Training Class Etiquette

[espinay2]

I can perhaps look at this issue from both (all?) sides of the fence as one who instructs classes, has had a dog who was the subject of an attack by another dog, and who has owned a dog that was a definite problem around other dogs. From my own point of view the main thing that sticks out for me in your original post is that the person in question did not obey the direction of the class instructor when asked to put the dog back on lead.

Personally if someone in a class I was taking disobeyed an instruction such as that that was made by me as the instructor, they would be asked to leave the class (committee member or not). As an instructor I HAVE to be in control and have the welfare of all handlers and dogs paramount in my mind. Certainly other instructors are welcome in my class if they are using it for socialisation, but they still need to abide by my requirements as the person in control of the class. In my class, the buck stops with me.

The other issue that springs to mind was what the dog was doing while the owner was in the clubhouse. Was the dog tethered? And if so, why were other dogs coming so close? Is there any instruction to members in the club about basic safety such as staying away from tethered dogs? Or what about the position of palces to tether a dog? Are they safely out of the way to allow 'traffic' to pass easily? If the dog was not tethered, then why not? Why was it allowed to run free unsupervised? Again, more club management issues.

Certainly I would take the issue to the committee or at least to your instructor. Perhaps present your concerns about the dog being offlead in your class and your feelings on how it affects your ability to relax and work effectively with your dog, how disruptive it is, safety concerns etc etc. Be polite and non accusing and perhaps ask what management practices are in place in the club for dealing with issues such as this. Incidents like this will happen, but a well run club should have rules and policies in place for managing dogs (and owners) which present a problem for other club members and will be proactive in educating members on basic ettiquette and safety management. Safety management is a paramount issue when you have a gathering of dogs together such as in a club situation and needs to be monitored constantly. After all, many of the dogs may be there because they DO have problems which their owners are trying to address. Instructors and officials need to be proactive and keep an active eye out for potential problems as well as addressing problems when they occur.

JMHO

[dogdayz]

The dog was tethered outside for the first incident. The problem is dogs are not allowed in the building where you go to pay your training fee, sign in or pick up newsletters, get a cup of coffee etc.

The dogs are tethered outside to rails and posts of the building. Obviously as most people arrive at similar times you get a general congregation. Have to admit this is the part i hate the most. I tether my dog as far as possible from the main group but others will be right at the door. Obviously the dog is out of your sight. Other people are way to relaxed at this point in my opinion, they have their dogs on loose leads and assume all dogs are freindly, let them get close - fine if its is controlled situation with both owners present but not if one is absent - to this point as i said in my earlier post she is not entirely at fault. personally i try to get there before the main rush and move away from the building once i have paid/signed in, but most dont. having said that in this particualr owners case she does not come alone and only one has to sign in, so one person could stay with the dog in reality - she must know it has a problem.

Dog was offlead in a class for the second incident.

Dog was on lead with accompanying person holding lead for the third incident.

Edited April 19, 2005 by dogdayz

[fido666]

Hi Dogdayz,

I once had a hand-reared pup who developed fear agression. At the time the club I was with seemed to fancy dog to dog crossovers at fast pace on lead. One day my dog reacted to another dog running past and lashed out catching the other dog on the ear. I was told by the instructor he could no longer attend class unless he was muzzled. Now I'm not excusing what he did but instead of helping me fix the problem they exiled him. At the time, I was on the committee, no favouritism was shown to me . I would do as others have suggested, put in a "concern" in writing to the committee, that way they can't ignore the issue. Even if your club is an incorporated body they still have a duty of care to ALL members and their dogs.

regards,

Corine

[Kavik]

Corine,

I'm sorry you had such a bad experience! In the five years I've had Zoe and the 4 I've been dealing with her dog aggression I've never been told I had to muzzle her or been banned from a club. Most clubs tend to downplay it and sometimes I feel like I am the only one taking it seriously. I've been tempted to muzzle her a few times just so people would keep their distance though! The club I am with at the moment have been the most helpful in dealing with her aggression, and understanding my frustration in how good she is otherwise.

[mersonmalinois]

i can also see that everyone at some point has to step up to offlead work.

No, actually they don't if they interfere with the rest of the students in the class.

I don't know what it means to be a "committee member", maybe an officer of the club?? Whatever the moniker means, that person should know better than to bring a dog into a training class that has aggression issues. It's not funny nor is it cute when that crap goes on. The other students come to class to train and have a positive experience with their dogs, not to have to worry about the antics of a dog that starts fights.

Sounds like this person needs to take private lessons until her dog can handle the class environment. I would be completely pissed off if I had paid to train in that class and had to deal with a sassy-assed dog picking on other dogs.

[fido666]

Hi Kavik,

It was only the one exercise he had problems with, he was not generally dog aggressive. I could never work out what caused the behaviour as I whelped him and reared him from day 1. He was not very well socialised as a baby because he had no motherly antibodies to protect him, I had to wait till he was fully immunised. I no longer attend that club, have not for many years, perhaps they have changed their protocols.

Mersonmalinois,

Most obediance clubs are run by volunteers which include the people on the Committee (the office bearers).

Sounds like this person needs to take private lessons until her dog can handle the class environment. I would be completely pissed off if I had paid to train in that class and had to deal with a sassy-assed dog picking on other dogs.

I agree with you on that one, I guess her reasoning is she has paid her membership and given up her time to help run the club so should be entitled to train there as well. I'm not condoning her stance, just understanding where it is coming from. The world ain't perfect sadly .

cheers,

Corine

[dogdayz]

I agree with MM to an extent, certainly my weim was not trustworthy due to fear problems after an attack on him, and i pulled him out of group obedience at that point and went solo to work on the behaviour problem. Once he returned to classes i have been careful to watch for any signs that he is stressed (so far all okay). I certainly never gave him opportunity to bite.

I will certainly raise it at the next lesson, Im certain if it was a bigger breed dog something would have been done, being small should not be an excuse.

i agree Fido muzzling the dog isnt a solution, i think most of what happened could be avoided if the owner showed more anticipation and dealt with the issue - unfortubnately I am not sure she sees an issue.

[mersonmalinois]

Most obediance clubs are run by volunteers which include the people on the Committee (the office bearers).

Sounds like this person needs to take private lessons until her dog can handle the class environment. I would be completely pissed off if I had paid to train in that class and had to deal with a sassy-assed dog picking on other dogs.

I agree with you on that one, I guess her reasoning is she has paid her membership and given up her time to help run the club so should be entitled to train there as well.

Hi, Corine,

Most obedience clubs here are run by volunteers also, but imvho, the club members and especially the committee members should lead by example.

Don't the non-club members taking classes pay for their sessions? Don't club members get a reduced rate on class fees compared to people off the street who want to train their dogs?

I wonder how the owner of the sassy dog would feel if her dog was f#*%ed with by another dog? The class should be a safe environment for all students and their dogs and definitely more so at the advanced levels of training.

It's no fun to go to a class and have an A$$hole dog that will mess up your dog's training. Not fair at all even if the woman is a committee member. She should know better than that.

Susie

[dogdayz]

Don't the non-club members taking classes pay for their sessions? Don't club members get a reduced rate on class fees compared to people off the street who want to train their dogs?

At the club in question everyone is required to pay the annual membership fee to participate, then each time you attend a lesson you pay a small daily fee on top, so in essence all are members and all are equal.

[mersonmalinois]

At the club in question everyone is required to pay the annual membership fee to participate, then each time you attend a lesson you pay a small daily fee on top, so in essence all are members and all are equal.

Equal unless a committee member's dog acts a fool in class...then that is acceptable??

[fido666]

At the club I attended we paid an annual membership and an additional fee for each dog we brought along. There was no fee for each class, you could come as often as you liked.

I am not defending the lady in question, merely trying to figure out her reasoning. Like I have siad before, it is not acceptable behaviour regardless of her position in the club. Not all club volunteers are like this.

cheers,

Corine

[Sparty]

Just as a matter of interest, has this behaviour now been adressed or something said??

[dogdayz]

I was at a tracking weekend so did not see what if anything happened this week. Last week there was no class due to the long weekend. Shall see next week, unless someone else knows.

[Maloo]

I am quiet sure I know who and what club you are talking about.

As these little dogs have approached me numerous times, so I try to avoid them.

And have to agree 100% with all the comments made so far.

There are numerous dogs, in levels they are not ready for.

I actually question some of the instructors ability to recognise "correct" work, such as loose leads etc.

And their ability to address inapproprate behaviour from dogs and mostly handlers!!!

I was in class on Sunday and left upset, as I felt my dog became quiet distressed due to other handlers manners.

One lady during the stays insisted on removing her dogs lead, even though her dog continued to break.

She handled the situation by firstly screaming loudly at the dog, then running fast AT the dog, and stomping her feet....????

I personally don't think this was appropriate, and since my dog was sitting close to hers in the stays, I was rather annoyed that the instructor did not, firstly tell her to put the dog back on lead as it clearly was not ready to be off lead, and secondly did not explain to her that not only was stomping at her dog inapproprate, but also very inconsiderate to the other handlers.

I don't think I will be returning to train at this club, as I am not prepared to put my dog in a position like this where she is clearly distressed at the end of class, due to others ignorance, for the sake of distraction training....???

Hope this doesn't sound rude, but I've been annoyed about it since Sunday.

[Sparty]

NO I dont think you are rude, i have a dog who is quite nervous and if some freak ran towards her stomping, even if the dog was next to her or one along it would distress her and put my training back we are not allowed to yell at our dogs even saying no loudly is frowned on during the stays as the instructor explains it is a class and we have to take into account other peoples dogs!!

Jen

[dogdayz]

One lady during the stays insisted on removing her dogs lead, even though her dog continued to break.

She handled the situation by firstly screaming loudly at the dog, then running fast AT the dog, and stomping her feet....????

One of my dogs would completely freak if next to that in the line up - breaking dogs are an expected distraction but not that.

yep, we are talking of the same club. Can you PM me the dog and class involved - if i go sunday i will drop mine down a class if necessary to avoid her. Am also looking at an alternative club to attend.

[Guest Tess32]

To someone whose never been to this club, it sounds rather awful.

Nat

[ninaandted]

I work for a not for profit organisation that is run by a Committee of volunteers and we have a huge volunteer program and it continually annoys me how people "forget" what volunteering means.

It is giving your time without reward.

Sure - the organisation and its members might recognise your hard work and give a volunteer a gift or thank you, but Committee members should never have the right to ignore the rules, get preferential treatment or attend any sessions for free, unless they are specifically requested to be there. If they do so, it can be considered by the Tax Department to be a Fringe Benefit and can be taxed accordingly and either the individual or the organisation has to pay it.

It is also a serious conflict of interest for a Committee member to be involved in any kind of incident like this, because presumably they are also provide the "discipline" in the club, including banning or preventing people from attending.

Being on a Committee can be a real drag and involves having standards much, much higher than the average member, but most Committee members are driven by their passion for their club, not the "perks" that come with it.

The Committee is accountable to the members, not the other way around.

She should be removed from the Committee immediately.

Sounds hard line but it is just good governance and risk management.

[Maloo]

dogdayz, I have PM'ed you...

Let me know if you get it, as I'm not very computer literate... hehe

[dogdayz]

Got it, thanks.