Corgis

[Jed]

I understand that the UK Kennel Club has placed Corgis on the endangered breeds list. Only 214 pups were born in Britian last year.

this was discussed here some years ago, and it was felt by Corgi breeders that numbers would fall when docking was banned, as the tails hang down, and lie on the ground behind the dog, causing numerous injuries.

Sad to see this prediction come to fruition.

[Roova]

Then again it might just be breeders themselves not liking the look of the breed with tails and breeding less!

There's an article about this in the daily mail which has one 30 year Pembroke breeder citing that as the reason.

Daily mail article

The article also said the Queens first corgi Susan was used to produce many pups, some of which were mated with Dachshunds to produce Dorgi's, of which the Queen still has two of now! That can't be setting the best example for purebred corgis, or purebred anything you'd think?

It also says people are starting to realise there are 210 breeds of dogs and are doing more research to find their choice for a dog.

[~Anne~]

Docking may have stopped some breeders from breeding, not the public buying necessarily, but it would only have been a small part of the overall reduction in my opinion.

Let's face it, the royal family themselves would have turned people off them as well and this would also be a factor. They're not hip and the public opinion of them dropped dramatically during the Diana years. As superficial as what it is, we all know that people will buy things according to what's in vogue. Dogs have long been an item that people choose for image.

Edited November 5, 2013 by ~Anne~

[Steve]

Very little to do with docking in my opinion here n Australia. No Docking came in around 2004 and the numbers had started dropping way before then.

If we are going to look at what impacted a drop in numbers bred might be an idea to work out what happened in 1998/99 because thats when most working dog breeds dropped - and radically dropped in That year [99] GSD numbers dropped by almost 2000.

Its impacted by breeders who have limited the gene pool "protecting their bloodline" - not enough put out for breeding - too many on limited register and laws and regs which don't give a crap about what is best for the species or best practice which further limit how many can be bred etc.

In 2012 only 5 working dog breeds out of 34 had more puppies registered than Corgis - nothing to do with docking - If thats not a screaming red light about all breeds here then I don't know what is.

[Steve]

Docking may have stopped some breeders from breeding, not the public buying necessarily, but it would only have been a small part of the overall reduction in my opinion.

Let's face it, the royal family themselves would have turned people off them as well and this would also be a factor. They're not hip and the public opinion of them dropped dramatically during the Diana years. As superficial as what it is, we all know that people will buy things according to what's in vogue. Dogs have long been an item that people choose for image.

Except in 1999 only 15 breeds had their registrations increased and they only increased by a handful .If this really were about what is popular then I would expect to see major fluctuations with some breed numbers going up a lot through some periods and and other's going down in a trend that didnt fit other breeds.

If it were true that less Corgis are bred because there is less demand and they are less popular then it should be easier for someone who wants one to get one and there are thousands of people who want a registered one including me who cant get one.

[~Anne~]

No, I didn't say it was about what is popular necessarily. Perhaps I didn't write it very clearly.

I was saying that the numbers would also have been affected by their 'status' of vogue or not vogue with this breed particularly.

I don't believe that there is any one single answer. I think it is a combination of things that is causing the numbers of this breed, and many others, to decline.

I've pointed out the stats showing the rapid decline of purebred numbers in many threads over the years. I used to keep the stats on numbers but I don't think I have them anymore.

[Steve]

No, I didn't say it was about what is popular necessarily. Perhaps I didn't write it very clearly.

I was saying that the numbers would also have been affected by their 'status' of vogue or not vogue with this breed particularly.

I don't believe that there is any one single answer. I think it is a combination of things that is causing the numbers of this breed, and many others, to decline.

I've pointed out the stats showing the rapid decline of purebred numbers in many threads over the years. I used to keep the stats on numbers but I don't think I have them anymore.

O.K. except that from my perspective there hasn't been a period where Corgis were less popular - my Mum bred them for over 50 years and I bred them for a decade - in my opinion the breeding of them has been manipulated and hugely limited with the breeders being very good at ensuring few were able to be used for breeding .There has always been a huge demand for them and there still is. One puppy farm has them in Victoria and they are all spoken for before they hit the ground. Its not that people dont want them it is that we cant get them.

[Katdogs]

I reckon (without checking the old 'fact' sheets) that the Gnome's influence was starting to build then, especially about not having working breeds in the backyard. Also when didthe GSD breeders start getting tougher about hip displaysia and temperament?

Edited November 5, 2013 by Katdogs

[~Anne~]

Without doing a lot of research, both qualitative and quantitative, I'm not not sure any of us could make any accurate assumptions.

We can only offer opinions.

[Steve]

Its tempting to say the limited register may have impacted a fair bit over time - except that before the limited register breeders only had to register dogs that were going to be used for breeding or showing - I've never sold a puppy without papers and my first litter was in 78 - so all of my pups pre limited register went out being able to be used for breeding registered dogs. But most breeders didnt issue papers they didnt need to so the numbers have dropped even more than the stats show because number pre limited register never really showed how many were being bred.

I agree with Anne that many things have impacted but I dont think banning docking should be held as the main reason.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Steve

[Steve]

I reckon (without checking the old 'fact' sheets) that the Gnome's influence was starting to build then, especially about not having working breeds in the backyard. Also when didthe GSD breeders start getting tougher about hip displaysia and temperament?

Doubt we can blame that either the stats show a massive drop in GSD numbers since 86 Its a consistent drop and no one period stands out as being "it"

[Aziah]

I understand that the UK Kennel Club has placed Corgis on the endangered breeds list. Only 214 pups were born in Britian last year.

this was discussed here some years ago, and it was felt by Corgi breeders that numbers would fall when docking was banned, as the tails hang down, and lie on the ground behind the dog, causing numerous injuries.

Sad to see this prediction come to fruition.

Which is certainly not the case :)

[Katdogs]

Now I've looked up the road tests and Burke was quite complimentary about GSD and Cardigan Corgis. Hmmm...

[Aziah]

I receive far more enquries for puppies than I could ever fill...in the past month alone I've had enough enquiries for at least 2 litters. That's not saying that all those people would have been suitable owners but the enquiries are there...the numbers are not.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Aziah

[fbaudry]

Funny you should mention that Aziah; I've noticed a few around the Eastern suburbs including at our training club. I must say a full tail can look glorious on a Pembroke!

Sadly too, there was a Cardigan pup for sale at the pet shop in Westfield Bondi Junction yesterday. It might be a sign they're back in fashion

[Kanae]

This only takes into account UK litters, not worldwide. The corgi is definitely not losing popularity in America.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Kanae

[Jed]

Have no idea, simply reported with was published and accredited to the UK KC

And I believe it was Steve who, some years ago, published photos here of Corgis with their tails dragging on the ground? Are you now saying this does not happen?

[Steve]

When the tail docking laws first came in I had a corgi who had a serious tail injury and I believed at the time - still do - that it was because her tail did drag on the ground when she was in certain modes .It was the worst pain Ive ever seen a dog have to suffer through when she had to have her tail amputated as an adult - agony. However, that's the only one Ive heard of which has had an injury since - thats not to say there hasnt been others but no one will ever know because no stats have ever been kept and I dont believe that the banning of docking has impacted on the numbers.

In Australia The numbers were already dropping before the ban and they have dropped at about the same rate as numerous breeds which were never banned.

If the lack of numbers of dogs in a breed bred or the ratio of dogs bred now to then are going to be attributed to tail docking they need some stats to back what they say up and the stats show exactly the opposite .The numbers of Maremma bred in that period of time has dropped by 75% - 150 Australia wide bred in 2012. Shetland sheep dog has dropped by 50% - Beagles have dropped by over 50% - Corgis have only dropped by about 20%

You might be able to show cause of banning with some breeds such as Aussie Terriers and Boxers but its a hard push when so many [most other breeds] which have never been docked have radically reduced in numbers bred.

In Australia last year 417 WP Corgis were bred and if in fact that puts them on the endangered breeds list here then there are lots of breeds which are in bigger trouble.

[Roova]

Have no idea, simply reported with was published and accredited to the UK KC

And I believe it was Steve who, some years ago, published photos here of Corgis with their tails dragging on the ground? Are you now saying this does not happen?

I read this and can't help but wonder - we chose to create a breed with such short legs it's tail drags on the ground, and then we blame any injuries on the fact we can't remove its tail rather than poor design on our behalf. Wouldn't a sensible solution be to breed for lengthened legs (to lift the tail from the ground) if the dogs health is being affected? I'm sure that won't happen because the stubby legged look is liked, but this type of issue makes me wonder about the human races thought process and priorities at times

[Aziah]

Have no idea, simply reported with was published and accredited to the UK KC

And I believe it was Steve who, some years ago, published photos here of Corgis with their tails dragging on the ground? Are you now saying this does not happen?

The only time I see tails on the ground at home is when they are at rest, when they are busy playing and running their tails are up!

Their tail in essence is very like that of a German Shepherd however it is carried in a myriad of ways from curled over the back like a Spitz to level off the topline...

Carriage IME is also determined by temperament and mood.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Aziah