megan_ Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Having owned a Dobe that is fairly normal play, not aggressive at all. I played with mine and they did just that, they also held steady eye contact and "stalked", none of it was aggressive it was play. Having said that it is a totally inappropriate way for a large dog to interact with a baby, and not one I would allow or condone.. But it could also be prey drive? That is how a dobe looked at my boy before it attacked him (not "aggression" as such, but the dog was clearly in prey drive) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) Because the dog was a GSD and not a "pitbull"? T. Deeon Higgins got quite a large amount of media coverage and that dog was not reported as a Pit bull, but after seeing the lack of anything on this case I wonder if Deeon got attention because if the 'Bull' in Bull Mastiff?? It makes me really sad. This little boy's death is just as tragic, just as heartbreaking, just as preventable... yet it seems that deaths by other breeds just aren't as important. Edited October 30, 2013 by melzawelza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Yes, I think anything bull might grab the media attention. Either way I think it is time for some educational ads for parents on dogs and kids. I saw this great cartoon somewhere, maybe with a Frenchie? On dog facial expressions and what they mean. That in women's magazines could be good, too. Most people wouldn't have a clue when their dog is about to take off Junior's head and after the fact all blame falls on the dog when it was their job to protect them from each other. I've even seen people claim "the dog doesn't mean it" when the dog is clearly growling and rushing the child, trying to get it to back off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Sigh. So sad. So preventable. I'm surprised at the lack of media attention on this?? Me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosetta Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Maybe the family asked for some privacy and the media complied - quite possibly the reason for the minimal reporting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Great blog post from Shel on the circumstances surrounding this incident and the vast difference in reporting between this and Ayel Chol's death. Toddler dog attack death in Queensland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 When did a child become an it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pjrt Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 When did a child become an it? I think the thread title refers to the life of the child "its life" , not calling the child an it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Maybe the family asked for some privacy and the media complied - quite possibly the reason for the minimal reporting. Maybe. It would be a first! :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Great blog post from Shel on the circumstances surrounding this incident and the vast difference in reporting between this and Ayel Chol's death. Toddler dog attack death in Queensland Interesting. Shows the blatant bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Fatal dog attacks should be dealt with the same as fatal motor vehicle accidents. A special Accident Investigation Team looks at each fatal car accident ... & investigates to what extent the various factors known to cause accidents were in play. If this were done with fatal dog attacks, a clear picture would emerge about cause (s). And, like with car accidents, could be translated into safety messages. In the 2 yr old's case, it's been reported that the grandfather (& owner of the dog) also suffered bites to his arms as he tried to save the child. I could be very wrong, but this sounds as if there could be some history around the dog... & how it'd been socialised, trained and managed. There's some evidence that dogs involved in serious bites/attacks, have shown troubling behaviour before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison03 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Fatal dog attacks should be dealt with the same as fatal motor vehicle accidents. A special Accident Investigation Team looks at each fatal car accident ... & investigates to what extent the various factors known to cause accidents were in play. If this were done with fatal dog attacks, a clear picture would emerge about cause (s). And, like with car accidents, could be translated into safety messages. In the 2 yr old's case, it's been reported that the grandfather (& owner of the dog) also suffered bites to his arms as he tried to save the child. I could be very wrong, but this sounds as if there could be some history around the dog... & how it'd been socialised, trained and managed. There's some evidence that dogs involved in serious bites/attacks, have shown troubling behaviour before If children keep dying I'm sure there will be a Special Team Investigation, was it this bad 30 years ago, did children get killed and injured by the family pet this often back then? I don't remember it being this bad. : ( I remember a baby being killed by the family dog in this area about 25 years ago but that's about it and that was horrifying enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I don't know how impartial the investigation would be.. The coroner's report on Ayen Chol's case was a joke.. Pretty much started and finished at conclusion "pitbull"... Ridiculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Having owned a Dobe that is fairly normal play, not aggressive at all. I played with mine and they did just that, they also held steady eye contact and "stalked", none of it was aggressive it was play. Having said that it is a totally inappropriate way for a large dog to interact with a baby, and not one I would allow or condone.. I know the dog is not aggressive, my own dogs play with me like this, but if they nip me, accident or not, I am not likely to bleed out and die, where a baby might. The dog does not need to mean any harm, but guess who gets the blame when something happens.... Not to mention the breed will once again receive a blow against the carefully restored image. I would not let a small dog play with a baby that way either.... Which is why I said I would not allow or condone it either and you are right, I wouldn't let any dog play with my child like that. Dobes tend to do less when they mean more if that makes sense, they don't jump around and play when they mean business. They may bite or mouth in play which of course has the ability to have just as deadly consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) If children keep dying I'm sure there will be a Special Team Investigation, was it this bad 30 years ago, did children get killed and injured by the family pet this often back then? I don't remember it being this bad. : ( I remember a baby being killed by the family dog in this area about 25 years ago but that's about it and that was horrifying enough. Good question, Alison. I don't know if statistics from decades ago would be available. And I don't know if the authorities would think that fatal dog attacks occur often enough today, to warrant setting up an expert Investigation Unit, like for fatal car accidents. There's lots more fatal car accidents. But the deaths & serious injuries from dog attacks involve those at higher risk .... the very young & the very old. That's what breaks people's hearts. Even if a group with expertise in the research on dog behaviour, had the job of setting up a list of factors that police needed to investigate. Like I read research on one aspect.... the dogs that attack/bite their owner already have a different behavioural profile to those that attack another person that's not familiar to them. Knowing what to look for, might help prevent incidents. I wonder if there's something like that already, somewhere in the world? ADDED: Only found one researcher's summary of investigating dog attacks for 20 years. Her findings fit with American Veterinary Association. Don't look at the pics in the Appendix. http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/tinymce/Delise%20Research%20&%20Investigation%20Methodology.pdf Edited October 31, 2013 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alison03 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 If children keep dying I'm sure there will be a Special Team Investigation, was it this bad 30 years ago, did children get killed and injured by the family pet this often back then? I don't remember it being this bad. : ( I remember a baby being killed by the family dog in this area about 25 years ago but that's about it and that was horrifying enough. Good question, Alison. I don't know if statistics from decades ago would be available. And I don't know if the authorities would think that fatal dog attacks occur often enough today, to warrant setting up an expert Investigation Unit, like for fatal car accidents. There's lots more fatal car accidents. But the deaths & serious injuries from dog attacks involve those at higher risk .... the very young & the very old. That's what breaks people's hearts. Even if a group with expertise in the research on dog behaviour, had the job of setting up a list of factors that police needed to investigate. Like I read research on one aspect.... the dogs that attack/bite their owner already have a different behavioural profile to those that attack another person that's not familiar to them. Knowing what to look for, might help prevent incidents. I wonder if there's something like that already, somewhere in the world? ADDED: Only found one researcher's summary of investigating dog attacks for 20 years. Her findings fit with American Veterinary Association. Don't look at the pics in the Appendix. http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/tinymce/Delise%20Research%20&%20Investigation%20Methodology.pdf I think you are right it's unlikely they'd set up an investigation team and they'd need dog behaviorists and experts to be part of it, not sure how that would work. I know local councils keep a list of bite incidents and the breed of the dog responsible. That can be illuminating as to the breeds that bite the most. It's not the ones the media would have us believe. That photo in the appendix was fairly harrowing and shows the dangers of not socializing dogs correctly. Not the dogs fault. I'm not sure what the solution is or how to stop the deaths without over policing the issue. It's heartbreaking when a child dies for want of a bit of training on the dog owners part. : ( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosmum Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) Attacks have always happened. But there was a different attitude 40 years ago when dogs were more of a community issue. Accepted as part the community and dealt with by the community. Like with the kids, the nearest handy adult would deal with what was in front of them. Most attacks weren't news worthy because they seldom got to that stage. Fatalities were rare and usualy fault was attributed to the owner. It was part of life.Don't mess up 'cos stuff happens. Edited October 31, 2013 by moosmum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 When did a child become an it? I think the thread title refers to the life of the child "its life" , not calling the child an it.... I hope you aren't a teacher because you are totally wrong :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pjrt Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 When did a child become an it? I think the thread title refers to the life of the child "its life" , not calling the child an it.... I hope you aren't a teacher because you are totally wrong :) No thankfully I'm just a stupid dog groomer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajirin Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 When did a child become an it? I think the thread title refers to the life of the child "its life" , not calling the child an it.... I hope you aren't a teacher because you are totally wrong :) No thankfully I'm just a stupid dog groomer Its is the neutral possessive and as the title is mentioning a child and not boy or girl, it is quite correct to use its. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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