Breed Recomendations

[dogmatic]

Farm-life can be dangerous full-stop. I mentioned dogs on quads - but it's not much safer really. I've never heard of a dog being run over by a horse though. I've been run over a few times but managed to get up with a just a few bruises and scratches, so I suppose it can happen to a dog.

I only know one Weimaraner, and was saying that their shortcomings can be managed with devotion from the owners. I have heard and read a bit about them, and really can't see their reported down-side in the one dog I know. She's still young though. I'll pass on the warnings to the owners when next I see them.

[BlackJaq]

Well, since my dog is pretty well trained and leads a full and busy life, you would not know about her downsides by simply meeting her either ;)

In fact, she is known as an excellently behaved dog. Many shops let me bring her inside, even though dogs in general are not really supposed to enter. She will stay for hours in my car, quietly, without destroying anything, while I am busy, sleeping at a friend's house, shopping, shooting where she is not allowed etc etc (if it is not too hot, obviously). She is the most quiet inside dog I know. In fact, if you came to visit me at my house, you would not know there is a dog inside. She stays on her bed in my bedroom until I tell her it is time to go outside. She is extremely obedient, quick to learn, and always desperate to do as I say. She knows if she listens to me, she will get to release the urges she has (chase and grab game, retrieve it to hand etc).

She can be off lead around all my poultry and sheep, and around all other animals, under my supervision. She would probably just hang around the house without causing too much trouble while I was inside, but I am not willing to find out that one for sure.

However, if I am ill for a week and she does not get the exercise and stimulation she needs, she will soon let me know that she is not happy. First by asking to be let out and in a few times. Later by coming up to me and just poking or looking at me. Eventually she will start making a grab for something in the bin or chewing an empty toilet roll... It would deteriorate from there I imagine. I have also spoken to Weim owners who were giving up their dogs and the patterns are remarkably similar.

I am not saying nobody can be happy with a Weim as a pet. I am. Extremely so. But most of them want to work. They want to work hard. A stroll around the firebreak just won't do it for them.

And being a late maturing breed, most owners do not realize how much shit they are in until at least 18 months, but more often 2 or 3 years of age. The prey drive for example can often be weak or barely noticeable until 12 months. Eventually guarding behaviors may and often do develop. "Stubbornness" is a reported trait in the breed, though I have not yet encountered it personally.

Anyway, I have to say that English speaking literature does not often mention specifics about issues with Weimaraners (other than destruction and separation anxiety), particularly those with aggression. However, searching forums for threads on problems with Weimaraners or speaking to owners who are surrendering you will soon notice that the issues are there, just not spoken about. It is a different story in Germany, where the breed is still a performance breed and papered dogs do not generally go to non hunters. The man sharpness is openly recognized there, and also the consequences of lack of firm leadership and appropriate stimulation. Many German Weim owners will go so far as calling it cruelty to not allow a Weim to live out his instinct for hunting and retrieving game by working the dog.

I do not necessarily agree with all of this but since Weims are known for separation anxiety and other mental issues in other countries that are virtually unheard of in working Weims they have to be doing something right I'd think

Edited November 18, 2013 by BlackJaq

[Alibi]

My parents have fenced off a small yard at the back of their house so their new griff pup has access to a secure outside area out of one of the back doors as they are on a acre block of land. Could they do something like that?

[raineth]

I have to say that what Blackjaq is saying echoes my brother's experience with his Weim.

He and his wife put tonnes and tonnes of effort into him and he did turn out to be a wonderful dog, incredibly reliable and obedient.

They are both athletes running many kilometres a week with him, taking him to training and outings every evening.

They still had difficulties with separation anxiety when they were at work, and he literally ate through two doors when he was only around four months old.

He was a wonderful dog, but always resorted to destruction if left inside, even when he was very old. He passed away on a hot day at the beginning of this year aged 15.

[dogmatic]

My parents have fenced off a small yard at the back of their house so their new griff pup has access to a secure outside area out of one of the back doors as they are on a acre block of land. Could they do something like that?

I think the OP has rejected the idea of fencing:

... and the lack off fencing isn't going to change.

BlackJaq, How many Weimaraners have you actually owned? No offence, but your generalisations seemed to be based on your knowledge of just one dog.

Off-topic again, my concern about running dogs alongside vehicles does not only relate to the risks of them getting run over. I've seen a dog desperately trying to keep up with its owner. When I was close enough, I could see one of its pads was raw and bleeding, unknown to the owner. Many dogs will just keep going and going regardless of injury.

[mixeduppup]

My parents have fenced off a small yard at the back of their house so their new griff pup has access to a secure outside area out of one of the back doors as they are on a acre block of land. Could they do something like that?

I think the OP has rejected the idea of fencing:

... and the lack off fencing isn't going to change.

BlackJaq, How many Weimaraners have you actually owned? No offence, but your generalisations seemed to be based on your knowledge of just one dog.

Off-topic again, my concern about running dogs alongside vehicles does not only relate to the risks of them getting run over. I've seen a dog desperately trying to keep up with its owner. When I was close enough, I could see one of its pads was raw and bleeding, unknown to the owner. Many dogs will just keep going and going regardless of injury.

And many owners routinely check their dogs and don't run them too hard.

[dogmatic]

Off-topic again, my concern about running dogs alongside vehicles does not only relate to the risks of them getting run over. I've seen a dog desperately trying to keep up with its owner. When I was close enough, I could see one of its pads was raw and bleeding, unknown to the owner. Many dogs will just keep going and going regardless of injury.

And many owners routinely check their dogs and don't run them too hard.

mixeduppup, You can advocate running dogs alongside vehicles all you like. It won't alter my opposition to it. I find it hard to believe that you are actually giving advice about how to run dogs alongside vehicles. "routinely check"? "don't run them too hard"? What exactly does that mean?

[mixeduppup]

Off-topic again, my concern about running dogs alongside vehicles does not only relate to the risks of them getting run over. I've seen a dog desperately trying to keep up with its owner. When I was close enough, I could see one of its pads was raw and bleeding, unknown to the owner. Many dogs will just keep going and going regardless of injury.

And many owners routinely check their dogs and don't run them too hard.

mixeduppup, You can advocate running dogs alongside vehicles all you like. It won't alter my opposition to it. I find it hard to believe that you are actually giving advice about how to run dogs alongside vehicles. "routinely check"? "don't run them too hard"? What exactly does that mean?

It means you obviously don't understand country life and that farms are full of danger and getting hit by an owner going slowly in a ute and routinely checking their dog is one of the less dangerous activities.

[dogmatic]

It means you obviously don't understand country life and that farms are full of danger and getting hit by an owner going slowly in a ute and routinely checking their dog is one of the less dangerous activities.

LOL. Spoken like a real bushie.

Edited November 18, 2013 by dogmatic

[mixeduppup]

It means you obviously don't understand country life and that farms are full of danger and getting hit by an owner going slowly in a ute and routinely checking their dog is one of the less dangerous activities.

LOL. Spoken like a real bushie.

Spoken like a realist you mean.

Edited November 18, 2013 by mixeduppup

[kelpiecuddles]

Most activities involve some level of risk. People who do dog sports recognise the risks to their dogs joints that need to be managed, people who live/walk their dogs in bushy areas recognise the risk of snakes or ticks, those who's dogs work in the armed forces know the risks to their working dogs and people who live on the land and have working dogs recognise that there are risks associated with the way those dogs work. it's not about the risks it's about being sensible and managing them, plenty of people drop feed to cattle off the back of slow moving utes and dogs may follow along, that doesn't make them irresponsible, it's the reality of life on a farm, unless the farmer is tearing around the paddock, which they won't be under those circumstances then the risk to a dog who is used to being around slow moving vehicles isn't huge.

[dogmatic]

It means you obviously don't understand country life and that farms are full of danger and getting hit by an owner going slowly in a ute and routinely checking their dog is one of the less dangerous activities.

LOL. Spoken like a real bushie.

Spoken like a realist you mean.

Yes. That too, I'm sure. :)

[BlackJaq]

Yes, I own one Weimaraner, my first in fact :)

I also know several other dogs personally, who fit my sweeping generalizations perfectly.

I guess I know the rest through online contacts and hearsay. I am sure there are some Weimaraners who deviate from my generalizations.

The OP can choose to get a Weimaraner regardless of my recommendations and descriptions and in that case my prediction of disaster stands, according to what I know of the breed. Perhaps they will let us know after the fact :)

ETA: I am confused as to why my dog will run her pads bloody following a car but not a horse? As I said, my dog is used to running large distances every day. I presume she must have some kind of callous build-up because I have never seen her pads bleed. I did build up to this regime slowly. I also built her up to this level of fitness on purpose since she needs to be fit for the various dog sports and hunting activities we participate in. Conditioning a dog for a job is important. If somebody makes their dog run kilometres without prior training and makes their pads bleed that is hardly the fault of the vehicle they are travelling in....

Edited November 18, 2013 by BlackJaq

[dogmatic]

I recommended against a Weimaraner too.

I can't think of a breed that's guaranteed not to wander. That aside, I too would have recommended a Corgi, and suggested thinking twice about a Weimer. ...

My recommendation was based purely on the physical characteristics of the dog. I would not recommend it for rural life in Australia at all.

[Alyosha]

Most activities involve some level of risk. People who do dog sports recognise the risks to their dogs joints that need to be managed, people who live/walk their dogs in bushy areas recognise the risk of snakes or ticks, those who's dogs work in the armed forces know the risks to their working dogs and people who live on the land and have working dogs recognise that there are risks associated with the way those dogs work. it's not about the risks it's about being sensible and managing them, plenty of people drop feed to cattle off the back of slow moving utes and dogs may follow along, that doesn't make them irresponsible, it's the reality of life on a farm, unless the farmer is tearing around the paddock, which they won't be under those circumstances then the risk to a dog who is used to being around slow moving vehicles isn't huge.

Very well said kelpiecuddles!

[BlackJaq]

We live in rural Australia actually :D And we have fences that the dog could scale easily as well, as I described in my post. However, I spent a huge amount of time and effort on my Weimaraner and so far we have not had any issues. However, we are aware of the dog's capabilities and did our homework, which probably contributes to our (so far) problem free Weimaraner.

I certainly did not say it cannot be done. It just takes a lot of time and commitment. And some knowledge of the breed helps, too, even if it is passed on from other owners, trainers, breeders and even books and the internet :)

[dogmatic]

We live in rural Australia actually :D And we have fences that the dog could scale easily as well, as I described in my post. However, I spent a huge amount of time and effort on my Weimaraner and so far we have not had any issues. However, we are aware of the dog's capabilities and did our homework, which probably contributes to our (so far) problem free Weimaraner.

I certainly did not say it cannot be done. It just takes a lot of time and commitment. And some knowledge of the breed helps, too, even if it is passed on from other owners, trainers, breeders and even books and the internet :)

"I spent a huge amount of time and effort on my Weimaraner"

That is why I would not recommend it for rural life in Australia. Just being a realist. :)

A Weimaraner has barely any coat to protect itself from the environment. From appearances it's just not hardy enough for the Australian bush.

Edited November 18, 2013 by dogmatic

[BlackJaq]

They are not recommended to be outside only dogs in any case. Since our dog lives inside with us unless we are not home, she does not have any issues. She hunts in the bush with us and while she does bang herself up (no worse than other short coated hunting dogs I imagine) this does not stop her performing her work. Just as a dog might push itself and tear a pad chasing a vehicle, a dog will push itself during hunting and may continue to work despite injuries. This is a normal part of a hunting dog's life and we willingly take that risk each time we take her.

However, something that they certainly can have issues with is sunburn, just like any liver nosed dog (or any dog with reduced pigmentation, i.e. pink skin etc). I know this personally (my own dog has burnt her nose so I now apply lip balm with a sun blocker if we are outside for more than a couple of hours or if we are going to be in full sun a lot) and I also personally know several other Weimaraners who tend to always have disgusting scabby burnt noses due to sunburn (those dogs, incidentally, live outside full time).

Funnily enough those dogs also exhibit many of the issues I have listed previously...

Apart from that I do not see why they would be less suitable to Australian bush conditions?

[BlackJaq]

Also, there are plenty of rural dog owners who spent equal amounts of time and effort on their dogs, regardless of breed. I am sure the same goes for city people. I am also sure that there are people in both city and country who do spent equally little time and effort on their dogs :)

[kelpiecuddles]

Also, there are plenty of rural dog owners who spent equal amounts of time and effort on their dogs, regardless of breed. I am sure the same goes for city people. I am also sure that there are people in both city and country who do spent equally little time and effort on their dogs :)

Any dog trained for a purpose will have had a lot of effort put in to it, whether that purpose be to herd, to hunt or to be a well adjusted member of the family. The type and intensity of effort differs by breed but that's about it.

My kelpie required effort to ensure she had a good off switch, whereas my basset was already chilled but we concentrated on barking tendency of the breed.