that we are not to give her anymore attention. The treats and the praise are to stop. He believes this could possibly have been what caused this type of behavior. He said whilst we were trying to stop the bad behavior by stopping her from biting us, ripping the lounge etc, and redirecting her elsewhere. and treating the stopping, we were rewarding her for bad behavior and encouraging her all the more. He said when she is in the crate it has to be somewhere separate like a garage and to try it tomorrow in daytime to not disturb the neighbours, and leave her in there for up to 3 hrs as she will be safe. He also suggested us going to the vet and getting some tablets to use occasionally so as we can have her sleep and we also get some sleep. I am not mad about this idea and would prefer to probably not try this approach. Anyway tomorrow is a new day to start afresh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Wow, I wouldn't be drugging a puppy just because it isn't used to sleeping yet, that's really wrong unless there is a diagnosed issue and I doubt you'd find any vet that would give you drugs for a pup to make it sleep. I'm also not a fan of totally withdrawing treats. There's nothing wrong with using treats as long as you are using them at the right time so as not to reward bad behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty Miss Emma Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 I would be speaking to a professional trainer/behaviourist before following the advice you mention the breeder has given. Everyone is different, but unless he is a trainer who is experienced in dealing with such problems I'd be wary of some of that advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogda Posted November 20, 2013 Author Share Posted November 20, 2013 AS I said I am not going to try the drug method anyway. Yes she has been to the vets to have her booster and yes he did note how full-on she was. I strictly followed a couple of dog training websites about how to deter them from bad behavior and reward when they stopped doing it when told. But he feels that because she just continued to either bite or rip things she was using the behavior with the act of doing it . . .stopping it when told . . . getting the reward . . .and then going back and doing it again to get the reward. He believed shes too smart for reward system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 He said when she is in the crate it has to be somewhere separate like a garage and to try it tomorrow in daytime to not disturb the neighbours, and leave her in there for up to 3 hrs as she will be safe. she may be safe ..apart from possible tooth/jaw damage as she bites at the wire ..or claw damage ..or being covered in pee/poo if she gets really worked up& anxious ..... and never ever wanting to go near the crate ..... I am not one for giving pups heaps of freedom at first ..but that method sounds a bit OTT . you really need to work out what exercise she is getting ? do you play with her out in teh yard ? off lead of course if you have fences .. good playtimes will help occupy her brain/body ... INSIDE is then for relaxing/being calm and quiet ..... I also suggest you read this : N I L I F and buy a good quality (not supermarket, 2$ shop) chain lead . This will discourage her from chewing ;) It's what I always use with puppies from day one . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic.B Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 I agree with others, great advice in this thread. It is really fantastic that you are so committed :) My parents Goldie was wicked as a puppy! though Mum and Dads lives revolved around her and she was incredibly spoilt. As she matured people would comment on what a beautiful dog she was, Annie would bat her eyelids, noone could believe the mischeif she got up to. Puppies are easily distracted, so when toileting her take the time needed. She may go two or three times. HW suggestion of sitting on a chair outside with her is perfect. Limit the rooms she has access to while inside, it will be easier to supervise her. It is certainly time for this little lady to learn some boundries. Empty cardboard boxes are free and a great way to entertain, when she has finished just pop it all in the recycle bin. A great trainer will be a huge assest for all, you will feel much more confident in guiding her. If you have time, pics are a must! Good Luck. p.s the idea of drugs at her tiny age is a real concern. Give K9pro a call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaseyKay Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 No one warns you about the naughtiness of gundog puppies :) When they grow up they are such lovely, calm, beautiful dogs. I grew up with Border collies and other assorted sheepdog breeds. Didn't prepare me at all for the whirlwind that was Scout (Brittany) as a baby puppy. The other gundog owners I knew all when I told them my woes. Put Gael my BC in her crate as little puppy, puppy curls up and goes to sleep. Awwww. Put Scout in crate as little puppy at bedtime = screaming and tantrums "Don't want to be in here!! Will not sleep!! And neither will YOU!!". Also I had to learn you can't take your eyes off them for a second. She got up to mischief in a way that would never occur to any of my BC puppies. It took me longer than you might think to learn to not leave stuff like shoes lying around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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