Snoopy21 Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 Willow is a 6 year old great Dane cross that I adopted from a rescue at 5 months old. She is a sweet girl who loves her people and everyone in general. We adopted another pup in February this year, and Willow has adapted well to sharing her house and yard. We have been going to the dog park more often now that we have two dogs. Willow stays on lead always - her recall is not strong enough for my liking and I know if she got chasing something she would blow me off. Obviously she is often approached by off lead dogs at the park. She is fine with it. I give her plenty of lead length to circle and sniff the approaching dog etc. The problem is that she seems to be a target for attacks from other dogs. I can't see anything in her body language that invites it. She is generally relaxed, her ears may come forward if she is interested, her tail wags at a medium pace neither tense nor tucked. There are a couple of dogs that hate her - and will fly at her snarling and snapping from metres away. Another couple come over, sniff, circle, then snarl and snap. She will have a go back if they start it. She has many positive interactions at the park, and our little dog loves going. I know off lead parks aren't ideal and I can always choose not to go. I keep on driving if I pull up and the dogs I know are a problem are already there. I don't want her hurt. What I really want to know is why? Why do other dogs see her as a target? Is it because she is on lead? Or because she is big and black? Or is it her attitude/body language? What should I be looking for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ams Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 The simple answer is don't take her to dog parks. I've seen it happen in rescue and also in dog parks. The target dog may not being showing anything we can pick up on but other dogs can. Dog parks are great for dogs who are extremely well socialised, have perfect recall and an ability to ignore bad manners by all other dogs. I can't think of too many that fit in that tiny box. Take her for walks, do training in a park when no one is there or take her to the park when you know the chances of someone else being there are slim. I have a friend who takes her dogs at 2am so they get to go for a run and she knows they will be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Clover Posted October 26, 2013 Share Posted October 26, 2013 I would not be putting her in that situation it is not fair on her. Being on lead she can not escape or effectively protect herself from an attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 I'd say mostly her size(height), my basset hound is actually a bigger dog than my kelpie by weight and length but is shorter by height and despite them both receiving the same type of socialisation and being great with other friendly dogs it's always the kelpie that other dogs have a go at. I put it down to the kelpie being just that bit taller so small dogs are mre likely to interpret her as standing over them even if she isn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 My entire male Dally is an absolute target - 99% of males can't stand him and 100% of the girls (even the grumpy ones) adore him. There can be a fight going on next to him and he'll just be wagging his tail and whining to start training. I've had an Aussie Shep (neutered male) lunge at his throat whilst he was doing prancy, focused heel work. He's the one that will be stood over in group stays. Or flirted with as the case may be :laugh: Even in controlled situations (eg trials) I watch other dogs like a hawk, we do our ring warm ups with room to move and he only gets to free run with bitches. He doesn't stare at other dogs but they all stare at him. I go to quiet ovals for training and pack up when other dogs turn up. He will stand there and let me defend him but if I can't he will. He's a strong, confident lad and will not take any nonsense when cornered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*kirty* Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Champa is a target for other males too. He is quite confident in his appearance - chest out, high stepping, etc. Not sure if this pisses off male dogs? Weird how some are a target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyt Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Height generally will not have an impact except for very few dogs that are re-active due to past history with other dogs. I never found it to be an issue with Greys anyway. The lead will create much more interest in your dog in my experience. If you can go to quiet areas of the park, especially in quieter times and when the 2 trouble dogs will not be there and trial having her off the lead, you may get a better sense of what happens. FWIW, I have never seen a GD attack another dog so not having perfect recall is not the hugest of issues if you are confident that Willow will not be the aggressor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosetta Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 It amazes me that you keep taking her to the dog park when she is frequently attacked. And what danger is the small dog in if there are aggressive dogs there? How is it worth it? Don't understand really. If you want the dogs to have a play why not try to find a really good day care where they assess the dogs and only allow suitable dogs to mix? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 If you want the dogs to have a play why not try to find a really good day care where they assess the dogs and only allow suitable dogs to mix? Seriously? The whole point of having a dog is to spend time with it, what's the point if instead of spending time with it you just billet it out to someone else. I understand some people using day care for during their work hours, etc but what's the point of having a dog if you just send it away when you otherwise would have been spending time enjoying life together? Apart from that I'd much rather be in a one on one/two situation with my own dog where I can properly supervise than leave my dog with a stranger and hope they have enough sense to read their body language! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 I wouldn't do a daycare either with a dog that tends to get picked on - it will get picked on there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hankodie Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 I've noticed my GR puppy Hank can sometimes be a target, I asked my trainer why and she said that it's mainly because he's so submissive around other dogs (also the fact that he's only a puppy and older dogs probably like to make sure that he knows that). I don't think I would ever put him in a position where he would be approached by unknown dogs, just from the couple of interactions that have happened in the past between offleash dogs rushing him (while we were walking in a non offleash area). My other girl has also been a target before when we used to walk through an off leash area to get to a quiet oval to train - the dogs sometimes didn't like the fact that she was on a leash, even though she was minding her own business. I avoid going to the dog park altogether with either of them just because there are too many things that could go wrong, coupled with owners who know very little about controlling their dogs or reading a dog's body language. In a social setting like a dog park, dogs are naturally going to want to sort out a pecking order (that starts all over again when a new dog joins the group) and not every dog is going to have the nicest social skills. I completely understand the appeal of off leash dog parks, it's wonderful to see your dogs socialising and having fun. But maybe you can opt to take them to a more controlled environment to get this experience, is there a local obedience club where you are? You get to suss out the other dogs a little better and pick and choose who your dog interacts with. It's also a good opportunity for your dogs to make friends and you can even set up your own play dates with owners there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poodle wrangler Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Easy fix: Just don't take her into the dog enclosure area. I had one dog that loved dog parks and another that didn't. I ended up either tying the one who hated them outside or leaving him in car. I also liked the dog park, seeing other dogs etc.. We also walked, and did many other activities with our dog park-hating dog, so I didn't feel a 20 minute wait was making him suffer. Wasn't worth dragging a dog into something he didn't enjoy. He became nervous with larger dogs and would growl, bar teeth etc.- unfair on other dogs, also. Many dogs should never be taken to dog parks as are too aggressive/ out of control, but owners in denial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosetta Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 If you want the dogs to have a play why not try to find a really good day care where they assess the dogs and only allow suitable dogs to mix? Seriously? The whole point of having a dog is to spend time with it, what's the point if instead of spending time with it you just billet it out to someone else. I understand some people using day care for during their work hours, etc but what's the point of having a dog if you just send it away when you otherwise would have been spending time enjoying life together? Apart from that I'd much rather be in a one on one/two situation with my own dog where I can properly supervise than leave my dog with a stranger and hope they have enough sense to read their body language! Yes dear seriously. Lots of people put their dogs into day care occasionally so they can mix with other dogs in a controlled environment - providing it is a professional daycare. Hardly "billeting them out" and doesn't mean they don't want to spend time with them. You don't have to spend all your spare time with your dog surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Well how nice for you that you have the proximity to something like a daycare and the expendable money to pay the fees, those of us who don't have little choice but to spend time with our dogs when we want to exercise them... And please don't call me dear, I'm not ten years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy21 Posted October 27, 2013 Author Share Posted October 27, 2013 Firstly - she isn't constantly attacked - it has happened maybe 6 times throughout the year. There are many awesome interactions and peaceful walks in between times which is why we keep going. My other dog is hardly little - he is a 23 kg kelpie/staffy type mix, and he has not been even growled at by the dogs in question which is why I noticed the difference. Of course he still behaves like a puppy and is quite submissive which helps. I would not allow her to be hurt and all scraps have been stopped within seconds. Walking other places isn't any better. We have been rushed and attacked several times in the streets around home too. Most recently in our own street by an offlead kelpie that would not back off even when i kicked it. If I go to the dog park at the same time of day I know most of the owners and dogs who are there. Often we have the park to ourselves. I was more interested in why it happens than how to stop it. Knowing which dogs are likely to have a go has been the key. Why would her being on lead make a difference to other dogs? What is going on with her body language or our relationship that makes it different to them? The park is not fenced, it is a large open oval with a walking track around the outside. We walk around the track, sometimes with other owners and dogs on lead, our other dogs off lead around us. The off lead dog runs on the grass or plays in the creek that runs along the side of the park. Willow will never be allowed offlead there, there are rabbits, cats, sheep, birds and geese around (and sometimes in) the park, and I know I could not call her off them. I'm trying to be responsible for her behaviour. If she killed someone's cat or chased a rabbit out onto the road....then what? We go to obedience club, we go to the beach, we go on quiet walks with both or either dog, we walk in the bush, we go to ovals etc. She isn't missing out on any exercise or socialisation. I'm certainly not sending her to day care when she seems to have a target on her for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 I have noticed that some dogs do seem to attract negative attention from other dogs. Maybe something about her body language? I'm not sure. Could you get footage of her meeting another dog (not one where she gets hassled, just one with a nice dog) and post it, then we could look at how she approaches other dogs and see if there is something there that triggers it. One that comes to mind for me was a dog that was quite submissive, and other dogs hassled it. Another was a hermaphrodite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosetta Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Well how nice for you that you have the proximity to something like a daycare and the expendable money to pay the fees, those of us who don't have little choice but to spend time with our dogs when we want to exercise them... And please don't call me dear, I'm not ten years old. Well don't use words like "seriously" in your replies :) Not all people who use daycare are cashed up - it was a "serious" suggestion as an alternative to dog parks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korbin13 Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Not sure if the OP is asking for advice on what to do, but rather WHY it happens. I would be interested as well, I love learning about dog language and behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hankodie Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 (edited) I was more interested in why it happens than how to stop it. Knowing which dogs are likely to have a go has been the key. Why would her being on lead make a difference to other dogs? What is going on with her body language or our relationship that makes it different to them? I've read (and been told by trainers) that dogs naturally move in an "arc" to properly (and politely) greet each other. Obviously being on a leash limits the amount of space and movement a dog has to interact with another dog (hence why leashed greetings can sometimes be a bit more tense and cause more issues). That's the first thing that comes to mind. Like I said, I've also experienced the same thing when moving through an off leash area with my dog on lead. One of the owners even said to me that I "shouldn't have my dog on the leash in this area because the other dogs don't like it". It could be the fact that she's on a leash, it could just be something in her body language, there's no real way of telling even from your detailed description :) Maybe you can enlist the help of a good trainer to view the interaction(s) and give you some advice - as well as tell you exactly what is going on? Just a thought Edited October 27, 2013 by hankodie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkycat Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 I don't know why it happens but I have seen it happen many times at dog parks. Someone will arrive with a dog on lead and start walking around and other dogs will approach and then scuffles start. I also have a dog with iffy re-call and as she loves going to the dog park I just watch her very carefully and let her run around she usually ends up trotting next to me as I do laps of the park. She has a few special dog friends that she likes to play with and there are always lots of people she can "talk" to ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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