Any Snake-bite 1st-aid For Dogs?

[dogmatic]

Summertime! We had an encounter with a brown snake in the middle of last summer, and another encounter early this summer. Avoidance is a good recommendation, but even the backyard is not immune.

I've read about snake-bite first-aid treatment for humans. The pressure immobilisation technique is the current recommendation.

http://www.avru.org/firstaid/firstaid_pib.html

The suggestion is to send someone else for help if available. Keep the patient calm. It also seems important not to clean the wound so that traces of venom can be used to identify the snake.

The pressure immobilisation technique might not be practical in most cases of snake-bites on dogs.

Would the best advice be to just forget everything and get the dog to the vets without delay. Nothing else can be done?

EDIT: Removed "I've also read that keeping the bite-site above the heart might be helpful." Think I have that topsy-turvy ... not sure.

Edited November 10, 2013 by dogmatic

[persephone]

keep the dog calm & cool ..and yes, vet asap. That's all I know.

[kelpiecuddles]

I carry a bandage and would pressure immobilise if possible, if not possible I'd pick my dog up and carry her as far as humanly possible to avoid her having to walk(given that we are more likely to encounter one on a walk away from home) and get her to the car and straight to the vet.

[Yonjuro]

Apparently a bush remedy (so to speak) is to inject 20ml vitamin C (high quality injectable ascorbic acid) under the skin. Supposedly this has been done successfully by numerous farmers and the like.

I personally would always try to get my dog to a vet for an anti-venom but if you are right off the beaten track and there is no other choice then I would try the Vitamin C. It is inexpensive and probably worth investing in a 50ml jar and a couple of syringes if you are taking your dog bush in snake season.

Disclaimer - My info if purely anecdotal, look it up on the net and never try unless it is an absolute last resort and there is no way you can get to a vet.

[Alyosha]

Injectable vitamin C - given for whatever reason - should be given intra-muscular and not under the skin.

I suppose it's a moot point if you are injecting as an attempt to save a dog's life... But it will abscess if given under the skin, and is better absorbed intra-muscular. It is quite a thick liquid and a painful injection. If the animal doesn't protest about it be worried. If they start to, they may be improving...

[Yonjuro]

Injectable vitamin C - given for whatever reason - should be given intra-muscular and not under the skin.

I suppose it's a moot point if you are injecting as an attempt to save a dog's life... But it will abscess if given under the skin, and is better absorbed intra-muscular. It is quite a thick liquid and a painful injection. If the animal doesn't protest about it be worried. If they start to, they may be improving...

Thanks for that, what you say makes sense - I appreciate your clarification :)

[Jed]

Yes, intramuscular for Vit C. Otherwise, you can syringe it into the mouth, up beside the cheek and the gum. It will absorb quite quickly from there .... and you will avoid all the drama of injecting it. And unless the animal is quite sick, there will be trouble.

I would also bandage the bite if possible - on my way to the vet.

[Guest Maeby Fünke]

I read online somewhere that vitamin c lessons the effectiveness of the anti-venom... Has anyone heard of this? If it's true you would have to decide between going to a vet (for an injection of anti-venom) or injecting the vitamin c.

How effective is anti-venom anyway? Does it usually save them?

[Guest Maeby Fünke]

Snakes & Domestic Pets

Pets regularly come into contact with Snakes, unfortunately it is not always in the best circumstances and can result in a snake bite. It is important to know what to do if your pet is bitten by a snake and how to prevent this from happening if possible.

If your dog or cat receives a snake bite, the best treatment is similar to that of a human:

Compression Bandage: The use of a compression bandage is paramount; beginning at the bite site and continuing down the limb and then back to the top.

Lock out the joints and bandage as firmly as that for a sprain.

Splint the limb: A Splint is recommended to prevent peristaltic return; venom is transported around the body through the lymphatic system not the blood stream. This is controlled by muscle movement, the use of a compression bandage and a splint reduces muscle movement and slows the progression of the venom.

Remain calm and keep the patient still.

Carry patient to the car and get to the vet as soon as possible.

Application of ice packs can be an advantage to slow muscle movement and subsequent transportation of venom through the lymphatic system.

There have been cases of the administering of Vitamin C in dogs; according to a leading Venom Researcher of Melbourne University Vitamin C has no effect on Snake envenomation. It is recommended by CSL limited (the company which manufactures and supplies anti-venom and Snake Venom Detection Kits) that patients are placed on an IV hydration drip as soon as possible to assist in flushing out the kidneys; particularly in cases of Brown Snake Bite.

Please Note: this should never be attempted by an inexperienced person and is only recommended to be applied by qualified persons. This type of treatment should never be applied to humans unless by a health care professional.

Interestingly enough if anti-venom is administered an average of 91% of cats survive snake bite compared to 75% of dogs. If anti-venom is not administered only 66% of cats survive and 31% of dogs.

Of course the best treatment for Snake Bite is prevention in the first place. This can be achieved by the following methods:

Solid Fence Lines: this is by far the first line of defence. A good solid fence constructed of either colourbond or wood which is all the way to the ground with no gaps beneath or in between palings is recommended. If gaps are prevalent, fill these with solid compacted dirt, or mortar. Another option is the application of a 5mm gauge mesh called 'Snake and Mouse Mesh' which is available from most leading hardware stores. If this mesh is surrounding the property is adequately installed and is able to be dug into the ground approximately 3-5cm large snakes will not be able to penetrate through.

Short Grass: snakes travel through long grass hunting for food and adequate hiding spots. Keeping grass short will remove the hiding places for snakes to move through.

Sensible Gardens: Snakes will hide in overgrown gardens and ground hugging plants where their food also often can be found. Removal of these types of plants removes the places snakes can hide.

Remove Excess Rubbish: Left over building materials, sheets of tin, old plant pots, rubbish piles and wood piles are great places for snakes and their food to hide.

Bait for Rodents: This removes a food source of most larger Australian Venomous Snakes. Snakes such as Brown Snakes (all types) and large Tiger Snakes will be attracted to Mice and Rats. Laying Baits or setting traps for these is essential. Bear in mind that these should be set well away from where a pet may be able to get into and digest any baits. Most commercially available baits do not affect any animal which digests the target species, i.e. if a dog eats a baited rat the dog shouldnt be affected by the bait. Check the label or with the manufacturer prior to laying baits.

Snake Deterrents: There are a lot of products on the market which claim to deter snakes. To date these have shown limited to no effect on dettering snakes. Snakes have no ears and only feel limited vibrations so any sound emitting device could not work. Some trials have been done on scents and in a lot of cases these do not work at all. Use of Naphthalene, Lavender Oil, Diesel and similar items are old wives tails and have limited or no effect.

Around Dog Runs or Kennels:

Keep water bowls elevated off the ground

Build kennels directly on the ground with no gaps where a snake could potentially get underneath; alternatively have kennels elevated at least 15cm off the ground. Snakes prefer very small spaces to hide in; keeping kennels this far from the ground will reduce the chances of snakes wanting to stay beneath the kennel.

Remove any uneaten food; this will reduce the chances of inviting rodents in.

Remove any rubbish from inside runs or surrounding areas

Dont keep any wood piles near dog runs

Store foods in airtight rodent proof containers

Use solid floors in runs such as concrete and have these raised up along the sides as well, around two bricks high. This will stop any rodents from entering runs as well as snakes down low.

Attach snake and mouse mesh to the outside of existing mesh walls. Try to dig this in approximately 3 - 5cm. Snakes will look for the easiest way through something. If they come across a solid barrier and have no reason to go over it, they will go around.

Keep in mind that snakes will only stay in an area if there is ample food, water and shelter. Snakes do unfortunately bite domestic pets, however this is usually under duress, i.e. if a dog is harassing it, a cat is playing with it, it is stood on by a horse/sheep/goat or cattle. The most common place a dog is bitten is on the nose; larger animals on the leg as they accidentally stand on them in the paddocks.

It is quite common for an unexplained animal death to be blamed on a snake; this is not always the case and without a blood test being run specifically to detect snake bite, it is impractical and illogical to assume it is a snake bite.

http://www.snakehandler.com.au/?p=snakes-and-domestic-pets

Edited November 10, 2013 by Maeby Fünke

[OSoSwift]

I have heard many things you can do. I would only do anything if it didn't interfere with my getting the dog to the vet ASAP. Every second, every minute is precious and can make a big difference to how advanced the symptoms are.

My advice, get someone to call ahead and get your dog in the car and get to the vet as quickly as possible. They will be waiting for you, essentially throw the dog at them and let them save them. Taking time to bandage, inject etc is precious time that may be the difference survival or death.

The best thing a person can do is think well before hand if there are any instances that you would choose not to treat i.e if the dog is completely collapsed and having difficulty maintaining it's own airway, the dog is purple and breathing but barely etc etc. It is very difficult to be trying to go through all these decisions when under duress.

I have all my vets numbers in my mobile so I can call out of hours, hear who is on call but not have to write, remember the number and call ASAP and get in the car.

[dogmatic]

Thanks everyone.

I have heard about vitamin C. After our first close encounter, I asked the vet and she shook her head. I might be wrong, but I think the idea came from horses bitten by snakes years ago. As you can imagine, there would be many situations where it would be impossible to rush a horse to the vet, especially if the horse is the only form of transport for miles around. I just try to avoid taking dogs too far away from civilisation during the the summer. If I did go far away, I'd consider taking a Vitamin C kit. I don't think it could do any harm, even in the larger doses.

Carrying a broad bandage for the pressure immobilisation technique is not a bad idea - for dog or human. I don't think it would take too long to apply - that is if the dog is bitten on a limb (which, apparently, is not usually the case). I wonder if it's worth trying to bandage a dog's muzzle?

The only good thing I've read about brown snakes is that the first strike is not always venomous. That's what I read. I definitely wouldn't wait around to see if it's true.

[OSoSwift]

I believe from quite a bit of research is that many people think Vit C has worked when in fact the bite was a dry bite. Adult snakes can choose to envenomate and generally won't waste venom on something they can't eat. That of course changes if their life is on the line.

The small baby snakes are just as toxic as adults and generally more agressive as they need to be to survive and tend to envenonmate first time every time.

[kelpiecuddles]

Carrying a broad bandage for the pressure immobilisation technique is not a bad idea - for dog or human. I don't think it would take too long to apply - that is if the dog is bitten on a limb (which, apparently, is not usually the case). I wonder if it's worth trying to bandage a dog's muzzle?

the application of a pressure immobilization bandage adds a substantial amount of valuable time to allow you to get to help. As a bonus it also forces you to sit still for a minute or so to apply it, therefore giving yourself enough time to calm your nerves, think rationally about the best way to get out of where you are and who can help you. In the case of a dog where it is unlikely that the bite will occur on a limb the best course of action is to carry the dog if possible and to keep yourself and your dog calm. If possible call someone close by to bring their car to meet you.

[Steve]

Treat the bite the same as you do for a human - wrap in a compression bandage - this increases the time frame by miles and mark the spot where the bite is with a waterproof pen etc - vitamin C doesnt work . A bandage, keeping them still and getting them to the vet for anti venom does. There is some new suggestion to use nitroglycerine [used for angina] but Ive only given it a glance and havent gone too far into that research yet to see if its a real option.

We sell a snake bite kit - which clips onto your belt.

[OSoSwift]

A bandage if you know where the bit is is good, but inevitably is on the face or you can't find it in fur. So bandage if you can but don't waste time looking for puncture marks if you can't see them readily or didn't see the dog get bitten.

[dancinbcs]

Vitamin C administered intravenously definitely buys you quite a bit of time to get to the vet. It does destroy muscle tissue and is painful if given into a muscle or under skin and I have no idea how effective it would be. When one of my dogs was having intravenous Vit C for cancer treatment, the needle moved one day and he reacted straight away to the pain from it getting into his muscles. My vets teach their more rural clients, who are too far from a vet to get there fast, how to give the injection intravenously. They have trialled it on dogs who's owners cannot afford or do not want the antivenene and it does buy anything from an hour to several hours depending on many variables but it will not ultimately save a dog that has received a decent bite. Also keep in mind that dogs do not always collapse straight away after being bitten. With brown snakes it can take up to 24 hours for them to show symptoms and with red bellies, up to about 3 days. So always keep a close eye on any dog who you think may have been bitten and keep them quiet.