Livamol For Black Coats?

[minimax]

I need to start working on Boston's coat - I'd left it for a while as he developed a "racing stripe" down his back that went dark black and I thought it might expand and start to turn his whole coat black, but it hasn't. He's still a very odd black pug that isn't completely black :laugh:

His neck and butt are especially grey/brown and it's very noticeable when he's next to Max, as her coat is amazingly black and shiny and his is dull and flecked with random colours. I know people feed Livamol for dogs coats, and I used to use it for the horses but I'm wondering if it will bring out the brown instead of the black in his coat and if I should something more like Supplavet Colour-Max Black? I just can't find the ingredients of the Colour-Max and I'm not sure I want to feed something when I don't know what's in it.

[BC Crazy]

I don't know anything about Pugs minimax but could it be that Boston still has some 'old' coat that needs to be brushed out in order for his full new coat to come through. Maybe it's old puppy coat? I use a rake /Mars coat king to remove any dead coat. On a short haired dog I am unsure if these tools would be used Sorry not very much help :)

I would be interested to know more about that Colour Max Black supplement as my boy coat throws alot of red at times. Will be watching this thread with interest.

Edited November 4, 2013 by BC Crazy

[Maddy]

I use Livamol and have never had any issues with it. It darkens pigments, it won't put brown in there.

Although my first step would be to give the dog a very thorough grooming out with a Furminator- sometimes that brown rubbishy coat is just undercoat and can be removed.

[minimax]

He's brushed regularly with the furminator, and I could create a second dog with the amount that comes off him each time! He sheds like a ... well, like a pug so he's brushed often. I initially thought I could brush the colouring out but it doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Then over winter his coat got thicker and fluffier, so I thought when that dropped it might take some of the colour with it, but no. He's destined to be half fawn :laugh:

I've spoken to his breeder and she said he's got a worse version of his mothers coat, and hers started to grow out at around 2 and a half (he's 20 months now). She suggested livamol or Colour-Max if I wanted to try anything.

I meant to put a pic in my initial post but forgot to click attach, duh.

It shows the black racing stripe down his back and the messy grey/brown weird body colour.

[WreckitWhippet]

Does he come from a fawn on black mating ?

[minimax]

Does he come from a fawn on black mating ?

No, both his parents are black.

[Danois]

Lol my black dog is like this too - identical! Not dead coat and Livamol did not really help.

He's from a black x black mating and was jet black until he lost his puppy coat and then it did this.

[dancinbcs]

He looks to be the same colour as a seal Boston or Border Collie. This is believed to be caused by incomplete dominance or a modifier to the KB genes that should make a black dog a solid colour but sometimes they allow the A series of genes the dog has to show through. Seal is usually the sable pattern ayay showing partly through the black. Fawn pugs are actually sable genetically so the genes for fawn are there in all dogs but for it to show as fawn the dog has to be kyky. If it is KBKB or KBky the dogs should be black but sometimes they are seal. There is no genetic test for seal yet.

[Clyde]

Desexing can play a part too IMO. I wouldn't use the furminator too much either.

[~Anne~]

A friend of mine has a pug with the same coat colour. Her pug is about 9 now. She never 'grew out of it'.

As above, I think you'll find it's genetics.

I'm sure it's annoyingg though. I know I'd much rather a black with a glossy dark coat! :laugh:

[minimax]

Desexing can play a part too IMO. I wouldn't use the furminator too much either.

I did wonder that, but his desexed sister has the best coat out of the whole litter.

What's too much, in relation to the furminator?

[minimax]

A friend of mine has a pug with the same coat colour. Her pug is about 9 now. She never 'grew out of it'.

As above, I think you'll find it's genetics.

I'm sure it's annoyingg though. I know I'd much rather a black with a glossy dark coat! :laugh:

I have one with a jet black glossy coat, which just makes his stand out more! Funnily enough the one with the jet black shiny coat has a fawn mother so if anything I'd expect her to be the one with wonky colouring :laugh:

[TigerJack]

I have a little chihuahua with a racing stripe coat too. She is now 9 years old. She is a blue and tan so a recessive dilute colouration. She had a 'normal' looking puppy coat, same blue tone all over then as she grew her adult coat it only came in in a thin stripe down her back. Most of her body is still very short coat but more of a fluff than her head and spine area. Its like she has no topcoat. (Her brother, who is black and tan did not have this issue, his topcoat came in all over from very young.) At around 7 years of age, the racing stripe started getting a bit wider and now that she is 9 and a half, it is maybe 6cm wide (quite wide on a chi) and it is definitely normal topcoat, the fluffy undercoat is still there underneath. I have put it down to being something to do with the coat issues that can occur with dilute coloured dogs. I have seen a few blues that get alopecia or no real topcoats. It surprised me when it started growing wider at such a late age. At this rate, by the time she is about 12 she might have a full topcoat. The fawn points are all normal coat, not just undercoat.

[dragonwoman]

He's brushed regularly with the furminator, and I could create a second dog with the amount that comes off him each time! He sheds like a ... well, like a pug so he's brushed often. I initially thought I could brush the colouring out but it doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Then over winter his coat got thicker and fluffier, so I thought when that dropped it might take some of the colour with it, but no. He's destined to be half fawn :laugh:

I've spoken to his breeder and she said he's got a worse version of his mothers coat, and hers started to grow out at around 2 and a half (he's 20 months now). She suggested livamol or Colour-Max if I wanted to try anything.

I meant to put a pic in my initial post but forgot to click attach, duh.

It shows the black racing stripe down his back and the messy grey/brown weird body colour.

Never used a Furminator but do they actually cut coats? if so, it would be removing the black you need and exposing what you don't want?

[BC Crazy]

I am not a fan of Furminator's as they cut the top coat I believe which is what I certainly don't want to do. I prefer the Coat King as you lift their coat to use the Coat King to remove the under coat which helps promote new healthy growth.

Minimax, my BC male has a similar look about him at times. Not as obvious as Boston but certainly not as black as I would like him to be. I have tried Livermol with hm but he actually went threw more red in his coat if anything so I stopped using it.

Anyone tried that Colour-Max product. I can't seem to find any ingredient list on it either & I am reluctant to give it a try until I find out more about it.

[Alyosha]

In horses that colour/marking would be called "countershading" and is genetic.

If he has two black parents, he can still be a genetic "hybrid black" if there is fawn back further (I think...).

This page has some info on pug colour genetics: http://www.tantraspugs.com/pug-colour-genetics.asp

Edit - this one looks good too :): http://roxmarr.webs.com/pug-colours

Edited November 6, 2013 by Alyosha

[minimax]

There are fawns further back on both sides, and out of his litter of six there was one fawn, so that would make sense in my extremely basic understanding of genetics :laugh:

[Danois]

Not the best photo but it shows the racing strip down the spine and brown sides! I even spoke to the Dane expert on genetics in the US and she was baffled how a solid black puppy turns brown (and this happened before desexing).

[minimax]

Wow, he's very similar to Boston (size aside lol) with the reddy/brown especially on the flank.

[Clyde]

I think the coat kings are worse than the Furms. They really cut the under coat and you can feel it growing back spiky, it wrecked my Rotties coat - took a while to bounce back. You can thin the coat too much with the Furms. Id probably only use it no more than once a fortnight tops.