djmac Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Hi All This is my first post here. I have a 5 year old male cavalier king charles spaniel who is proving to be the most difficult dog I have ever had. He is one of two dogs who were both bought as puppies around the same time. The other dog is a female shih tzu who is very laid back and adapts easily to everything. The Cav on the other hand is so highly strung its almost impossible to relax around him. In the past we have always adopted dogs from resuce type organisations and this is the first time we have gotten a dog from a breeder. We decided to go for a pure bred dog as we had lost 2 resuce dogs in a row to illness that had not been picked up before they were adopted. Both dogs had cancer and despite extensive and expensive surgery they did not survive. We know you can't predict illness but we felt environmental issues do a play a part so we thought we would go with a breeder who had certified her dogs did not have heart problems, eye issues etc and chose 2 breeds that we had enjoyed in the past. When we contacted the breeder (registered)she was located several hours away and offered us a puppy from her litter. We didn't actually meet him until the day he was tranferred to our care. From the moment he arrived though he had a high pitched noise almost like a yodel that he broke into reglarily. We put this down to seperation anxiety and didn't 'mollycoddle' him. He was desexed under at around 6 months of age and we have fed him high quality dog food (not supermarket food) and fresh chicken wings from the moment he arrived. He has always been primarily an indoor dog. When he was a pup we took him to puppy preschool and the trainer was surprised that he was so stubborn that he would not 'work' for a piece of cabinossi. Being in a regional area there was only one puppy preschool to attend at the time. One of the participants bought her daughter with her who was obsessed by our dogs and would constantly distract him and try to pick him up. We talked to the child's parent on a number of occassions about the issue but she couldn't care less and as the class was rather large the trainer seemed too busy to really notice. We ended up dropping out and trying home training. When we contacted the breeder, on several occassions, from some advice she never replyed to us so I got the feeling she was aware of his temperament problems before she passed him onto us for full price. Fast foward 4 years on and we have tried what seems like everthing to make him easier to live with but its not worked. He steals food from the hands of the children,is constantly demanding - not necessarily for attention but for inside/outside access. For example if you just open the door for him to go and do his business in the yard he will whine and whine until he is escourted. Likewise when he is crated for the evening he will whine, bark and yodel despite having the company of another dog and wake the whole house up. He is rarely alone as I work from home - he is probably without human company for around 6-8 hours a week. That's not to say that he is 'beside' me 24/7 as he will often be in the lounge room while I am in my office. I don't allow him to sit on my lap and discourage him getting up on the lounge (he will often try to do this) as I feel that he is trying to claim ownership and dominance as he has a perfectly good and comfortable bed. He barks and yodels incessently when visitors or residents come into the house. Grooming is also very difficult despite trying to only reward him when he is showing 'good' behaviour. The 'yodel' is something he does day and night so it is very difficult to get a full nights sleep. If he is not doing this he is whining or obsessively licking and getting underfoot. We have tried medication (clomicalm and prozac) which did not have positive effects - in fact he almost seemed more neurotic on them as it seemed like he was hallucinating. We spent hundreds of dollars on a trainer who worked in the home with us, tried homeopathics and herbal preparations, the thundervest,a vibrating collar, as well as had him investigated for any medical concerns. The vets have suggested we either try some pheremone diffusers or we think about putting him down. I'm not convinced about either option but my wife is saying she can't live with this behaviour for potentially another 10+ years and asked me to consider rehoming him or following the vets advice having him put down. I am convinced that he would be quite a loyal dog to someone but with his behaviours there would be no-one in the world who would want to take him on. I don't give up easily but I'm at my wits end and don't know what to do with him. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Firstly I can see how frustrated you are, it's very understandable. I know you said he's had some thorough vet checks, but a couple of things you wrote made me think of syringomyelia. It's not that common, so I wonder whether the vet might not have picked up on it? Would you say he is a generally happy dog? I am rural too and I understand how difficult it can be to get good professional dog training/behaviour help! My recommendation would be to go and see a good behaviourist, even if it involves a bit of travelling. If you are comfortable saying around about where you are in NSW someone here might be able to suggest a good behaviourist in a reasonable vicinity. I know you said you've seen trainers before, but I can vouch that you will get way more out of a good behaviourist :) I think it would be a really good idea to see one of these brilliant people before you make any big decisions about what you do with him. I took my dog to see a good behaviourist and it clarified so much for us. The exercises we were given weren't too difficult at all, yet they really transformed my dog's life for the better. I have a 'good' dog and a 'naughty' dog. I'm sure if I only happened to have my 'good' dog I'd probably think I knew heaps about dogs and how to train them. My 'naughty' dog reminds me every day how little I know :laugh: As you say sometimes dogs do just have a more difficult temperament than others. It is a shame that the breeder is not being more helpful, I mean let's face it, part of the beauty of getting a registered purebred dog is the lifetime breeder support that is meant to come with it. So I'm sorry this hasn't happened in your case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 (edited) Life with this dog does not sound ideal 5 years is a long time without a specialist opinion though.... is there anywhere within driving distance which has a Veterinary behaviourist? Or a neurologist? A vet university clinic? A different training style? I agree with this : I know you said you've seen trainers before, but I can vouch that you will get way more out of a good behaviourist I think it would be a really good idea to see one of these brilliant people before you make any big decisions about what you do with him. I took my dog to see a good behaviourist and it clarified so much for us. The exercises we were given weren't too difficult at all, yet they really transformed my dog's life for the better. Until you get a diagnosis either way .. that it is the way he was born, that he has some problem within his brain , or that he has behavioural issues - decision making is hard for you I can understand not wanting another 10 years with the dog you have described. ... Rehoming him would be irresponsible . Rehoming a dog with problems is unfair on the new owner, and the poor dog ! if you cannot find specialist help , and worry that everyones' quality of life is suffering, and have tried everything in your scope, and budget ( and it sounds as if you have worked hard) , then having him gently euthanised while you hold him is the least stressful for the dog. Edited November 4, 2013 by persephone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmac Posted November 4, 2013 Author Share Posted November 4, 2013 Thanks guys Yes I think I will give a behaviourist a go as a last attempt. I'm pretty much in the middle of Tamworth and Sydney so if anyone knows anyone good let me know...that would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Thanks guys Yes I think I will give a behaviourist a go as a last attempt. I'm pretty much in the middle of Tamworth and Sydney so if anyone knows anyone good let me know...that would be great. Sorry, I'm at the south end of the state so I don't know of anyone. Hopefully someone will know :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretel Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I've had Cavaliers for over 30 years and not met one as high maintenance as your fella. He doesn't sound easy to live with at all! I hope you can find a good behaviourist and can get some help with him. The majority of Cavs have great temperaments though some are much more active and some much more vocal than others. My old girl Ingrid came to me at 18 months old and she was a bit of a challenge but improved a lot. I always advise people to meet the pups mum when they are buying a Cav pup. Over the years I've met some dogs that have been very timid and some that have been aggressive. Unfortunately there are some very dodgy breeders who are just in it for the money. good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burkes Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 I've heard good things about Peter Barsoum of K9magnum training but haven't met him or seen his work myself so can't really say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 No idea what his training is like ..bu the FB page is interesting and very readable :) . magnum K9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djmac Posted November 4, 2013 Author Share Posted November 4, 2013 Thanks for the tips - I did use a trainer who used a very similar philosophy to the k9magnum guy (even had a similar business name). We worked together for quite a while but in the end we didn't feel that we were getting enough benefit for the cost. Has anyone heard anything about Sydney Animal Behaviour Service? They are not cheap though(around $790 for the first consult of up to 3 hours with a registered veterinary specialists then around $250 per hour for subsequent consults). Or does anyone think it would be of benefit if I sent him away on one of those 3 week training programs that are held onsite. He does have basic obedience but I wonder if the change may break his pattern? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbaudry Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Honestly I wouldn't send him away; obedience isn't an issue but anxiety is and sending him away might aggravate the situation. I would definitely go with SABS; not cheap but you'll be seeing one of the best behaviour vets around (possibly Kersti Seksell). Also they'll be able to refer you to a trainer whose methods they approve of should they feel you need help at home. Good luck! You have all my sympathy. I know how frustrating and tiring living with a highly strung dog can be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agility Dogs Posted November 4, 2013 Share Posted November 4, 2013 Honestly I wouldn't send him away; obedience isn't an issue but anxiety is and sending him away might aggravate the situation. I would definitely go with SABS; not cheap but you'll be seeing one of the best behaviour vets around (possibly Kersti Seksell). Also they'll be able to refer you to a trainer whose methods they approve of should they feel you need help at home. Good luck! You have all my sympathy. I know how frustrating and tiring living with a highly strung dog can be... Sorry, I'm not much help with your pup, but I do know what it is like to live with a challenging dog so I have a lot of sympathy for your situation. I would however second this - I sent our dogs away to be trained and whilst they were given the basics I don't think I'd ever repeat the exercise. Once they came out I still had to spend another 6 months working with them to get them to where they 'needed' to be. If you can find someone who will work with you at your home it will really help with the overall relationship and have them working for you rather than someone else who doesn't have to live with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julesluvscavs Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) Ive never owned a Cavalier with any extreme behavioural issues. Our older girl Renae does have some anxiety issues now as a result of being deaf, age related health problems and losing her son recently, but they not excessive anxiety issues. If all fails, i suggest you get a referral to a neurosurgeon to outrule any nasties going on that may be causing it All the best. Feel sorry for you and your Cav. Edited November 5, 2013 by Jules❤3Cavs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretel Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Another vote for not sending him away for training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosetta Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) Sorry to hear you are having so much trouble with your little Cav. The obsessive licking is a worry and I would suspect some sort of neuro disorder from the description of his behaviour. I don't have anything to add to other suggestions besides a thorough neurological exam including scans. Edited November 5, 2013 by Rosetta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKG Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I have 3 friends who have used SABS and are very happy they consulted them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 If you have skype, a consultation plus some video taken at other times is an option. I'm pretty sure most of them do offer skype consults if it's too hard for you to get to Sydney. Boarding and training works very well for training issues, but less well for behaviour issues such as extreme anxiety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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