Rehoming Naughty Dog With/without Contract?

[curly]

Here's a (fairly) quick question;

If a dog is to be rehomed because it killed a sheep or 2 (or newborn lambs, I believe), should it go with a contract stating "the new owner is aware the dog has killed livestock"?

Mind you, this is not my dog. It lives in the country. Wants to move to the city.

Someone was adamantly telling me you shouldn't put it in writing. If you write it down, you'll be responsible if it kills again, because you knew... or something like that.

I'd think the thing to do is make absolutely sure the new owners knows the situation, and you have proof you told them.

Thoughts?

[Steve]

If you dont put it in writing then you can be had for not telling them and ethically I cant imagine why you wouldnt - if they know then they can ensure the dog is not in that position again and they cant come back and say they didnt know - though if it is declared dangerous you cant rehome at all in some states.

[juice]

can you just tell them?

there would be many dogs living in surburbia who would kill livestock, so I don't see how its an issue, provided the new owners know.

[Loving my Oldies]

Agree, juice, but in today's litigious climate, seeing that this dog has already killed, my feelings are that all possibilities and probabilities should be covered. That means all details in a contract and signatures with appropriate dates.

[keasarge]

Cough I dont know this could be me but to me a naughty dog chews up slippers or pees on carpet this dog has killed. in the city there are cats. Rabbits small dogs... small child ?

[pie]

Plenty of dogs would kill a cat given the opportunity - and animal aggression is far different to human/child aggression!

[juice]

Really, a small child, get a grip!!!

my dogs would and have killed a cat,rabbits and birds, they are not child killers though.

[mumof4girls]

Yeah one of mine would kill a chicken but not a child ..

I would tell them as a lot of people in suburbia have chickens or guinea pigs ..

[persephone]

I would hope the new owners are fully away of this dog's prey drive ..

and that the dog is able to adjust to life in a backyard , with all the noises/stresses and happenings of city life.

[~Anne~]

I'm not up on the legislation these days. Two things come to mind though.

1. If the declaration is made in writing, can the dog be deemed 'dangerous' and therefore not eligible for re-homing?

2. Is it different in each state and which state laws does the dog come under.?

[mixeduppup]

There's a big difference between dogs that HAVE killed and dogs that WOULD kill. Dogs that have killed have found in self rewarding and will almost definitely want and try to do ti again if they have the opportunity so rehoming them would mean full disclosure and making sure the new owners could handle a dog that has that much prey drive.

[persephone]

There are things like age/breed etc to consider as well , if there is some sort of 'contract' What would be in a contract such as this?

Or is it purely to confirm that both parties are aware of what the dog has done?

*thinking whether newborn lamb killing is because of movementt/chase, or because of the scent /blood * It would be interesting to learn what actually transpired ... a lot of dogs find newborns pretty attractive .... or they can also be seen as something foreign .....their movement/noise/scent ...

So .. is the dog a 'stock killer' , did it dispatch some oddities it found , was it looking for food... or ?????

Edited October 22, 2013 by persephone

[keasarge]

A frustrated dog though with high prey drive thats not being meet take it to a park kids running... isn't that far fetched. Full disclosure and signed saying the new owners take full responsibility. The law says any dog that aggressively attacks a human or another animal causing injury or death should be declared dangerous.

[pirate]

When we had sheep on our property one of our old dogs used to bring the dead lambs back and put them at the back door. There were no bite marks on them, the crows killed a few. He didn't kill them he just bought them home and we buried them under the rose bushes.

[Steph M]

Cough I dont know this could be me but to me a naughty dog chews up slippers or pees on carpet this dog has killed. in the city there are cats. Rabbits small dogs... small child ?

Yeah our whippet x would eat a rabbit in a second, but loves our cats and loves kids. I've seen her tear off after a rabbit before and had no doubt he would have been lunch had she not responded to a very serious, very loud 'LEAVE IT'

(got lucky that she did!)

I certainly wouldn't be giving up the cats or muzzling her around kids because of this.

[melzawelza]

It's a tricky one.

What I'm saying is based on NSW - I have no idea where you are.

Killing livestock will earn you a Dangerous Dog declaration in NSW. A dog that is Declared dangerous cannot be rehomed and has strict keeping requirements.

However a dog has to be declared by Council for those restrictions to be binding and able to be actioned on.

If it's not reported, there is no obligation to keep the dog as a dangerous dog, and the dog can be rehomed.

Putting something like this in writing could certainly earn a Declaration if it got in the hands of a Council Ranger that felt the need to do so.

You could quite possibly also be opening yourself up to liability if it does it again.

On the flip side, you could open yourself up to liability if it does it again and you DIDN'T tell them! There is the the moral obligation of fully disclosing what you know of the dog's temperament to an adopter, so that they are able to be the best possible owners for that dog, fully informed.

There is no right or wrong answer, it's shaky.

Edited October 22, 2013 by melzawelza

[Steph M]

You'd be mad not to at least mention it. I'd certainly like to know that before taking on a dog, what if the couple want to move to the country in a year or so and run a hobby farm? Would like to know that before taking on a dog who isn't a fan of sheep.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Steph M

[*kirty*]

My second great dane was given to me because she had killed a sheep. She had escaped with another dog and Im guessing they got really wound up and pack mentality kicked in. When she came to me, she lived withsmall dogs, cats, rabbits and a small child and never showed any signss of aggression. As pers said, they circumstances do matter.

[persephone]

chasing sheep ..and biting /eating a newborn lamb are a bit different - I've seen both enough times over the years ..and as I said - it would be interesting to know what happened exactly .

I've seen dogs snap at and grab a wobbly newborn lamb as it blundered up to them - they had never ever thought about killing sheep .... We have dogs who need muzzling around sheep ..as they are used to holding /biting goats ..and sometimes cannot switch off ..

Dogs can tell the difference :) Most of our dogs will happily kill feral animals ..but share beds/food with our cats & chooks ...

[curly]

Wow! Lots of responses. I don't know the details - as I said, it's not my dog. As far as I get it, the dog lived in the city, moved to the country, is not adequately fenced/supervised, and killed a sheep or lamb. I think it was a brand new, newborn lamb. I could see it happening easily, actually. It's small, squeaky, fluffy, bloody, the dog grabs and shakes, just like a toy. Only he did it again a few weeks later. He's otherwise very gentle, friendly, socialised and has at least basic training.

I didn't think of the dangerous dog legislation. I was thinking you'd have to be absolutely sure the new owners understood to keep away from livestock, small fluffy animals, poultry, and small children (just in case - it's a big, active dog).

Plenty of stock killers get moved to the city, and plenty of dogs never get free play where they can do damage. Maybe you'd go for a muzzle in the dog park, just in case. I'm just wondering, what's the best advice to pass on to the owners?