pepe001 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 I thought that registered breeders (ie from Dogs Qld for example) are not allowed to breed and sell pups from registered dogs and not register them. Also are you allowed to sell unregistered puppies out of a registered bitch but by your limited register dog. Just for interest sake. Lots do it according to Gumtree so why don't Dogs Qld (or whatever state body) just check and remove their registration status - if it is indeed not allowed. Or is it something that no one really cares about as there are more important things to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Are they actually offering papers with the pups? Maybe they are unregistered BYBers who have managed to source papered dogs which they breed, if so it's nothing to do with the registration body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Are you presuming everyone on gumtree who says they are a registered breeder means they are registered with a state canine body? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Breeders are not allowed to sell pups which can be registered, unregistered. And the answer to your second question is "no" too. CCCQ will take action if there is proof (ie, an ad in the paper or gumtree), and someone complains. Lots of those people advertising have dogs which are REGISTERED with the Council, and the PAPERS are toilet paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 It happens. My repro vet, when I lived in WA, once mentioned that he had a few clients who did routine back to back breedings and sold every other litter unregistered . .. thus avoiding kennel club restrictions on frequency of breeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassie Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 It does happen. Back when I knew better I bought a pup from an unethical registered breeder. After two weeks of having pup at home I asked when his papers would be arriving, and was told he didn't have any. If I wanted papers I would've had to let her know earlier, at an extra cost of $400. His litter sister was shown so at least some of the puppies from that litter were registered, but not him and at least one other that I knew of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe001 Posted November 1, 2013 Author Share Posted November 1, 2013 Kelpie pups, 3 males, 1 female. Pure bred by registered breeder with Dogs Queensland who is also qualified dog trainer. These pups are being well socialised to kids, chickens, cows, horses, dogs, car travel, different environments etc. They will have commenced puppy basic training classes with The Dog School. Father of pups was chosen for his exceptional temperament and colour, mother is registered for breeding with appropriate genetic testing done. They are being sold without papers. These puppies will be great family pets and excel in obedience / agility etc. OK here is the add with many variables changed. I don't really care one way or the other, but seems this is against the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 mother is registered for breeding Maybe it's just me but this statement seems odd, I would have expected to see something like mother is on mains register... Maybe the breeder is in fact not registered with Dogs QLD and is making it up to sell the pups... You could always feign interest and ask what their prefix is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 it does say sold without papers .. not that they aren't registered ... I have not much idea how this works, or the legalities ...... They give a lot of identifying details , and have put in a lot of work ...and pups are cute :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dory the Doted One Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) Or it's a purely working litter? Saw a dog with everything they wanted for a working/sport prospect, except papers and went with it anyway. Oh...and Red Dog??? Edited November 1, 2013 by Dory the Doted One Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 It does happen. Back when I knew better I bought a pup from an unethical registered breeder. After two weeks of having pup at home I asked when his papers would be arriving, and was told he didn't have any. If I wanted papers I would've had to let her know earlier, at an extra cost of $400. His litter sister was shown so at least some of the puppies from that litter were registered, but not him and at least one other that I knew of. How long ago? Before the Limited register was introduced, Breeders did not have to register all the pups in the litter and pups sold to pet homes were usually sold unregistered/without registration papers. It was generally only those which were going to be shown or bred from that were registered. My very first Pyrenean (born in 1994) was sold to me as a pet without registration as was the norm at that time (I was given a ten generation hand written pedigree). Once the Limited register was introduced, a rule was brought in that all pups in a litter must be registered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassie Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Espinay it was 2006. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ams Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Earlier this year I reported a breeder who was advertising a litter of pedigree large breed puppies without papers. I reported it to Dogs Qld who confirmed the breeder was a member. They further went to say they would investigate but sometimes these things happen and there is a reason for it? Never heard back and last I saw the puppies had all been sold unregistered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Could be loads of things to explain it. I know a new breeder who used a registered stud dog to cover her bitch- the SDO refused to sign papers at the time even though they observed the mating and took full payment for it .When the puppies were born SDO refused at first to sign papers unless they all went on limited register - that almost went ahead until they realised that the breeder could upgrade later so because they said the pups were not good enough to have their prefix listed as stud dog they would not sign stud certificate. If the breeder wanted compensation she had to go through consumer tribunals and then all she would get is her stud money back anyway. All puppies were sold without papers. This one sounds suss but Ive learned to hold off until all the facts are known before being too judgemental - working dogs have special considerations as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystiqview Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 I thought that registered breeders (ie from Dogs Qld for example) are not allowed to breed and sell pups from registered dogs and not register them. Also are you allowed to sell unregistered puppies out of a registered bitch but by your limited register dog. Just for interest sake. Lots do it according to Gumtree so why don't Dogs Qld (or whatever state body) just check and remove their registration status - if it is indeed not allowed. Or is it something that no one really cares about as there are more important things to worry about. We cannot sell pups "unregistered" or without pedigree papers. They MUST be resgistered (either main or limit, vaccinated and micochipped and come with breed info etc. For Dogs Qld to do anything, you have to PROVE the Dogs Qld member is selling pups unregistered or unpapered. In QLD also, if we dispose or sell an animal - we must also initiate a transfer or a lease/co-own arrangement. Some breeders leave the dog in their name as they are wanting return litters/studs later on which again we are not able to do. Other states do allow a breeder to leave a dog in the breeder's name, however QLD does not. In QLD - it is also legislation that ANY person who sells a dog/cat MUST microchip the animal prior to disposal or sale. (whether that be a puppy or adult dog) as per the Animal Management Act 2008 (revised 2009). Many council bylaws will also state that the breeder must also regularly vaccinate and worm their animals. A number of BYB sell their pups before 6 weeks to get away from microchipping, vaccinating and sometimes even worming the pups. There are many who advertise on Gumtree and the likes who have pedigree dogs (bought maybe on main or limit register) who breed them in a BYB situation. They are not registered with Dogs QLD. In Moreton Bay Regional Council for instance - ALL breeders (Registered Dogs Qld breeders and BYB) MUST be registered with the council to breed even one litter. So for some who are advertising - they are only registered with the council or some are even "registered" with the likes of PIAA (Pet Industry Association Australia) a so called "industry" body - however again not really Registered. I have seen registered breeders advertise occasionally on Petlink etc unregistered dogs. I know of one QLD SE registered breeder who has ANKC dogs as well as working dogs and breeds both. The working dogs are not registered with Dogs QLD. I even saw them advertise one such litter at one time on DOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 I was shopping for a new Maremma boy and applied to an ad on dogz and was told that the rest of the litter had gone to working homes and owners did not require papers and the state org would not register a part litter or one pup for a litter so none would have papers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 This is the part that bothers me the most................ "Father of pups was chosen for his exceptional temperament and colour",.............. God help the conformation. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 I was shopping for a new Maremma boy and applied to an ad on dogz and was told that the rest of the litter had gone to working homes and owners did not require papers and the state org would not register a part litter or one pup for a litter so none would have papers. :rofl: :rofl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 If you're worried, report it to Dogs QLD and let them investigate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natsu chan Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Cassie if you got your puppy in 2006 in SA I think at that point breeders in some states (SA and WA I think) still didn't have to register the whole litter. So it may be that the breeder was well with in the rules for that state as far as selling some of the litter without papers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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