Breeds To Be Wary Of

[Salukifan]

Hey, it's all in the training now isn't it... ;)

I prefer to use the term "bull type terriers", I think it represents the breeds I mean a lot better than just bull type dogs.

Agree. "Bull breeds" describes a range of breeds bred for completely different purposes. Bullmastiffs, Bulldogs and SBTs are going to be very different behaviourally.

[blakkjackal]

Hey, it's all in the training now isn't it... ;)

I prefer to use the term "bull type terriers", I think it represents the breeds I mean a lot better than just bull type dogs.

Agree. "Bull breeds" describes a range of breeds bred for completely different purposes. Bullmastiffs, Bulldogs and SBTs are going to be very different behaviourally.

Then we add another good word, "molossers" and we've pretty much covered the spectrum.

[corrie]

I also stress the need to keep YOUR dog safe and never, never ever assume anything.

The world is there for all dog owners to share, good and bad, well trained and not well trained, well bred and not well bred, responsible owners and totally irresponsible owners.

If your dog is in danger then you need to protect your dog from that danger ... it is your responsibility as an owner.

Blaming the breed never works, but it is a good idea to learn what the different breeds are best at doing - a dog that is good at chasing and crunching is not always the type that you want around your dog, so it is OK to discriminate.

Take your puppy to dog training, get involved where there is safety, and let them be a confident and happy pup in a safe environment.

Souff, this is DOL statement of the year for me. It is something that everyone of us, not just airlock, should be mindful of at all times!

And, from memory, pretty much the only statement from Souff this year. DOL needs more Souff posts :)

I had to do a double take on the date to make sure it was a current topic when I saw Souff had posted.

[OSoSwift]

I also stress the need to keep YOUR dog safe and never, never ever assume anything.

The world is there for all dog owners to share, good and bad, well trained and not well trained, well bred and not well bred, responsible owners and totally irresponsible owners.

If your dog is in danger then you need to protect your dog from that danger ... it is your responsibility as an owner.

Blaming the breed never works, but it is a good idea to learn what the different breeds are best at doing - a dog that is good at chasing and crunching is not always the type that you want around your dog, so it is OK to discriminate.

Take your puppy to dog training, get involved where there is safety, and let them be a confident and happy pup in a safe environment.

Souff, this is DOL statement of the year for me. It is something that everyone of us, not just airlock, should be mindful of at all times!

And, from memory, pretty much the only statement from Souff this year. DOL needs more Souff posts :)

I had to do a double take on the date to make sure it was a current topic when I saw Souff had posted.

I saw a Souff post the other day and said hey it's you, good to see you back :) And I agree :)

[OSoSwift]

Pretty much any dog of any breed that runs towards me and mine is treated with the utmost suspicion. The larger they are the more energetic I am at keeping them well away from mine!

[dogmatic]

Hey, it's all in the training now isn't it... ;)

I prefer to use the term "bull type terriers", I think it represents the breeds I mean a lot better than just bull type dogs.

Agree. "Bull breeds" describes a range of breeds bred for completely different purposes. Bullmastiffs, Bulldogs and SBTs are going to be very different behaviourally.

The discussion has become very centred on a particular collection of dogs - "bull" something-or-others. Could someone please be more specific with a list of breeds? I haven't a clue, and I'd fall of my chair if someone suggested a snuffly old British Bulldog was somehow related to a Bull Terrier.

We lived next-door to a couple who got a puppy the same time we did. As it grew up, it looked increasingly like the American Pit Bull Terrier featured on wikipedia; same ears, same head-shape, same colouration, same size, etc:

The council ranger must have thought otherwise and simply gave the neighbours a notice to register it. What breed(s) of dog could it have been?

It spent most of it's first year chained to a car-port post. Then the neighbours moved away. I actually liked the dog and tried to care for it. When my young GSD was in season, she was the one who almost managed to tunnel under the paling fence. Next time she was in season, she would bark toward the car-port where the neighbour's dog had lived even though they'd been gone for months. However, when I learnt what a "pit" was, I bought a sturdy pick handle and left it by the back door. Call me prejudiced (but not too abusively)!

Also, a regular at the dog-park has a lovely "bull arab" - similar, except a little taller and leaner, slightly wire-haired and slightly bearded. It's toward the submissive end of the scale, but still a playful puppy. What is a "bull arab"?

Thanks to anyone for the clarity, because this thread has become filled with "bull" discussions. ;)

Edited November 9, 2013 by dogmatic

[mixeduppup]

Bullarabs don't have long hair, they are a smooth coated hunting type. They aren't an actual breed per say but they are a definite type. I have a bullarab girl and she is a huge sook. She's 40kgs at 9 mths old, about as tall as a greyhound and very stocky.

That dog 'looks' like a pit type dog but without knowing its history it's impossible to say what breed/s it is, it could be kelpie cross sbt, viszla cross etc for all we know.

ETA- Super gorgeous looking dog!

Edited November 9, 2013 by mixeduppup

[dogmatic]

Oops. That photo is actually the one from wikipedia, not the neighbours' dog.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull

Thanks for the info about "bull arabs". The one I know, I wouldn't call long-coat, but not short smooth coat either - short, slightly soft, wiry coat and a slight beard. She'd be less than thirty kg at 9 months. Must be a different type of dog.

Edited November 9, 2013 by dogmatic

[mixeduppup]

Oops. That photo is actually the one from wikipedia, not the neighbours' dog.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull

Thanks for the info about "bull arabs". The one I know, I wouldn't call long-coat, but not short smooth coat either - short, slightly soft, wiry coat and a slight beard. She'd be less than thirty kg at 9 months. Must be a different type of dog.

would most likely be a hunting mix of some description :)

And I would say that dog is definitely a pitbull then if it's the dog on the wiki pitbull page :laugh:

Edited November 9, 2013 by mixeduppup

[dogmatic]

Yeah. Right. :) I was wondering about the neighbour's dog. No photo sorry. I did get quite familiar with it, and it looked like the one in the photo from wikipedia. Not exactly the same colour though. It was a worry to most people in the neighbourhood - more because of its treatment and a bit of nuisance barking. The council ranger came around, saw the dog and simply issued a notice to register it. The neighbours disappeared before the notice expired and I have no idea what happened afterward. What dogs look very similar to American Pit Bulls? That's all I wanted to know.

[kelpiecuddles]

American Staffordshire Bull terrier most likely Dogmatic

[dogmatic]

American Staffordshire Bull terrier most likely Dogmatic

Hmmm. Possibly. I just googled images of "American Staffordshire Bull Terrier" and the only one that stood out was one that turned out to be a Pit Pull (less its ears!). http://www.staffy-bull-terrier.com/american_pitbull_terrier_photos

Maybe the neighbours had a cross. Thanks.

[kelpiecuddles]

There is always the other option that it was a pit bull, just because it's a pit bull doesn't make it a killing machine. I've met some absolutely lovely pit bulls and I've met some absolutely appauling ferocious little fluffy lap dogs. Just because it is a breed that has a 'reputation' in the general public doesn't make it automatically a bad dog.

[dogmatic]

I'm in NSW. I thought the rangers were trained to recognise American Pit Bulls. Aren't they listed as banned in NSW?

I was actually hoping to steer back to on-topic and away from breed-specific legislation. Oh Well.

[Rozzie]

Oh please. Are you suggesting that all breeds have the same predisposition to prey drive, territorial aggression, protectiveness, the same levels of reactivity and the same bite inhibition and thresholds?

OK... Oh please right back at you.

A dog is what we want it to be regardless of what it's been originally bred for.

Consider nature vs nurture and re-visit the original question posed in this thread.

So if I want my coolie to stop his interest in herding he'll do it? Can I get my shih tzu to herd instead of my coolie?

I got a Lhasa to herd the goats. He was much better than the Kelpie.

[cali]

the safest thing is to never assume any dog is friendly. I have a pretty and cute dog that is on no planet friendly to strangers or strange dogs, drives me nuts that people just assume she's friendly because shes not a "aggressive type". she lunges at people "oh look, she must be the friendliest, she wants to say hi!!" umm no, she wants to remove your limbs.... I put her on a tight leash behind me every time I see people or people with dogs because people are dumb and judge by breed type.

[WreckitWhippet]

American Staffordshire Bull terrier most likely Dogmatic

It's "American Staffordshire Terrier" the very least you can do when imparting your knowledge is to get the breed right.

[WreckitWhippet]

So this begs the question. Are there some behaviours that can be quelled by raising the dog a certain way or will the congenital behaviours always be there? Say a trotting horse was bred to race but raised as a trail horse, would that horse still naturally want to trot or is that a an inherent but equally learned behaviour? The horse was born with the genes and ability to trot but will it do it naturally if raised not to? I guess I'm asking is inheriting dog aggression enough to warrant even the best trained/handled dog being watched like a hawk? If pushed to their threshold will they naturally lean to dog aggression? Interested on views.

You also need to consider how widespread and how strong the genes are in the breed. Given that dog fighting was outlawed in 1835 in England, the motivation to breed for fighting dogs has been reduced. Not gone, cause legislation didn't stop dog fighting entirely, and fighting remained legal much longer in some places outside England; but reduced. This leaves 170 years where fighting was not a primary focus. I'd say this is analogous to asking if the Olde English sheepdog was going to have herding instincts, despite being raised as a pet. Some of 'em will. Some of 'em won't. Some in-between, which will be influenced by training. With Labradors, we can make a retriever out of almost any pup, but with some of them you have to start early and work hard. For others it's natural. And you get some who won't look at a tennis ball, but given a bird, there's no stopping them.

I don't think this applicable to the SBT, from my years of experience owning, exhibiting, breeding and being around others, I have come across very few who will not back down if another dog starts something. This is the reason why they require careful management when you have more than one of them. This is the reason why I suggest owners do not take them to dog parks". This is the reason why I have suggested in this thread that they are a breed to be wary of, especially in group situations.

As Haredown has rightly pointed out, many are great at playing on their own terms, they are rough, play hard and fast and that's great while everyone playing the game is playing by their rules. It can turn from playing nicely to a fight in a nanosecond.

I have seen less outright aggression and swinging off the end of the lead in the SBT over the years but I don't kid myself for one minutes that " some of them will" and "some of the won't" react with aggression when another dog has a go at them, or tells them off and the SBT takes exception to it. Having raised many and been vey careful over the years to "neutralise" my dogs when it comes to other dogs, I don't kid myself for a second that they won't finish what someone else starts and I find that to be the norm in the breed, there may be less of the outright "gameness" in the breed but they are still on the whole reactive. Obviously I wasn't around when dog fighting was considered an acceptable sport to measure the reactiveness of the breed, I'm going to assume that it has been watered down over the years but it's still there none the less and people need to be aware of this.

[juice]

I would say unlike joe public, we ( dol)choose our breed based on other attributes other than looks , so why is it conveinient (sp) to deny those traits when we want to?

I don't own BC, Husky , Beagle, etc etc because i don't like their traits, not their looks.

Lets call a spade a spade and stop pussyfooting around, i am not at all offended that my breed of choice has those capabilities, being aware of them is the important part.

[melzawelza]

I'm in NSW. I thought the rangers were trained to recognise American Pit Bulls. Aren't they listed as banned in NSW?

Nope, no training whatsoever. You can't train people to recognise APBT anyway -study after study has shown that visual breed ID is unreliable when you're looking at an unknown dog. Studies have also shown that animal professionals (Rangers, dog trainers, rescuers, shelter workers, breeders etc etc) not only fail miserably at visually ID-ing dogs of unknown heritage, they also can't even agree with each other on what the dog is.

The dog next door to you may have been a pure bred APBT (fairly unlikely) or it may have been a crossed APBT or simply a mixed breed dog which came out with the fairly generic appearance of an APBT.

They aren't banned, they're restricted. However the dog has to be either chipped as a pure bred APBT or identified as one through the official channels before they are subject to the restrictions.

Edited November 9, 2013 by melzawelza