Any Advice? (urgent Health Issue)

[Pom]

I know there's a health section, but posting here in the hope more people will see it and someone might have an idea.

Our boy Griffen (7yr old Dogue De Bordeaux) isn't doing well. He's been at the Vet for 2 days now and they are at a loss to find the problem. 4 experienced vets have looked over him and are struggling for ideas so at this point are happy to receive suggestions if anyone has experienced something like this. As the owner of the clinic said "Fresh eyes might see something we missed".

On Saturday, he was fine. Playful, happy, eating well and generally appeared 100% normal. We didn't leave the house, there were no "bangs" or "crashes" to signify an accident, no evidence of "baiting" (other dog is fine and would have been first to anything. Griffen doesn't eat without being told by us it's ok), no signs of lose bowels or vomiting, no visible snake/spider/tic bites that we (or the vet) could see.

Over the next 2 days the following symptoms set in and have only got worse:

*No interest in food at all.

*No interest in water.

*Lethargic and reluctant to get up and come over.

*Appears dazed/confused and walking aimlessly around the room.

*No barking, howling, yelping or any other noises since Sunday.

Complete blood tests have all come back fine (except a slightly elevated cholesterol level). X-Rays all came back clear. The physical checks have come up with 3 things:

*Low body temp

*Slower than normal heart rate

*Slight lump on head that doesn't appear to be sore and nothing abnormal showed on X-Rays.

He's been on an IV drip the entire time he's been there, has had painkillers and anti-inflammatory injections and antibiotics to try and treat the symptoms while they seek a cause. All these have had little to no effect on him. They will continue with these things over the weekend. Next step is an MRI scan.

In the meantime, if anyone has any suggestions, has seen something similar in other dogs or heard of something like it, please feel free to let us know. There might be something so obvious that it's easily overlooked.

Thanks.

[mixeduppup]

Maybe consider an MRI or CT scan. He may have a brain injury or something neurological.

Edited November 8, 2013 by mixeduppup

[Salukifan]

Vestibular incident/attack?

Is he nauseous or been given anti nausea medication?

Edited November 8, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[Staffyluv]

Sorry about Griffen, I hope he is on the mend soon..

Have they ruled out any brain type injury - the dazed and confused thing just rang a bell with an old dog in the family years ago..

I guess I would be doing the MRI

All the best

[Staff'n'Toller]

Probably time for an opinion from an internal medicine specialist.

Not sure where you are exactly - but CARE Collingwood and Advanced Vet Care are open 7 days.

[Pom]

Neurological is what they are focusing on now, an MRI is the next step.

No nausea at all, stool sample checked out fine too.

My first fear was a paralysis tick or something similar, but they haven't found a sign of one and said his symptoms weren't "severe" enough for a paralysis tick.

Our other dog is lost without him home. She's spent most of the time looking out the window waiting for him to return. Hopefully they can find a cause for the symptoms, otherwise the plan is to just keep treating the symptoms and hope that things improve.

[persephone]

Stroke or something?

sounds a big worry , I am sorry , and hope he improves over the weekend .

[Salukifan]

Only other thing i could think of was IMHA but I assume they've checked his red cell count? PCV is OK?

[Pom]

Only other thing i could think of was IMHA but I assume they've checked his red cell count? PCV is OK?

Yeah, they said all the tests came back normal aside from a slightly elevated cholesterol level.

It's a worry when you have 4 vet's with decades of experience scratching their heads. They thought he would at least respond to the anti-inflammatory and antibiotics or perk up from the IV and painkillers, but they said he's pretty much exactly as he was when dropped off. They'll keep that up for the weekend to give it a chance to help, then try for an MRI as early as possible. Will look into an Internal specialist if nothing improves over the weekend.

[mixeduppup]

a sign of Cushings is high cholesterol. Have they ruled out auto immune diseases?

[Pom]

From what they have said, they haven't really ruled out much aside from blatantly obvious causes. His symptoms aren't bad enough in one direction to rule out something in the other direction. For example, vestibular disease was suggested to the vet but Griffen isn't vomiting or circling and antibiotics aren't having an affect yet. On the other hand, the other symptons fit and he did have an ear infection 2 months ago.

[Rappie]

How low is his heart rate and temperature? Any change in his respiratory pattern or abnormalities on a neurologic exam? Has his blood pressure been measured?

I would be suspicious of a neurological cause - and if there are behavioral changes then it is suggestive of a brain lesion whether that be from trauma (even severe concussion with the lump on the head), infection, inflammation, ischaemia, neoplasia etc. An MRI and possibly a CSF tap would be required to identify those things and if treatment is having no effect then I would get the opinion of an internal medicine specialist to try to narrow it down sooner rather than later.

Edit to add: A thorough clinical exam should provide more clues about whether vestibular syndrome is likely ie whether there is nystagmus (eye flicking) or strabismus (change in eye position), change in postural tone and reflexes in addition to the obvious signs like a head tilt and circling.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Rappie

[DobieMum]

Having a Dogue go through it, check his prostate

[k9angel]

Sorry to hear your boy is unwell.

It's an awful feeling when they are sick and you don't know what's wrong.

It's interesting you mention that he had an ear infection 2 months ago though, as that was one of my first thoughts when I read your OP, that maybe he has a bad tooth or an ear infection.

When he had the ear infection, did it clear up ok? I wonder if there is a link between that infection and his current condition?

All the best with him.

I hope you get some answers (and good news) soon.

[FrodofromAus]

I think you need to get to a specialist vet asap as they have internal medicine specialists. There is a lot of experience with your vets and they are struggling. The lump on the head worries me. Was the lump on the head there before or did that also appear at the same time as the other symptoms? Good luck with it as it is awful for you with not knowing a diagnosis. Hope your dog is ok.

[Rascalmyshadow]

The symptoms you are describing are not exactly the same but sound similar to something we experienced with our afghan, the main difference she would scream if moved in the wrong way. We ended up losing her to what the vets think was some form of meningitis.

I hope you get answers and your boy recovers quickly.

[Florise]

*Low body temp

*Slower than normal heart rate

Has he had thyroid function tests done?

Edited November 8, 2013 by Florise

[Poodle wrangler]

Best wishes for your dog.

Low temp can suggest infection, but then blood results should also be abnormal.

Maintaining temp and heart rate are pretty basic neurological function (hypothalmus), so if it is neurological, sounds ominous.

With the MRI, do dogs need to be still?

Will he need to be anaesthetised? (am thinking anaesthetic is very risky due to age and inability to maintain temperature)

How much does a MRI cost?

I recently lost our 13 year old mini poodle to a suspected brain tumour.

He could have had an MRI to confirm, but instead the vet used clinical judgement, 2nd opinion and a trial of medication to see if it helped.

i.e. Vet said: Only thing to cause the abnormal behaviour and seizures was trauma (e.g. car accident- NOPE), infection (excluded with blood tests, no temperature changes) and brain tumour.

Dog's eye was bulging slightly on one side, suggesting a tumour was likely and I knew no recent head trauma.

Sadly, he was so distressed even with medication, that there was no choice but to PTS.

So much harder when it's NOT so clear-cut!

Sorry to be blunt, but is 7 years elderly in a Dogue?

It's well worth discussing with vets where any MRI / further tests will lead?

If he did have a tumour, would you even consider chemo etc. (with side effects etc.)

Do you need a definite diagnosis for future breeding plans etc.?

Will a diagnosis help your dog directly i.e. can the result help them get him eating, drinking and seeming OK behaviour-wise again?

If the MRI shows nothing, does that help treat him?

There is no point in doing risky, expensive tests if they cannot help your dog.

Vets will often want to know so they have a definitive diagnosis (don't blame them), but that doesn't mean it helps your dog.

Remember it's you and the dog who pay the price: Both $$ and risks to dog's health from doing tests themselves.

If you can afford the very high costs, the vet's are at a dead end and you and really need to know (for yourself) that's different.

If not, then perhaps it's best to try to do what they can- based on his clinical condition- and if no improvement, sadly PTS with lots of love.

Best wishes for you all

I really hope they find something treatable.

[denali]

I was recently working at a vet here in brisbane that had a dog come in with symptoms like that, they also suggested IMHA or cancer.

They dosed him with intravenous vitamin C and (maybe vitamin K too?) but he completely picked up.

ETA: through later scans it was found out that the dog was in fact riddled with cancer. Almost every organ in his body.. poor boy.

Edited November 9, 2013 by denali

[wuffles]

My boy acted exactly like this when he had internal bleeding from a tumour, but obviously his blood results were out (PCV, liver and red count). He would stand around looking dazed/confused, not in any pain but just symptoms from 'not feeling right'. I hope they can find something soon.