Questions Regarding Desexing

[Raksha]

Hello, sorry if I posted this in the wrong forum section!

My Kelpie pup(female) is currently 7 months old and has not been desexed yet... The reason for that is because she's my first dog and I have heard a lot of stories about dogs not recovering and passing away due to the surgery.

I own cats and they are desexed and recovered perfectly, although as I said above, this is my first dog so I don't know if dogs are any different to cats when it comes to recovering.

I have a few questions if you guys could answer them please :)

Is it okay to desex at 1 year old(probably after their first heat cycle), even though 6 months is preferred?

Is it true that every heat cycle they go through increases the chance of a problem happening(not quite sure what 'problem' though)?

Is it normal for some dogs to bleed from the stitches & refuse to eat/drink for a few days after surgery?

Will the bitch become less active, fat, personality change, etc?

Will desexing before they're fully grown/sexually mature have any impact on their growth rate/adult size?

After surgery, should they be fed less than usual for the first 2 weeks?

Anything else I should know about?

Thanks guys!

[Staff'n'Toller]

Is it okay to desex at 1 year old(probably after their first heat cycle), even though 6 months is preferred?

Yes, but it will be more expensive now due to the fact she is a mature dog, and may take slightly longer to do the surgery. You should desex her halfway between her first and second heat cycle if you're planning to - the full cycle is generally 6 months long.

Is it true that every heat cycle they go through increases the chance of a problem happening(not quite sure what 'problem' though)?

Bitches who've been through a number of heat cycles without a pregnancy are susceptible to uterine infection, but we generally see it middle age and older dogs. Bitches who are left intact have much higher rates of mammary gland tumours in old age.

Is it normal for some dogs to bleed from the stitches & refuse to eat/drink for a few days after surgery?

Some slight weeping can happen, particularly if the bitch is too active after surgery or if there were some skin bleeders present during surgery but generally no, it should be a nice clean wound. If your bitch gets adequate pain relief (an opioid in her premed injection, a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory injection at the end of surgery and some anti-inflam tablets to go home with) she should be happy to eat that evening or the next day.

Will the bitch become less active, fat, personality change, etc?

No, generally no personality change. There is some talk about slight metabolism changes in desexed dogs, but you also have to remember that at 7 months her growth is slowing and you should adjust the food intake appropriately.

Will desexing before they're fully grown/sexually mature have any impact on their growth rate/adult size?

There is some evidence that growth plate closure is delayed in desexed dogs and they grow slightly taller than their intact counterparts (I think I have that correct). But for a pet dog this is not an issue.

After surgery, should they be fed less than usual for the first 2 weeks?

No. :)

Anything else I should know about?

Yes, if you have questions, you are welcome to ask them here, or call your vet clinic and ask the vet nurses there - they will give you correct information and you won't need to scare yourself reading through Dr Google. :)

[OSoSwift]

What she said :)

Just ahd mine done, it wasn't straight forward and a breed that can have issues with some anaesthetics. She came through really well and is hooning around like nothing happened three weeks out :)

[tdierikx]

These are all great questions to ask the vet that you are considering using to have your dog desexed...

From my experience though - after having many (read over 100) rescue foster pups desexed young, and a number of my own dogs done at more mature ages - most dogs don't have any issues with the surgery, nor do they have any of the issues afterwards you are worried about.

I have noticed that the younger the dog, the easier it takes the surgery - ie. young puppies (under 12 weeks) don't even seem to notice that they have had surgery at all, and are running about and playing as normal the next day - older dogs may be a little uncomfortable for the first day or two, but soon recover just fine.

May I also dispel the myth that dogs will get fat after being desexed... if you feed and exercise your dog to the weight and body style that you prefer, no dog will get fat - desexed or not. I have 4 lovely lean desexed bitches here ranging in age from 14 years down to 12 months old.

Only 1 of my dogs had some complications after being desexed - she had a reaction to the internal stitches which caused a lovely big fluid bubble. We drained it twice over the next week, and she was fine after that - she was already on antibiotics after the surgery, so we let them do their job to make sure the reaction didn't get infected (no nasties in the fluid when we checked it). Within a week, the fluid stopped building up, and she healed normally after that. At no point were I or the vet overly concerned about the "problem" as presented. She was 3 years old when desexed and had had a litter previously.

One thing I ALWAYS insist on before any of my dogs has internal surgery is a "scrape test" - this is a cheap and easy test to check clotting speed in the dog. They will make a small scrape with a sharp instrument inside the dog's cheek, and time how long before it stops bleeding. If it takes longer than it should (usually under 1 minute), the vet then uses an anaesthetic combined with a clotting agent when performing the surgery to make sure the dog doesn't bleed more than it should... easy peasy!

If you are considering doing agility work with your dog, I'd say to get her desexed once she has physically matured and finished growing - purely because there IS enough anecdotal evidence that early desexing can result in a leggier dog - which obvioulsy isn't ideal for agility training and the stresses it can put on the joints. If you are not going to do high activity sports with your dog, this will be much less of an issue, and I'd get her done about 6-8 weeks after her first season.

T.

[WreckitWhippet]

Is it okay to desex at 1 year old(probably after their first heat cycle), even though 6 months is preferred?

It most certainly is and I'd even wait a bit beyond that. 6 months is a magical number in the sand, it means nothing other than Councils charge more for the registration of entire animals after 6 months of age.

Is it true that every heat cycle they go through increases the chance of a problem happening(not quite sure what 'problem' though)?

Yes there is an increased risk of pyometra

Is it normal for some dogs to bleed from the stitches & refuse to eat/drink for a few days after surgery?

Bleeding no, sulking and refusing to eat yes. It's not a "minor" procedure as some would make out.

Will desexing before they're fully grown/sexually mature have any impact on their growth rate/adult size?

absolutely YESit impacts on their height and muscle development. The hormones are there for a reason, take them away and there will be adverse results.

After surgery, should they be fed less than usual for the first 2 weeks?

Just in the first few days to a week

Anything else I should know about?

It's entirely your decision and don't be pushed into it by the desex at all costs brigade. If you feel you can let your bitch go through a season before speying, then it's entirely your choice to do so and spey at a time that you feel is appropriate and she is fully mature.

[mixeduppup]

Is it okay to desex at 1 year old(probably after their first heat cycle), even though 6 months is preferred?

It's fine.

Is it true that every heat cycle they go through increases the chance of a problem happening(not quite sure what 'problem' though)?

It's true that each heat the bitch goes through without getting desexed increases the likelihood of hormone related problems down the track, such as pyometra, mammary tumours etc.

Is it normal for some dogs to bleed from the stitches & refuse to eat/drink for a few days after surgery?

This is a very individual thing. Some dogs bounce back like nothing even happened and others get a bit anxious for a few days afterward. My big great dane cross girl didn't eat for 3 days after her surgery but both my kelpies ate like pigs :laugh: . Again the bleeding thing is an individual dog thing. You can't predict that but as long as it's just a tiny bit of seepage there shouldn't be anything to worry about.

Will the bitch become less active, fat, personality change, etc?

It depends on the dog. I've had my two kelpies desexed and it didn't change their activity levels at all. One got fatter one stayed lean. No personality changes at all really. It's said that desexing will make your dogs calmer but I honestly believe that is a very individual thing

Will desexing before they're fully grown/sexually mature have any impact on their growth rate/adult size?

Not for a kelpie at almost a year old. if so it would be very minimal.

After surgery, should they be fed less than usual for the first 2 weeks?

We don't advise that at our clinic and I didn't learn it in the vet nurse course. We advise to give them light meals for the two days following the surgery and then feed them normally.

Anything else I should know about?

Desexing is a routine surgery and it's rare that something will go wrong. I have 7 dogs here and they've all been desexed without issue. I work at a clinic and have assisted in desexing hundreds of dogs that do not have an issue. The most annoying thing when you've had a kelpie speyed is trying to keep it quiet afterward, :laugh:

[WreckitWhippet]

Can someone please explain to me that why for a "pet dog or bitch " is growth and development considered not to be an issue ?

Really, do pet people deserve a dog or bitch that fails to reach full maturity and development just because it's a "pet" . Does the animal itself deserve what comes with desexing prior to maturity, just because it's a "pet" ?

Let's make no mistake, desexing is an operation of convenience for most.

[tdierikx]

Because in most cases, the longer you leave it, the more chances for an accidental pregnancy to happen - complacency about a bitch in heat is probably one of the largest factors contributing to accidental pregnancies.

Obviously not an issue if you are fine with making sure the bitch doesn't have the chance to be got at by a male - and knowing the signs that she is coming into season, etc...

Then there is the mess aspect... lots of people have a hard time coping with that as well...

T.

[D'smum]

Can someone please explain to me that why for a "pet dog or bitch " is growth and development considered not to be an issue ?

Really, do pet people deserve a dog or bitch that fails to reach full maturity and development just because it's a "pet" . Does the animal itself deserve what comes with desexing prior to maturity, just because it's a "pet" ?

Let's make no mistake, desexing is an operation of convenience for most.

Absolutely. Convenient as in less possibility of trips to the vet for mammary lumps and no risk of pyometra. I'm sold. Hell, if they'd desex me I'd be all over that as well. Desexing early as someone has already pointed out prevents accidental matings. Nothing affects a bitches development quite like having pups while she still is one.

[moosepup]

Will the bitch become less active, fat, personality change, etc?

It depends on the dog. I've had my two kelpies desexed and it didn't change their activity levels at all. One got fatter one stayed lean. No personality changes at all really. It's said that desexing will make your dogs calmer but I honestly believe that is a very individual thing

LIES!!!!!! *looks at Nacho*

It's extremely rare for a dog not to make it through a neuter/spey op, she'll be fine (whenever you decide to do it). :)

Edited October 26, 2013 by moosepup

[OSoSwift]

Can someone please explain to me that why for a "pet dog or bitch " is growth and development considered not to be an issue ?

Really, do pet people deserve a dog or bitch that fails to reach full maturity and development just because it's a "pet" . Does the animal itself deserve what comes with desexing prior to maturity, just because it's a "pet" ?

Let's make no mistake, desexing is an operation of convenience for most.

Absolutely. Convenient as in less possibility of trips to the vet for mammary lumps and no risk of pyometra. I'm sold. Hell, if they'd desex me I'd be all over that as well. Desexing early as someone has already pointed out prevents accidental matings. Nothing affects a bitches development quite like having pups while she still is one.

Sorry but rubbish. I have had bitches desexed younger and older I do not have to take them to the vets checking for mammry lumps any more than I need them to go for checking of any other sorts of lumps.

Pyo is a risk yes but extremely rare after the first season.

It is a surgery of convienience if done before 12 to 18 months of age. I am not necessarily saying that is a bad thing but it is what it is. I have recently had my nearly 6 you bitch done. she has had her litter, she had some issues so I didn't want her to have more and yes Pyo in a bitch her age is a higher risk.

I also cannot understand why altered growth of a dog/bitch is not an issue if it is a pet? I would want my pet looking as it should and as it parents and siblings look.

[Dame Aussie]

Can someone please explain to me that why for a "pet dog or bitch " is growth and development considered not to be an issue ?

Really, do pet people deserve a dog or bitch that fails to reach full maturity and development just because it's a "pet" . Does the animal itself deserve what comes with desexing prior to maturity, just because it's a "pet" ?

Let's make no mistake, desexing is an operation of convenience for most.

Absolutely. Convenient as in less possibility of trips to the vet for mammary lumps and no risk of pyometra. I'm sold. Hell, if they'd desex me I'd be all over that as well. Desexing early as someone has already pointed out prevents accidental matings. Nothing affects a bitches development quite like having pups while she still is one.

Sorry but rubbish. I have had bitches desexed younger and older I do not have to take them to the vets checking for mammry lumps any more than I need them to go for checking of any other sorts of lumps.

Pyo is a risk yes but extremely rare after the first season.

It is a surgery of convienience if done before 12 to 18 months of age. I am not necessarily saying that is a bad thing but it is what it is. I have recently had my nearly 6 you bitch done. she has had her litter, she had some issues so I didn't want her to have more and yes Pyo in a bitch her age is a higher risk.

I also cannot understand why altered growth of a dog/bitch is not an issue if it is a pet? I would want my pet looking as it should and as it parents and siblings look.

Agree.

Its like having your reproductive organs removed as a child. That would affect your development quite a bit, no?!

[D'smum]

Funny. We've been misdiagnosing a lot of things as pyometras then. And mostly in old dogs, ive never seen one in the first season. And i dont really believe in comparing desexing a dog with removing childs organs, sorry. I respect your right to an opinion but i know what i see and respectfully beg to differ.

[WreckitWhippet]

Can someone please explain to me that why for a "pet dog or bitch " is growth and development considered not to be an issue ?

Really, do pet people deserve a dog or bitch that fails to reach full maturity and development just because it's a "pet" . Does the animal itself deserve what comes with desexing prior to maturity, just because it's a "pet" ?

Let's make no mistake, desexing is an operation of convenience for most.

Absolutely. Convenient as in less possibility of trips to the vet for mammary lumps and no risk of pyometra. I'm sold. Hell, if they'd desex me I'd be all over that as well. Desexing early as someone has already pointed out prevents accidental matings. Nothing affects a bitches development quite like having pups while she still is one.

Sorry but rubbish. I have had bitches desexed younger and older I do not have to take them to the vets checking for mammry lumps any more than I need them to go for checking of any other sorts of lumps.

Pyo is a risk yes but extremely rare after the first season.

It is a surgery of convienience if done before 12 to 18 months of age. I am not necessarily saying that is a bad thing but it is what it is. I have recently had my nearly 6 you bitch done. she has had her litter, she had some issues so I didn't want her to have more and yes Pyo in a bitch her age is a higher risk.

I also cannot understand why altered growth of a dog/bitch is not an issue if it is a pet? I would want my pet looking as it should and as it parents and siblings look.

It's not just about growing up to look as it should, but to be fit for function. Longer limbs, straight stifles, an increased rate of HD in desexed males and of course spey incontinence in bitches.

I certainly believe in the speying of bitches when they have fully matured.

I don't buy into mentality that every bitch owner is an irresponsible one or cannot manage one season ( if they choose to) without an accidental mating.

[bridgie_cat]

A couple of things:

The reason it is recommended before the first season is because with each season your risk of mammary tumours increases. This is just one type of tumour your dog can get but it is a particularly common one. The biggest increase is with the first season (from memory about 25% increased risk), then you get a bit more of an increase with the next couple... interestingly if you leave them for 3 seasons after that point there is not a big change in their risks of mammary tumours compared to dogs desexed later in life.

But that only considers one health issue. Of course accidental pregnancy and pyo are always a risk even if you wait until 2 or 3yrs and you will not get much more benefit as far as mammary tumours are concerned.

Re growth - it does not stunt growth. Infact, it is quite the opposite. As sex hormones are required to CLOSE growth plates (well defined area at each end of a bone where the majority of growth occurs and stops when the eventually "close"), this happens at a very slightly slower rate if you desex prior to their closure (around 11-13months) - and you may get slightly more growth in long bones (which have later closing plates than shorter bones). It is considered more often in the US where very sport focused people will often wait until 13months to ensure they are not affecting the growth plates and causing very subtle changes in a dog that will be jumping and running a lot in its life.

You can desex when you want to but the recommendation of 6 months is based on the mammary tumour statistics and to avoid accidental pregnancies. Pyo is always a risk if there is a uterus there but certainly is more likely in older intact females. With my dogs I am inclined to wait for the 13month point to allow normal growth plate closure.

[ness]

As a dog sport person (I have show line BCs) I chose to wait with my second dog until after her first season - honestly I am not so convinced it made a huge difference. While its only a sample size of 2 my first BC girl got to 13 perfectly sound before doing a cruciate. She was desexed at 6 months and well before a first season.

My youngster was desexed after her first season (~13 months) and has had a huge run of orthopedic related problems. I guess it would depend if you are able to manage a bitch in season I am certainly not convinced of it being a necessity.

[Dame Aussie]

Funny. We've been misdiagnosing a lot of things as pyometras then. And mostly in old dogs, ive never seen one in the first season. And i dont really believe in comparing desexing a dog with removing childs organs, sorry. I respect your right to an opinion but i know what i see and respectfully beg to differ.

My point was that those organs are involved in the correct development of any animal. I prefer not to remove them unless absolutely necessary.

You were the one who brought people into it.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Aussie3

[D'smum]

I joke about desexing myself because i dont like kids and in case it matters i am now considered fully grown at 5"2 and 33 years old. I never suggested routine removal en masse of childrens organs. Bridgie-cat said everything perfectly. I'll be leaving it at that :-)

[Aleksandra 157]

Very interesting replies.My keeshound was speyed when I got her at six months and Lulu my spitz I had done after her first season.Absolutely no problems with either dog,in this area.Jesse my 11month collie is to be neutered soon.I am hoping it will calm him down but have varying opinions from ...he'll be a different dog to ...it will make no difference to his behaviour.These from vet and professional trainer.Would really appreciate opinions on this.... :)

[moosepup]

Very interesting replies.My keeshound was speyed when I got her at six months and Lulu my spitz I had done after her first season.Absolutely no problems with either dog,in this area.Jesse my 11month collie is to be neutered soon.I am hoping it will calm him down but have varying opinions from ...he'll be a different dog to ...it will make no difference to his behaviour.These from vet and professional trainer.Would really appreciate opinions on this.... :)

Nacho was mental before his op. Nacho is still mental after his op. :laugh: