Clipping Border Collies

[Clyde]

I find it interesting when people say that they know BC whose coats grew back nicely. Every BC I have seen that has been clipped has grown a horrible coat back, totally different from a normal coat.

I think the difference is some people just don't know the difference IYKWIM. I have first time clients come in and straight away I comment that their dog has been clipped off before. Their owners are surprised that I can tell and say they can't tell at all. Often though, they struggle to maintain the coats from here on in as they matt so much more easily. Common one is border collies where other groomers shave their bums off. Drives me mental.

I even remember here on this forum swearing black and blue that shaving double coats made no difference. Over the past ten or so years Ive certainly learned to eat those words!

I shaved one of my MAremmas last year thinking she won't live long enough for the regrowth so a wrecked coat wouldn't matter. Boy do I regret it now, I will do it again soon as her coat is just so crap now. Extra thick and matty down the sides and thin down her back.

[benshiva]

I make the comments i do based on more than 20 years living and learning about the breed in questions. I NEVER make comments on breeds I do not know intimately but I WILL on this breed. I stand by my comment that I personally would never shave a Border Collie unless absolutely necessary and I wouldn't do it for the sake of keeping them cool. I would if there was a worry about ticks, grass seeds etc.

I also don't give a toss if other people do or they don't. Their dog, they can do what they like, but the question was asked so I answered

[pie]

The border collies I know who have been shaved have a kind of curly woolly thick coat afterwards, where as the unclipped ones I know have a silkier coat.

With regards to keeping them cool, most double coated breeds I know seem to cope with the heat better than my two who are single short coated - mine have zero insulation against heat (or cold)

Your dogs are beautiful Amurryka :)

[ness]

Kenz had to be clipped for knee surgery and her coat on that side hasn't grown back any differently to the coat on the non shaved side. I wouldn't be clipping/shaving a BC by choice though.

[JulesP]

I make the comments i do based on more than 20 years living and learning about the breed in questions. I NEVER make comments on breeds I do not know intimately but I WILL on this breed. I stand by my comment that I personally would never shave a Border Collie unless absolutely necessary and I wouldn't do it for the sake of keeping them cool. I would if there was a worry about ticks, grass seeds etc.

I also don't give a toss if other people do or they don't. Their dog, they can do what they like, but the question was asked so I answered

Same. Plus I was a dog groomer and had the 'joy' of having to groom dogs that had been previously clipped.

[winpara]

I have clipped easily a dozen Border Collies (usually with either a #7F blade = 4mm or a #5F blade = 6mm) all have grown their coats back just fine and no worse (but on two occasions it was better!) to what it was like pre-clipping. I have even shown two different dogs (both entire males) after they had been clipped the previous summer and both coats was better (and straighter) than ever.

It is good for a laugh for a week or so afterwards until you get used to the new look too ;) In my experience I have found desexing can do much worse things to the coat than clipping.

The important thing to remember is that just because they are clipped doesn't mean you dont have to brush them, that is still important and will give the coat the best chance of growing back normally. I think most of the problem coats after clipping has to do with lazy owners who don't brush the dog full stop (hence needing to clip as they are too matted to groom out comfortably). If you don't maintain the coat then it will be awful whether it has been clipped previously or not IMO. I have had BC's in boarding who have been totally matted to the skin and yes I strongly recommend their owners clip the dog 3 times a year. At least the poor dog is more comfortable than when its legs are matted together or skin infected from going swimming and not drying properly due to matting.

The other thing I have found is that the best time to clip them is when they are shedding the most coat, just before the new one starts regrowing or otherwise once the new coat is fully through after shedding. The worst look comes when you clip off a half grown coat and it takes the longest to return to normal as you need to go through 1.5 coat cycles instead of .5-1.

Oh and I used to be anti-clipping too until I did a couple of my own and now am 100% for it if it is the right thing for owner and dog.

Photos below are of one of my boys. First image in full coat at almost 3 years, totally clipped off at 10 years, 10 months post clipping and lastly 2 years post clipping.

[Amurryka10]

I have clipped easily a dozen Border Collies (usually with either a #7F blade = 4mm or a #5F blade = 6mm) all have grown their coats back just fine and no worse (but on two occasions it was better!) to what it was like pre-clipping. I have even shown two different dogs (both entire males) after they had been clipped the previous summer and both coats was better (and straighter) than ever.

It is good for a laugh for a week or so afterwards until you get used to the new look too ;) In my experience I have found desexing can do much worse things to the coat than clipping.

The important thing to remember is that just because they are clipped doesn't mean you dont have to brush them, that is still important and will give the coat the best chance of growing back normally. I think most of the problem coats after clipping has to do with lazy owners who don't brush the dog full stop (hence needing to clip as they are too matted to groom out comfortably). If you don't maintain the coat then it will be awful whether it has been clipped previously or not IMO. I have had BC's in boarding who have been totally matted to the skin and yes I strongly recommend their owners clip the dog 3 times a year. At least the poor dog is more comfortable than when its legs are matted together or skin infected from going swimming and not drying properly due to matting.

The other thing I have found is that the best time to clip them is when they are shedding the most coat, just before the new one starts regrowing or otherwise once the new coat is fully through after shedding. The worst look comes when you clip off a half grown coat and it takes the longest to return to normal as you need to go through 1.5 coat cycles instead of .5-1.

Oh and I used to be anti-clipping too until I did a couple of my own and now am 100% for it if it is the right thing for owner and dog.

Photos below are of one of my boys. First image in full coat at almost 3 years, totally clipped off at 10 years, 10 months post clipping and lastly 2 years post clipping.

Wow, amazing coat! My brown one has a crazy curly coat naturally.. I think they're adorable, not sure if they're desirable for the breed. The black and white one has quite a sleek coat... His is very easy to manage. Was going to clip him so they could both look stupid together haha

Decided against it now though, I think they'll be ok, they have been in the past:)

[Mystiqview]

I understand the point regarding to paralysis ticks, dam water etc as I have all the same here. I live on acerage.

I have a large dam, and when it has been dry for awhile it does get manky and smelly. I just hose them off and let them drip dry or throw then in the hydrobath. I also live in very high paralysis tick area. I also have grass seads (in particular wild oats)

My dogs are checked twice daily or ticks. It is just something you have to do. A good pin brush is good for getting a lot of seeds out. Likewise a good slicker brush.

I have three plastic clam shells where the dogs can keep cool during the summer months. I have found this is good. It is filled with dam water as are solely on tanks.

I don't clip. I have been a groomer and I have noticed on a lot of BC's the coats do not grow back the same. They are coarser, wiry in texture. I have also found and had said from customers who have had their BC's clipped they felt their dogs were not cooler after a clip than when they were before the clip.

I have done the "lifestyle" clip on customers. Basically it runs along the nipple line as previously described. When the dog stands, you cannot tell that the dog has been clipped.

I have had my thick coated black and white bcs out there in the middle of the day sunbaking in the middle of summer. If they were THAT effected by the heat/sun etc, they would not be out there sunbaking.

Look at investing in a hydrobath. Even a 2nd hand one. I have found a regular bath does help coat condition and even now after buying a $3500 Savel one, by the time I wash my dogs (I have four)a total of 140 times (or each dog 35 times), I have made my money back (Based on mobile contractor washing my dogs at $25 per dog. You can pick up a good second hand one from anywhere from $500 to $1500.

[OSoSwift]

I find it interesting when people say that they know BC whose coats grew back nicely. Every BC I have seen that has been clipped has grown a horrible coat back, totally different from a normal coat.

Well either they do or don't. My BIL has one with a nice coat and one with a bloody horrible coat. It was horrible before it was clipped off, but is the same since he started clipping it at around 6 years of age. The one with the good coat has a good coat after his coat as grown out. I have also groomed some that have had coats that never recovered after clipping, problem is you don't know until you do it. I wouldn't clip mine off, but many do and like it that way.

[LizT]

Just a PERSONAL observation with all breeds that are "shaved/clipped" short. I think being a neuter factors strongly in a coated breed and has a lot to contribute to the coat not growing back as nicely as it could. I believe it takes far longer for the hair cycle of fall out and regrowth to occur and in the meantime the clipped hair that is continuing to grow doesn't look too crash hot. So the owners tend to re-clip, and therefore the full cycle of molt and new hair regrowth never occurs. Clipping can create a cycle of poor coat.

Edited November 16, 2013 by LizT

[Diva]

Just a PERSONAL observation with all breeds that are "shaved/clipped" short. I think being a neuter factors strongly in a coated breed and has a lot to contribute to the coat not growing back as nicely as it could. I believe it takes far longer for the hair cycle of fall out and regrowth to occur and in the meantime the clipped hair that is continuing to grow doesn't look too crash hot. So the owners tend to re-clip, and therefore the full cycle of molt and new hair regrowth never occurs. Clipping can create a cycle of poor coat.

Agree re neutering effect on coat, my one neutered female Borzoi changed coat texture quite a lot, from silky to woolly. A when she had a serious operation requiring an epidural, the shaved injection site took 8 months to grow back.

[BC Crazy]

Yes I agree I noticed a big change in Sonny's coat after being neutered.It thickened up considerably & it's not as silky/straight as it was previously.

[JulesP]

Someone asked if I had clipped Amber today! She has just dropped her coat and does look rather naked.

[dancinbcs]

I just saw a photo on FB of a BC in Canada that has been clipped off but still has about an inch of coat all over with the head, tail and legs feathers left alone. He actually looked pretty good. He is desexed and grew a huge coat the owners cannot cope with so the breeder clipped him off for them. It wouldn't make him any cooler, wouldn't help with ticks but he wouldn't need as much brushing. The downside is that he would now have to be clipped off like this all the time as the coat will just get thicker and thicker. Personally I just would have given them a good grooming lesson and and advised them to get the right tools for the job. Desexed Borders often have awful "woolly" textured coats that are a lot harder to groom than the entire dogs but with the right tools and technique they are still not really a difficult breed to groom.

[BC Crazy]

Yes Dancinbcs, Sonny has got very woolly pants especially. I use a Coat King once every 2 to 3 months or so to thin them out & a rake at least once a week to keep them half decent. He is thoroughly brushed daily which also helps :)

[BCPuppy]

Interesting thread.

I am constantly fighting with my OH about clipping Marlin. She has a very full coat, neck, bum, pants and back are very wooly. She also hates being groomed, this time of year I trim her belly, underarms and pants fairly short, rake weekly and coat king monthly, usually costs me heaps of treats each session :D . I also use thinning scissors on the rest of her. Somehow she still looks like a woolly sheep. :) Luckily we only have bush ticks to worry about.

She swims everyday and looks like she has dreadies when wet, most people think she is overweight until they see her wet! She copes well with the heat (north WA), and never refuses a trip to the beach, usually reminds me about now it is beach time!

I have told OH if he clips her he will be in charge of grooming in future, that is enought to put him off. But I would clip if I thought she was stressing, although I dread to think what sort of job I would do, no groomer for several hundred k's here!