Cosmolo Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 You have a large breed dog who has hip and elbow dysplasia- both elbows, both hips, one side worse than the other. Dog was initially diagnosed by specialist at around 6 months, had x rays since then as an adult to confirm- dog is nearly 6 years old now. Earlier this year the dog snaps one cruciate ligament, goes has surgery (TPLO) and a long recovery which although went well was slow and difficult and put alot of pressure on his other already messed up joints. Dog is put on ongoing, long term Tramadol (opiate pain relief) and carprieve (non steroidal anti inflammatory) to try to reduce the pain/ discomfort in his hips and elbows- the cruciate seems to have healed well and the pain doesn't come from there. Dog can no longer run/ swim at the beach or park without being in pain afterwards even on the maximum dose of medication. Can do short walks and very gentle, short runs and experiences less pain but still struggles to get up on to couches etc without assistance- ie, it's not a pain free existence. Is starting to look almost bow legged- like his conformation is changing to compensate for the pain. Dog is very boisterous and active and loves to run and play- lives with two other dogs- also VERY stoic so can be difficult to gage his pain level. Then dog snaps the other cruciate ligament.. What would you do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 if he were mine , he would have had his wings to fly without pain . As he is not mine , all I can do is send thoughts of strength and love ....at very stressful time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixeduppup Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 I would PTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*kirty* Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 I'm so sorry this has happened Tamara, and I'm guessing you already think you know what needs to happen now. For what its worth, seeing as he isnt allowed to be very active now anyway, you could try resting him for 6 weeks and see if it settles down. Maisie had surgery on her first cruciate but when the second one went, I opted for medical management. She can live a normal life, just have to make sure she doesn't overdo it. Mind you she spent an hour at the beach yesterday and pulled up fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 (edited) Dog is put on ongoing, long term Tramadol (opiate pain relief) and carprieve (non steroidal anti inflammatory) to try to reduce the pain/ discomfort in his hips and elbows- the cruciate seems to have healed well and the pain doesn't come from there. Dog can no longer run/ swim at the beach or park without being in pain afterwards even on the maximum dose of medication. Can do short walks and very gentle, short runs and experiences less pain but still struggles to get up on to couches etc without assistance- ie, it's not a pain free existence. I There's the quality of life score... even before the other cruciate ligament. Says it all IMO. Never easy when you're the owner. But that's my criterion.... quality of life score plus fact the condition can only worsen. Edited October 20, 2013 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ams Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 if he were mine , he would have had his wings to fly without pain . As he is not mine , all I can do is send thoughts of strength and love ....at very stressful time. Pers has said exactly how I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted October 20, 2013 Author Share Posted October 20, 2013 Thanks Kirty- how heavy is Maisie? The specialist said last time that no surgery wasn't an option.. I will go and see my vet tomorrow, someone has suggested stem cell therapy too so i guess we should look into that. Neither the specialist or my vets have suggested it as an option before. The dogs best interest versus my selfish and quite desperate need to have him stay with me for a long time is really hard. He is really special. And having lost 2 dogs in the last few months the thought of losing another is just.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Hugs Cosmolo. Its always hard to know and hard to make that call especially when an otherwise active dog is in pain a lot of the time. Walking a similar line with Kenz but not quite as bad as yours. She still has good days but on the bad days the pain meds aren't enough and its heart breaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted October 20, 2013 Author Share Posted October 20, 2013 He is normally such a happy dog. In the mornings he knows when i am awake before i even open my eyes and he is at the side of my bed to say hi. This morning he stayed on his bed until i got up and went to him- he has never done that before.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coogie Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Really sorry to read this Cosmolo, I remember you posting about the first cruciate and struggling with what to do. It was obvious then he is very special to you. I know this may be impossible because of the closeness, but is there anyway you can step "outside" for even a second? For instance if he was a client's dog and you knew all you do, what would your honest ,heartfelt advice be? Hoping the vet can offer something tomorrow to either give you hope or help you decide. Such an awful place to be,wishing you strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipsqueak Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 He is normally such a happy dog. In the mornings he knows when i am awake before i even open my eyes and he is at the side of my bed to say hi. This morning he stayed on his bed until i got up and went to him- he has never done that before.. You know doubt trust your specialist, but is it possible to perhaps seek a second opinion from another specialist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayla1 Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Just wondering if another type of nsaid, or a strong cortisone like dexamethasone, would provide greater pain relief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Lots of people still enjoy life despite a lot of pain. Some people want to die because of their pain (emotional or physical or both) I think your dog still enjoys life - still has appetite and enthusiasm. So it comes down to ongoing quality of life and enthusiasm and how deep your pockets are. There are such things as dog wheel chairs, and dog leg braces. Some of these things are insanely expensive. Some you could maybe persuade a human prosthesis maker or ortho pod or brace maker to have a go at, for not much - just to see what is possible. http://www.handicappedpets.com/ or http://www.orthopets.com/galleries.html Today I felt guilty / bad because an old scruffy man at the traffic lights asked me for a cigarette - and I don't smoke and had nothing to give him - not even change - cos it is all locked in the boot where I can't get at it without turning my car off. Why did I feel bad? I would have felt bad if I gave him a cigarette too. No win there. So the point of that story is - how you feel about seeing your dog in pain may not relate to how your dog feels. At least you're thinking about it. Another short vent... lady at the beach this morning with an old dog whose back end was not working at all well - called her dog lazy because it would not walk. To me - it looked in pain, and too hot - it was a hot day and the dog was panting a lot. She said it didn't want to go home. I'm thinking it's at the end of a walk that is slightly too long. And she offered her dog reacting to my dog - standing up and trying to drive my dog off - as a sign of her dog being fine, despite the back hips, ankles and toes not working properly. Personally I would still take a dog like that for walk but I'd get it all wet or kitted out in a cool coat or something. And I wouldn't expect it to walk so far on a hot day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*kirty* Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 Maisie is 20kg, a fair bit smaller than your boy. However she is probably a lot more active. She was quite lame and sore for the first two weeks and wason Tramadol and Rimadyl. Now she just gets glucosamine and sashas blend, and Rimadyl if she has a big day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 I would give him his wings as hard as it would be, and I know how very hard that decision is, sometimes it is simply the greatest gift we can give them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted October 20, 2013 Author Share Posted October 20, 2013 I'd never go down the wheelchair type paths. He would absolutely hate it. We've gone through a number of other drugs- all worked for a time and then stopped working hence moving to different things. We could go and see another specialist I guess but there is something to be said for speaking with the vets you have a good relationship with I feel. Kirty the tramadol and carprieve have made no difference yesterday and today- he is still on three legs. Yes he still has enthusiasm but being high drive his pain threshold increases whenever he is playing/ running/ swimming and he bounces around- then pays for it dearly later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 if he were mine , he would have had his wings to fly without pain . As he is not mine , all I can do is send thoughts of strength and love ....at very stressful time. I agree with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 I could tell you what I would do. Which is different from what other people have suggested but really it is about what you want to do. What choice you want to make. Big hugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted October 20, 2013 Author Share Posted October 20, 2013 I don't know how to make the decision either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 ..I weigh it all up.... ( but everyones' scales are different) Quality of life ... Amount of pain Pain free time Limitations Things to be enjoyed without pain V My need to keep animal with me My stress levels watching animal struggle My wish for animal to be painfree My ability to care for animal as it ideally should be . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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