Guest hankodie Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 (edited) This has been bugging me for a while so I'll try to make this as short as possible, but i apologise if this turns into a ramble. OK so, I take my pup Hank to a weekly obedience class run by my trainer. The one that go to happens to have quite a number of puppies attending. I met a lady there with a 4 month old British bulldog. The first thing I noticed about this dog was that it's breathing was really, really horrible. It struggled to walk without wheezing/rasping and you could hear it even if you were standing quite a distance away. It was also quite tiny for it's age. Anyway, a couple of classes later this lady overheard my trainer joke to me about my other dog, who happens to be a french bulldog. The lady then asked me if I had ever experienced any breathing issues with my frenchie as she was worried about her bulldog's loud breathing. I replied that no, she was quite a good breather in general and has no problems in that area apart from snoring sometimes, etc. I told the lady nicely "if you're worried about your pup's breathing I'd get the vet to check her soft palate as well as for general breathing issues, you can get this done when you desex her as she'll be under anaesthetic" the lady then replied "oh, I'm not planning to desex her". I thought hmmm... OK. I'll try not to be quick to judge, maybe she's not desexing for health reasons, etc. Anyway as the class progressed I overhear her saying to another person there that she was planning on breeding her puppy (presumably with her male bulldog that I also overheard her mentioning to the trainer.... this male bulldog has severe aggression issues with other dogs/people from what she said.... on top of that the puppy was already showing signs of aggression towards the other dogs in the class but I digress) Due to last minute busy plans I have been absent from the last couple of classes and the course ended. There is a follow up course that starts up on Tuesday which we will be attending. My question is, on the off chance that I see this lady again, is there anything that I could say to her to make her think twice about breeding from her puppy? I obviously don't want to put her off by being rude but I don't know if I can say anything to her without her taking offence. I don't know anything about her either, whether she is planning her first litter or if she's had litters before this (). I'm assuming there is some level of care there if she is making the effort to take her puppy to obedience class. I've never owned a BB but I have known and come across quite a few and though some occasionally do breathe audibly (like some brachy dogs are prone to) this puppy's breathing was just beyond awful. It really just sounded like it was struggling. Plus on top of that, the lady mentioned that the puppy had been very sick from 8 weeks onwards with a myriad of health issues. All in all, it just sounds like a very bad situation Edited November 10, 2013 by hankodie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Want my honest advice? Save your breath. The only think I'd even think of mentioning is that she'll need to have money put aside for a caesarian birth as few BBs whelp naturally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 (edited) I attended a caesarean once for a british bulldog, turned out she'd probably been in labour for quite a few days and the pups had died and were actually beginning to rot in her belly, it was revolting, they were lucky they took their bitch home after that. Maybe casually ask her if she's started saving yet? When she asks what for mention the necessary caesarean and the $60 a tin puppy milk, etc Edited November 10, 2013 by kelpiecuddles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Agree with HW and KC. $$$ talks when morals, appeals to emotion and reason etc do not. What you think of the person should be saved for bitching over a white wine with friends. What you say to the person should be guided by whether or not you think there is a genuine chance that you will help improve the situation of dogs in their care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hankodie Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 While you're probably right HW and SSM, I can't help but think there is some level of care there as she seemed genuinely interested in fixing her pup's behavioural issues and training. I didn't think to mention the breeding costs - that's a good idea. Also not to sound too dramatic but after observing this puppy for a few weeks I'd be very surprised if it survived a pregnancy. I know I'm probably a little naive about it all, it's just the first time I've come across a situation like this. I was pretty shocked she mentioned breeding after having quite a lengthy conversation with me about all the health issues her puppy had Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 In that case maybe the next time she mentions the pups health issues you could say something along the lines of "Hey, I've been thinking, do you think she'll be OK with a pregnancy with her breathing and stuff?" Let her join the dots herself, you'll get far further letting her draw her own conclusions and make the decision for herself than you will pressuring her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hankodie Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 In that case maybe the next time she mentions the pups health issues you could say something along the lines of "Hey, I've been thinking, do you think she'll be OK with a pregnancy with her breathing and stuff?" Let her join the dots herself, you'll get far further letting her draw her own conclusions and make the decision for herself than you will pressuring her. I think I'll go that route KC as well as try and casually mention the breeding costs (though not sure how well I can do casual :laugh: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Are you sure she's actually planning to breed? Some people simply choose not to desex their dogs for their own personal beliefs or reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Anyway as the class progressed I overhear her saying to another person there that she was planning on breeding her puppy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Anyway as the class progressed I overhear her saying to another person there that she was planning on breeding her puppy Oh, sorry, not sure how I missed that line! :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hankodie Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Anyway as the class progressed I overhear her saying to another person there that she was planning on breeding her puppy Oh, sorry, not sure how I missed that line! :laugh: Eep sorry my fault, I'm so bad at condensing my posts and getting to the point!! Should've made that more clear :laugh: yes, she's planning to breed, despite all the health issues. I didn't say anything as I thought it may have been for the reasons you mentioned but sadly not the case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Anyway as the class progressed I overhear her saying to another person there that she was planning on breeding her puppy Oh, sorry, not sure how I missed that line! :laugh: Eep sorry my fault, I'm so bad at condensing my posts and getting to the point!! Should've made that more clear :laugh: yes, she's planning to breed, despite all the health issues. I didn't say anything as I thought it may have been for the reasons you mentioned but sadly not the case Maybe - don't worry too much about it - she's going to have to find a good breeder practice anyhow, hopefully if the dog has to have airway reconstructive surgery the vet will set her straight. Can only hope. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Another way to start a conversation about it could be to say, "You must be looking forward to breeding?" When she (of course) says yes you can reply "Gosh, I couldn't do it, I'd be so worried about my dog the whole time with all the things that go wrong, plus it's just so expensive ya know..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hankodie Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Anyway as the class progressed I overhear her saying to another person there that she was planning on breeding her puppy Oh, sorry, not sure how I missed that line! :laugh: Eep sorry my fault, I'm so bad at condensing my posts and getting to the point!! Should've made that more clear :laugh: yes, she's planning to breed, despite all the health issues. I didn't say anything as I thought it may have been for the reasons you mentioned but sadly not the case Maybe - don't worry too much about it - she's going to have to find a good breeder practice anyhow, hopefully if the dog has to have airway reconstructive surgery the vet will set her straight. Can only hope. :p Good point! Hope she goes to the same vet I do because I know they'd try and set her straight. It just made me sad, I wanted to pull an Ace Ventura and dog-nap it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Save your breath. They will not be told, and they know more than you do anyhow. They have no concern for the welfare of the bitch, or the pockets of the future owners, or the health of any pups they breed. I would just like to throw rocks at them, but my lawyer tells me that is not a good idea :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannibalgoldfish Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Bring up current laws and legal things... Bring up how dogs are a 'product' and if any pups end up with a genetic condition that isn't tested by the breeder in contract(this works in breeder health testing) Or serious health defect that might cause problems they might be liable. To be honest, you don't have to be read up and savy on the breed. You just need to say people can be sued if certain health issues (add breed specific)aren't tested for.. Sue and liable seem to be good words to bring byb back to earth.... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Nuh, doesn't work. I tried it with one. She was selling to a pet shop, so it was not her responsibility, and after a couple of years, the paperwork wouldn't be available. And, indeed this is the case. 99% of pet shops will not reveal the breeder's details. Many of the people doing this have no idea of what the health issues are, and less intention of testing for them. and that includes registered byb. I sold some people a pair of puppies, and advised them to avoid the the local registered byb. Unfortunately, the sil had already purchased from the byb. My puppies - now 2 years - have had no health problems, the one from the byb has many - nothing too specific, but more inclined to have the runs, snuffles, allergies etc. Nothing they could sue for, but still expensive and annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CellarDoor Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I haven't read all the responses, so sorry if it just rehashes what people say :) In my uni classes we learnt, just very briefly, about how to change a persons opinion/behaviour on things like smoking etc. it was basically to let them draw their own conclusion. You could start with something like, so I heard you talking about wanting to breed your dogs? I'm curious as to why you want to breed? And continue on with this 'why'. So, if its to let their kids see the miracle of life, ask why you think kids should see that, what would happen if they saw their pet dog die, or why don't they simply youtube it (I imagine its pretty goss). Or if its for money - why do you think breeding will result in more money, even if it did last time they are lots of things that can go wrong. Really get to the nitty gritty, often people haven't really stopped to consider everything, and this can make them think. I think each situation is different, but to honestly try and change an opinion it's good to remain in a positive, 'supporting' mood. Hope it all goes well if you see them again :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 You could approach it by asking how much she paid for her pup. BBs are usually anywhere from $2500 upwards. I'd then make of comment about how cute they are but costly. Then explain why they're so expensive. Explain how they usually have small litters, require caesarians and generally rack up huge costs and so to try and break even breeders have to charge a premium figure. Let her know that she may also lose her bitch. Now whilst problems and costs with breeding is not the sole reason for their high cost, it is a good portion of the reason. Perhaps she'll begin to feel her back pocket. I'm sure she is a loving owner and cares or her dog. Let's hope that she can look forward enough to realise she probably has chosen the wrong breed to jump into breeding with. She possibly looked at the price tag of bb puppies and thought she could earn a few dollars to supplement her income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hankodie Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I'm sure she is a loving owner and cares or her dog. Let's hope that she can look forward enough to realise she probably has chosen the wrong breed to jump into breeding with. She possibly looked at the price tag of bb puppies and thought she could earn a few dollars to supplement her income. Yup, that was definitely my first thought. She brought her son along too to some of the classes and he obviously adored the puppy and they participated in the training activities etc. I don't think she's a terrible owner, maybe just terribly misinformed :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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