Border Collie Collapse

[persephone]

it's a very limiting condition , and must be so hard for young dogs and owners not able to enjoy most of what it is to have an active breed of dog .

[SonnyBC]

Wondering if there is a way to train them to relax, he gets into the serious focused posture, and I notice hes that focused he doesn't pant a lot (so really is not cooling down between throws)

Today I sat down, and called him over (which is usually cuddle time) but he was still totally focused on ball play. and still standing over his ball, ready posture, and serious/not panting.

I find on long walks, he gets to about 30minutes, and is super obedient (I can walk him around and through town and traffic unleaded and he will obey perfectly), but after about 30minutes I find I have to lead him as his response slows, if I say sit, wait, to cross a road, it takes a couple times for him to. (so I lead him for safety) but at that point he stops being so responsive to me.

Edited October 29, 2013 by SonnyBC

[Guest Clover]

By unleaded you mean you don't have the dog restrained by a leash walking through town?

My older girl has EIC episodes when she does to much exercise to quick. It does not really matter if it is hot or not. I just know to read the signs now and stop her before she gets to worked up.

Edited October 29, 2013 by Clover

[SonnyBC]

Generally yes, he wont leave my side for any reason, dogs cars people.

There are paths around though that is mostly away from all the traffic, more park like and more grassy, so its not that often we will be around the actual busy areas but when we do walk through now and then he is brilliant. (I lead him if there is any safety risk to him or anyone, until we got him I was always really strict with leading as our golden retriever will wander and follow her nose without thought)

Though I will stop and have him lie with other dogs usually as though he wont go near them or move, you can see other owners struggling to hold their dogs back that has been our biggest issue, other dogs in the area

[Leah82]

Poor guy I wonder what, if any, permanent damage is being done by these episodes? Hopefully the vet has some good suggestions

and here's hoping a genetic marker is found soon to prevent this in future generations.

[Guest Clover]

Leah if you read up on EIC the university of minnesota did do a study and found a marker. Breeders here are already testing for it.

http://www.vdl.umn.edu/ourservices/canineneuromuscular/eic/

[ness]

Just to clarify Clovers post - yes EIC in labs etc can be tested for BC collapse cannot yet be tested for. It isn't the same gene responsible despite the commonalities in the way the condition presents.

[Guest Clover]

Apologies. I thought they were calling for Border Collie DNA to be sent to the university. I'll shut up now.

Walking the dog off lead in town is a whole other issue.

[persephone]

your poor dog has serious health concerns - please do not endanger him by walking him off-lead - it is a scary thought, as well as probably being against rules & regulations .

I will be blunt here, sorry . There is always a possibility of a fright /attack where your dog's instinct over rides all else ,and he runs ...... if he then collapses on a road, or within reach of aggro dogs ....

[ness]

Nah all good Clover - its a bit complicated - all I meant by my post is they don't have a genetic test available for BCs which breeders can access yet. Labs they have been able to test for a while.

They have the marker and my understanding was they were in final case study selection phase of affected dogs earlier in the year when I submitted Kenz's blood for inclusion.

[SonnyBC]

Where I am dogs are a part of life, its not a big town, its a community and dogs are quite accepted everywhere and most farmers bring them into town with them. Safety risks are really quite low, most dogs are trained, working and quite socialised and brought into town from puppyhood. Its not really an issue walking around the main town block with him, and most people who work in town actually know him and are happy to meet with him each time they see him. (hes got quite a reputation for stealing hearts as hes such a sookie boy)

He has never collapsed while walking around town and spends a lot of days with me at work as I prefer to have him near me to watch him then at home where he does play with neighbours dogs often and has a higher risk of excitement and collapse.

I can see the degeneration with his behaviour and obedience, and lead him and take out of the situation immediately if we are outside around town, and at work he has his own area he can be.

as for the vet, he says has dealt with it before and on looking at the video said it was almost certain BCC(he deals with a lot of working dogs) but usually they are put down if it happens, as they no longer are able to work , he did take blood tests, but would not do a dna test, he did suggest there might be other neurological issues, as there are a couple unusual behaviours he has (scared of shadows as it gets dusk, he will be shaking and nervous walking near a tree in the dark, even though hes been there many times, so there maybe a vision and nuerological disorder) he suggested just watching him for deteriation and being careful with the intense activities and try to stop before a collapse. Basically just watching and waiting as hes only 12 months old, the next 6 months are important.

His basic checkup, temp, heartrate/beat, breathing all seemed fine.

Edited October 30, 2013 by SonnyBC

[OSoSwift]

HAs he been tested for CL as well?

[temperamentfirst]

I would send blood to Sydney university and test for CL. ALso be good to have his DNA extracted and stored for any research on BCC.

[OSoSwift]

My understanding was that there wouldn't be other neurological issues like irrational fear of the trees/shadows etc as you have described - I am happy to be corrected - but I have seen that with CL and that starts showing signs around the 12 to 18 month mark.

[SonnyBC]

My understanding was that there wouldn't be other neurological issues like irrational fear of the trees/shadows etc as you have described - I am happy to be corrected - but I have seen that with CL and that starts showing signs around the 12 to 18 month mark.

for some reason my posts are not appearing.

Hoping vet is checking for Cl he took blood, but did say he would not send it off for DNA tests, so I don't know, will find out next week, and still request the Cl test.

[SonnyBC]

My understanding was that there wouldn't be other neurological issues like irrational fear of the trees/shadows etc as you have described - I am happy to be corrected - but I have seen that with CL and that starts showing signs around the 12 to 18 month mark.

Hoping its just a behaviour/personality thing, hes a very timid dog

[OSoSwift]

My understanding was that there wouldn't be other neurological issues like irrational fear of the trees/shadows etc as you have described - I am happy to be corrected - but I have seen that with CL and that starts showing signs around the 12 to 18 month mark.

Hoping its just a behaviour/personality thing, hes a very timid dog

Fingers crossed for you. It will be a very worrying time for you.

[benshiva]

I strongly recommend that you speak to your vet and get him to draw blood for a CL test. It can only be done by approved testers.

Here is a link to all the information on CL http://www.bccnsw.com/dnatesting.html

I would also speak to your breeder and ask them if they have done all the relevant DNA testing and if you can see the results of this testing. If they have not, then SHAME on them

I wish you all the best with your lovely dog SonnyBC.

[ness]

If you have video of an episode it might also be worth uploading it and sending the link through to the researchers in the states. They have been great. Definitely go ahead and get the CL test done though and rule that out.

My BCC dog is also a very nervy timid girl so that might be purely coincidental.

[Mystiqview]

It has been many years since I have had a dog with EIC (Exercise Induced Collapse)/BCC. (gee. just worked out it is now 10 years ago). Sadly my Jemma died when she was just 8 years old

Back then, it was not well known in BC's. They had just found the condition in Labs in Canada. I have nothing down from her, and while I have kept abreast of some of the new research - I am not fully up to date.

• In Jemma, the attacks started about 18 months of age and continued until she died. Although Once I learnt the signs, I could in most cases prevent an attack, or at least limit the severity/length of time of an attack
  
• I have found not always exercise triggered an episode. Jemma LOVED to please and also do tricks - if she got worked up or excited, she could bring on an attack.
  
• I also found once an attack happened, the next one could be quick to follow. YOU need to allow time (dependant on each dog) for the "toxin" in the muscles to exit the system ( I will use "toxin" in this case as a descriptive only).
  
• I also found exercising in or through water reduced episodes.
  
• Only exercise in the coolest part of the day if possible near water
  
• If an attack happens - immediately get the dog to lie in a water or keep water flowing over the stomach area to cool the dog down. Remove any toys or stimulus. Keep the dog calm
  
• Keep your dog lean - if the dog is fat/carrying excess weight get the weight off. Jemma LOVED her food and if she was more than "working dog" thin, this increased the chances of an attack
  
• Learn the signs - Mine was Jemma's tongue would start to go a very dark red/purple colour - if this happens - cool the dog down and keep them calm.
  
• Always carry a bucket and water with you in the car - now you can buy those collapsible silicon ones that fold flat. I cannot tell you how many times that saved me.
  
• Realise now that there will be activities (EG: possibly dog park) that you will no longer be able to do. Your dog now has a medical condition - so you will need to modify your activities/sports/games etc to allow for this.
  

I first learnt about it from a working sheep dog trailer (this is back in 2003). He had a working BC (not related to pedigree BC's at all)who was a short coat who suffered EIC. When he trialed, he would keep two 20L buckets of water at the gate. IF the sheep were overally difficult - he would withdraw the dog. If the dog showed signs of an impending attack he would withdraw from the run and dunk her in the buckets. I know of other working sheep dogs who have the condition, so before some go off on pedigrees - it is not just a pedigree dog related issue.

Clipping a BC does not help the heat/heat stress. The coat is a double insulator and will act both ways to keep the dog warm and also cool them. I live in a super high paralysis tick area as well (currently we are pulling up to 6 off a day). I do not clip my dogs. They are on tick preventative as well as twice daily physical checks. I also run three clam shells of water in my yard for them to dig and cool themselves down if needed. Clipping the coat changes the texture and function of the coat.