Why Is My Girl A Target?

[sandgrubber]

Private dog parks may be a good solution if you can find one. (Or if you have a chunk of land, you might consider starting one).

I pay to belong to a members-only dog park. 14 fenced acres with two ponds, a sprinkling of toys, and a lot of shade (and squirrels). They are militantly anti-BSL, but aggressive dogs who are not controlled get kicked out (basically, if you get a lot of complaints about your dog, your dog gets banned). My guess is people whose dogs become targets (I've never seen this happen but it probably does) don't stay long.

The outcome fits in with what AlphaBet states.

The park is dominated by gun dogs and hounds (the dominant type in the bush hereabouts. Hounds often work in packs, and aggression is not approved), gundog x hounds, Bostons, a few standard poodles, boxers, Danes, sight hounds, sibes, and crosses of all the above. Some herding dogs (mostly BC's and Aussie Shepherds....they have an agility set up). Few terriers, bull terriers, or mastiffs (other than danes). Few lap dogs other than Bostons. A couple Dobes. My dogs (Labs) were afraid of the Danes, but it didn't take long for them to figure out that they are just big, not dangerous.

Too far away to do you any good, but I think the OP's dog would fit in well.

[Steph M]

I wouldn't do a daycare either with a dog that tends to get picked on - it will get picked on there too.

We've recently had a much worse experience at a well renowned daycare than I have ever ever had at a park.

Never ever again.

[Dame Aussie]

Yeah be very careful about dog daycare businesses. Personally I've hard so many bad reports about numerous places that I would never use one

[Steph M]

If you want the dogs to have a play why not try to find a really good day care where they assess the dogs and only allow suitable dogs to mix?

Seriously? The whole point of having a dog is to spend time with it, what's the point if instead of spending time with it you just billet it out to someone else. I understand some people using day care for during their work hours, etc but what's the point of having a dog if you just send it away when you otherwise would have been spending time enjoying life together?

Apart from that I'd much rather be in a one on one/two situation with my own dog where I can properly supervise than leave my dog with a stranger and hope they have enough sense to read their body language!

Yes dear seriously. Lots of people put their dogs into day care occasionally so they can mix with other dogs in a controlled environment - providing it is a professional daycare. Hardly "billeting them out" and doesn't mean they don't want to spend time with them. You don't have to spend all your spare time with your dog surely.

They're entirely different and serve entirely different purposes?

A relaxed walk down the park in the sun VS a day in with 25 or so other dogs of various size, temperament and age in close quarters.

If she's being targeted for showing signs of submission or nervousness or even aggression this is much much more likely to complicate and exacerbate these issues. Ergh!

Aside from that $50 bucks plus a day is just too much for many people. Be practical.

You can organise playdates with friends. We'd be in if you're in Vic. I'm sure some other people here would be happy to help you out.

Might also be worth some solid obedience to build up some confidence?

ETA I see you do that. Go you! :p

Edited October 29, 2013 by Steph M

[Rosetta]

If you want the dogs to have a play why not try to find a really good day care where they assess the dogs and only allow suitable dogs to mix?

Seriously? The whole point of having a dog is to spend time with it, what's the point if instead of spending time with it you just billet it out to someone else. I understand some people using day care for during their work hours, etc but what's the point of having a dog if you just send it away when you otherwise would have been spending time enjoying life together?

Apart from that I'd much rather be in a one on one/two situation with my own dog where I can properly supervise than leave my dog with a stranger and hope they have enough sense to read their body language!

Yes dear seriously. Lots of people put their dogs into day care occasionally so they can mix with other dogs in a controlled environment - providing it is a professional daycare. Hardly "billeting them out" and doesn't mean they don't want to spend time with them. You don't have to spend all your spare time with your dog surely.

They're entirely different and serve entirely different purposes?

A relaxed walk down the park in the sun VS a day in with 25 or so other dogs of various size, temperament and age in close quarters.

If she's being targeted for showing signs of submission or nervousness or even aggression this is much much more likely to complicate and exacerbate these issues. Ergh!

Aside from that $50 bucks plus a day is just too much for many people. Be practical.

You can organise playdates with friends. We'd be in if you're in Vic. I'm sure some other people here would be happy to help you out.

Might also be worth some solid obedience to build up some confidence?

ETA I see you do that. Go you! :p

Huh? The OP is talking about dog parks not relaxing in the park. How is the purpose so much different between dog parks and day care when the purpose of the person taking their dog to the dog park is socialisation in many cases. If that is the purpose then a well run daycare is a better choice. And $50 a day is expensive - you can get daycare for $20.

Excuse me for making a suggestion - you may not think it practical, so what.

[Kavik]

I don't go to dog parks either - too many rude dogs. There are too many rude dogs at daycares too. I would never go to either.

But one difference between taking your dog to a dog park and to a daycare is that you are there with your dog at a park, and every dog has its owner with it, whereas at a daycare there are only a few people looking after all the dogs, and you are not there. Which means you can't look after your dog and instead you rely on someone else to keep your dog safe.

[Snoopy21]

Ok. So last night I had the opportunity to watch another scrap from a distance. I was walking the pup about 7m behind by OH who had Willow. We were on a wide bush track. A smaller dog came into view, coming towards us on a flexi-lead. It was straining and over-excited/anxious once it saw our dogs. My OH told Willow to leave it, and moved over as far left as he could with himself between Willow and the oncoming dog. The young guy didn't even lock his flexi so of course the little dog rushed over towards Willow. She had been showing normal relaxed but interested body language looking from OH to the oncoming dog and back. The little dog suddenly made a final rush with barking and growling. My OH said its teeth were bared also. Willow immediately stepped forward and across in front of OH and snapped into a much more tense posture. The little dog leaped at her and it was on.

I'm wondering if Willow is actually being overly defensive of us (her people) and now our other dog? I still can't see it in her body language, but maybe it is subtle?

Willow was unhurt, and walked calmly past two terriers about 10 minutes later. The other owner got quite the shock I think. Hopefully it will make him reassess his choice/use of equipment and encourage him to be more careful.

It sure does make it hard to go out and do things with your dogs.....

Thanks to everyone for their ideas so far. We live in Tassie so have very limited options daycare and dog park wise. A private dog park would be ideal, but there isn't one here.

[hankdog]

Boxers and bulldogs get picked on by other dogs because apparently the face folds make it difficult to read them. Maybe there's a bit of that for her plus the extra size could just freak other dogs out. It may be nothing she's doing just her different look, poor girl.

[mumof4girls]

Just a thought , would it be that she is on lead ? I know my girl is different on lead than off so maybe other dogs that are off lead see her as a target because of her being on lead ? When we have fun days and someone leaves their dog on lead they always seem to attract negative attention ..

[RubyBlue]

My entire boy gets targeted also. So much so that he is now not so relaxed about encounters with unknown dogs and I monitor the situation very carefully. Previously he would just ignore dogs charging and mounting him but now he won't allow a dog who's trying to stand over him to approach his rear end. So far he hasn't been bitten but I have.

Ian Dunbar gave an explanation of desexed vs entire dogs that stuck with me. It was that desexed males still know they're males but smell like females to other dogs (kinda like they're dressed in drag). You can have a bunch of desexed males together and they all think they are the only male surrounded by a harem of females. When an entire male comes around one/some of the desexed males may get cocky (as to date they think all other males have avoided going near his females) and he may challenge the entire male. The entire male can't figure out this particular girl is being such a bitch.

[Alison03]

Just a thought , would it be that she is on lead ? I know my girl is different on lead than off so maybe other dogs that are off lead see her as a target because of her being on lead ? When we have fun days and someone leaves their dog on lead they always seem to attract negative attention ..

I've noticed the target problem with on leash dogs, particularly the ones under control of their owners, not out in front on extender leashes. Perhaps other dogs see that as weakness, I'm just brain storming here.

I live in a guide dog training area and have seen some dogs go silly when they see a guide dog. My cousins Westie just goes daft trying to get to the guide dog, unless I've got hold of his leash, he doesn't do that act with me.

That's the question do other dogs, especially when off leash, view on leash dogs in a different way????

[persephone]

I'm wondering if Willow is actually being overly defensive of us (her people) and now our other dog? I still can't see it in her body language, but maybe it is subtle?

your description of that encounter sounds as if she could be .....

[mumof4girls]

I'm thinking the same thing Alison03..

[hankdog]

I'm no expert but apparently with dogs there's a fight or flight decision to make when being approached by potentially aggressive dogs. If your dogs on leash, particularly if they're under control there's no flight option so it has to be fight. This is why a dog on leash may act differently and is sometimes more aggressive than when off leash. Hard to know without an expert watching but I have heard of some dogs that appear to be dog aggressive actually being a frustrated greeter. They want to greet the dog but can't because of the leash so get aggressive. I think there's something on K9 pros' website. Might be an idea to get a behaviorist in to give you their opinion, there's a difference between a trainer and a behaviorist as I found out.

My experience is only related to my own DA dog so don't take it as gospel but once they get DA it's a huge problem so it might be worth getting it sorted before she develops a problem. Mines a rescue so we don't know for sure why he has a problem but from what I know of his past it may have been a combination if no flight option and being wrongly exposed to other dogs.

[Kavik]

I'm no expert but apparently with dogs there's a fight or flight decision to make when being approached by potentially aggressive dogs. If your dogs on leash, particularly if they're under control there's no flight option so it has to be fight. This is why a dog on leash may act differently and is sometimes more aggressive than when off leash. Hard to know without an expert watching but I have heard of some dogs that appear to be dog aggressive actually being a frustrated greeter. They want to greet the dog but can't because of the leash so get aggressive. I think there's something on K9 pros' website. Might be an idea to get a behaviorist in to give you their opinion, there's a difference between a trainer and a behaviorist as I found out.

My experience is only related to my own DA dog so don't take it as gospel but once they get DA it's a huge problem so it might be worth getting it sorted before she develops a problem. Mines a rescue so we don't know for sure why he has a problem but from what I know of his past it may have been a combination if no flight option and being wrongly exposed to other dogs.

Hankdog, I think my Zoe was initially a frustrated greeter, which then developed into dog aggression.

[Alison03]

I'm no expert but apparently with dogs there's a fight or flight decision to make when being approached by potentially aggressive dogs. If your dogs on leash, particularly if they're under control there's no flight option so it has to be fight. This is why a dog on leash may act differently and is sometimes more aggressive than when off leash. Hard to know without an expert watching but I have heard of some dogs that appear to be dog aggressive actually being a frustrated greeter. They want to greet the dog but can't because of the leash so get aggressive. I think there's something on K9 pros' website. Might be an idea to get a behaviorist in to give you their opinion, there's a difference between a trainer and a behaviorist as I found out.

My experience is only related to my own DA dog so don't take it as gospel but once they get DA it's a huge problem so it might be worth getting it sorted before she develops a problem. Mines a rescue so we don't know for sure why he has a problem but from what I know of his past it may have been a combination if no flight option and being wrongly exposed to other dogs.

Thanks Hankdog :) The "no flight option" makes a lot of sense, I'd never thought of it that way. It gives me more of an understanding of why some dogs get very worked up when we meet them on a walk.

My dog does not react on leash at all, that seems to make a target of her too, I could understand it if she was a frustrated greeter. She does move behind me if a dog with less than friendly intentions tries to get to her, that might be seen as submission I'm guessing. She does a lot better with other dogs off leash, at best I assist by running interference, which works very well with most dogs. :D

Edited November 3, 2013 by Alison03

[hankdog]

Moving behind you is excellent, she's seeing you as the one to deal with the situation. If she stops doing this then you're in trouble, when she decides she has to deal with it then its very hard to convince them not to. Part of my battle has been to convince Jake that I'm in charge and I'm the one who decides what to do. I have to put myself in front if him and block the other dog, also getting the voice of god out and yelling "no"or "get back "whilst leaning slightly forward helps get the other dog to go away and gets their owners to call them.

[Alison03]

Moving behind you is excellent, she's seeing you as the one to deal with the situation. If she stops doing this then you're in trouble, when she decides she has to deal with it then its very hard to convince them not to. Part of my battle has been to convince Jake that I'm in charge and I'm the one who decides what to do. I have to put myself in front if him and block the other dog, also getting the voice of god out and yelling "no"or "get back "whilst leaning slightly forward helps get the other dog to go away and gets their owners to call them.

Oh yes I do the voice of God too along with making myself look bigger by opening my free arm, it's worked so far, with one notable exception, which knocked me sideways for a while but now I'm back in the saddle.

A cousin of mine has had a bad time with her dog, he thinks he's boss, she's had to resort to picking his struggling 10 kg body up and staggering away from any dog that sets him off. He particularly doesn't like Labs for some reason only known to him. She tells me apart from being exhausting it's very embarrassing. If I have his leash I can stop him if I see the Lab first by making him sit, then standing in front of him, facing him, but all bets are off if he sees the Lab first. It's like he reaches a certain pitch then there's no turning back.