When To Desex

[Mum to Emma]

I'm sure this subject will have been discussed many times before however I was surprised to hear that a friend has been told by his vet (well respected, known to many dol'ers) that his puppy - a mini schnauzer - should ideallly not be desexed until around 18 months of age. This seems far too late for me. His previous mini schnauzer had problems with aggression and marking around the house, and we are trying to avoid a repeat scenario. But the vet said that later castration is the latest recommendation for the long term term health of the dog.

I have always understood that later castration is better for large breeds but am surprised that this vet has recommended waiting so long for a small dog (there are obviously no plans to breed from this dog).

Any comments?

[Crisovar]

The Vet would be right :) Training will fix the problems. Castration certainly isn't a miracle fix for all things dog.

[Sandra777]

Love this vet.

Marking and dominance have nothing to do with testicles :)

[dragonwoman]

I'm sure this subject will have been discussed many times before however I was surprised to hear that a friend has been told by his vet (well respected, known to many dol'ers) that his puppy - a mini schnauzer - should ideallly not be desexed until around 18 months of age. This seems far too late for me. His previous mini schnauzer had problems with aggression and marking around the house, and we are trying to avoid a repeat scenario. But the vet said that later castration is the latest recommendation for the long term term health of the dog.

I have always understood that later castration is better for large breeds but am surprised that this vet has recommended waiting so long for a small dog (there are obviously no plans to breed from this dog).

Any comments?

Enlightened vet!!

[dogmatic]

It does sound like a good vet - more concerned about the long-term health of the animal rather than other issues which may be able to be managed. I would be interested to find out where those health recommendations came from.

Regarding aggression, the Australian Veterinary Association has a report acknowledging that aggression (specifically dog biting) is a complex affair. The AVA notes that

Entire (undesexed) dogs are 2.6 times more likely to bite than those that are spayed or neutered (desexed)

citing studies as recent as 2008.

Here's the report: Dangerous dogs – a sensible solution

Edited November 12, 2013 by dogmatic

[Crisovar]

Untrained badly managed dogs would be right at the top of the list in the bite stats. Seriously if desexing the dog earlier makes you feel better then do it, but it is no substitute for training and management.

[The Spotted Devil]

It does sound like a good vet - more concerned about the long-term health of the animal rather than other issues which may be able to be managed. I would be interested to find out where those health recommendations came from.

Regarding aggression, the Australian Veterinary Association has a report acknowledging that aggression (specifically dog biting) is a complex affair. The AVA notes that

Entire (undesexed) dogs are 2.6 times more likely to bite than those that are spayed or neutered (desexed)

citing studies as recent as 2008.

Here's the report: Dangerous dogs – a sensible solution

Similar to shelter stats that list "entire" males being a risk factor for being picked up as strays. The problem is these are correlations NOT causation - thus it might be that the person who neuters their dog may also be more likely to keep it confined and train it - so it becomes an indication of responsible pet ownership and owner education rather than a cause of aggression or roaming.

[persephone]

Looks as if the owner may need to change his management style to avoid a repeat performance .. castrated dogs can still mark and show agression , too .

[Poodle wrangler]

Most councils require dogs to be registered by 6 months and is MUCH cheaper for a desexed vs. entire dog.

RSPCA desex around 18 weeks, according to our local vet nurses.

Think it's probably more an issue with bones for larger breeds.

Early desexing produces slightly taller dogs.

Some think those normal hormones are important for normal growth.

Have read about it referring mostly to bone growth in larger breeds who are more at risk of hip dysplasia and other grwth-development joint disorders.

Possible impact on joint disorders (esp. agility dogs)?

[Starkehre]

Love this vet.

Marking and dominance have nothing to do with testicles :)

[Alyosha]

Love this vet.

Marking and dominance have nothing to do with testicles :)

I can't agree with this. Many dogs that are desexed prior to sexual maturity never commence marking - both dogs and bitches.

Desexing needs to be done at the best time for the owner, whilst still considering health implications. I would never recommend late desexing to someone who may have legal troubles because of it (some councils require non breeding dogs to be done after 6 months of age, and dog owning permits can rely on it). Lilewise I would never recommend waiting to someone who had doubts about keeping their dog or bitch separate from other entires with a potential for accidental breeding.

Everything can be done in moderation.

[Florise]

Most councils require dogs to be registered by 6 months and is MUCH cheaper for a desexed vs. entire dog.

Councils also give the cheaper rate for microchipped dogs. My desexed and entire dogs all cost the same for council reg.

[Alyosha]

Yep. In NSW they are over $150 to register undesexed (it might even be closer to $200?), or $40 if desexed or owned by a registered breeder. For some owners that means a whole lot. And by law they must be registered after 6 months of age.

[Florise]

Love this vet.

Marking and dominance have nothing to do with testicles :)

I can't agree with this. Many dogs that are desexed prior to sexual maturity never commence marking - both dogs and bitches.

When I read comments like this it makes me wonder why the only entire dog in my pack is the most submissive, he does not mark inside, and marks outside no more than my desexed (at 6 months) boy.

[Alyosha]

Which comment? There are two very different ones above... ?

[dogmatic]

Yep. In NSW they are over $150 to register undesexed (it might even be closer to $200?), or $40 if desexed or owned by a registered breeder. For some owners that means a whole lot. And by law they must be registered after 6 months of age.

Yes. From memory, that's about right. I have always had a problem with it though. In effect, the councils are coercing people to have their dogs desexed before six months. In practice, the council is unlikely to go after the owner of an unregistered six month old - desexed or not, and my understanding is that an owner needs to be given 28 days notice anyway.

It's a one-off fee that lasts the life time of the dog. My issue is that if an owner believes it is better for the dog to be desexed later, they are not given a choice. I would like to see an option of paying the higher fee for an un-desexed dog at six months, then getting a refund for the difference when the dog is desexed at a later date.

[Kavik]

I haven't desexed Nitro yet - want to wait til he matures, and then we'll decide.

When I registered him with council I was asked so many times was he desexed, show desexing certificate etc. Got a bit frustrated by the end of it all. Had to explain to several different people more than once that he was not desexed, that I know it is more expensive to register him etc. Same thing when he had to have some baby teeth out that had not come out on their own, the vet and nurse asked me more than once whether I wanted him desexed at the same time. Would be refreshing not to have people ask you all the time!

[Yonjuro]

Yep. In NSW they are over $150 to register undesexed (it might even be closer to $200?), or $40 if desexed or owned by a registered breeder. For some owners that means a whole lot. And by law they must be registered after 6 months of age.

Yes. From memory, that's about right. I have always had a problem with it though. In effect, the councils are coercing people to have their dogs desexed before six months. In practice, the council is unlikely to go after the owner of an unregistered six month old - desexed or not, and my understanding is that an owner needs to be given 28 days notice anyway.

It's a one-off fee that lasts the life time of the dog. My issue is that if an owner believes it is better for the dog to be desexed later, they are not given a choice. I would like to see an option of paying the higher fee for an un-desexed dog at six months, then getting a refund for the difference when the dog is desexed at a later date.

This is what they do in my local council

[Lasareina]

Yep. In NSW they are over $150 to register undesexed (it might even be closer to $200?), or $40 if desexed or owned by a registered breeder. For some owners that means a whole lot. And by law they must be registered after 6 months of age.

Yes. From memory, that's about right. I have always had a problem with it though. In effect, the councils are coercing people to have their dogs desexed before six months. In practice, the council is unlikely to go after the owner of an unregistered six month old - desexed or not, and my understanding is that an owner needs to be given 28 days notice anyway.

It's a one-off fee that lasts the life time of the dog. My issue is that if an owner believes it is better for the dog to be desexed later, they are not given a choice. I would like to see an option of paying the higher fee for an un-desexed dog at six months, then getting a refund for the difference when the dog is desexed at a later date.

I thought you had to pay the council rego every year at the higher rate? or is my council ripping us off :laugh:

My boy is coming up to 12 months old now and I want to get him desexed soon... I know that staffies are supposed to keep growing till about 2 though. I think Hunter has pretty much reached is full height, but he will probably fill out further and get a bit stockier. I am concerned that getting him desexed to early will affect his musculature. At the moment he is all rippling muscles and I don't want him to lose that condition. Am I right in thinking the hormaone changes after he is desexed will have a large effect on this, or is it more a case of just keeping him excercised?

[dogmatic]

I thought you had to pay the council rego every year at the higher rate? or is my council ripping us off :laugh:

Hope not; else I owe a couple of grand. I remember many years ago there was an annual registration fee. There are differences between councils and differences between states.

Yonjuro mentioned above that the council gives a refund for the difference between un-desexed and desexed. Some councils are more enlightened than others.